Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

It's a leading question. There were probably some racists involved. There could have been many involved. However, there could also have been very few. The question should be what other motivations might be justified in booing?

Like many here have said, the taking of the knee appears to be an empty gesture, that is pushed on to others, with social/work pressure exerted on those who don't do it. The shaming of those who don't conform to this movement. That would be a reasonable consideration for those who want to protest the taking of the knee.

Then, there are those who consider BLM to be a political movement, or that BLM has no place in Europe.. along with the association between BLM and the taking of the knee. The belief that the taking of the knee will be assumed as support for BLM... and so, people wish to protest against that.

There are many reasons for objecting to this gesture. It doesn't have to be connected with racism.. and in many cases, I suspect that those who are booing, aren't racists themselves, but feel that this has gone on long enough, with questionable results.

This thread is a good example of why many would be frustrated by those advocating anti-racism. The misrepresentation of viewpoints, the pushing of agendas, and the labeling of others as racist, simply because they have differing viewpoints. And so, I would consider it reasonable that people might want to put an end to it, and return to entertainment without the judgmental attitudes.

I asked earlier what was the purpose of the taking the knee... and the most I got was that it was done to raise awareness. Well... when does it end, if people are now fully aware?

Danzy

Tell me how wrote: »

You are close to 100% wrong on this.

I think you'll find the ideals of those previously within the confines of religion are much more closely aligned with the uber conservative amongst us today.

Resistance to abortion, resistance to SSM, suspicions about immigration, disbelieve in climate change. All views much more commonly held with those who currently or previously prescribed to various religious orders.

Did you even read what I wrote.

Just went off on a tangent.

MrStuffins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a leading question. There were probably some racists involved. There could have been many involved. However, there could also have been very few. The question should be what other motivations might be justified in booing?

No, that's not the question at all.

The question is do you really believe there was no booing with racist intentions?

I see you have written a novel to try jump through as many hoops as you can in order to try deny and deflect from the fact that there was racist booing, referencing BLM left, right and centre even though I never mentioned them.

That was exactly what I expected. Predictable doesn't begin to explain it

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

The question is do you really believe there was no booing with racist intentions?

Yes, I believe that some of those involved in the booing had racist beliefs.

I see you have written a novel to try jump through as many hoops as you can in order to try deny the fact that there was racist booing, referencing BLM left, right and centre even though I never mentioned them.

That was exactly what I expected. Predictable doesn't begin to explain it

I didn't write anything to jump through any hoops. The problem with your views is that you see everything through a lens of Black/white. You refuse to accept anything that doesn't conform to that viewpoint... and I have tried repeatedly to meet you halfway, but you have repeatedly refused to do so.

It is simply impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you, since you don't place any value in considering other people's perspectives.

BattleCorp

MrStuffins wrote: »

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

It would be a naive person who thinks nobody in the crowd has racist motivations. In a similar manner, it would be a mistaken person who thinks that everyone in the crowd had racist motivations.

Like I said, I personally wouldn't boo anybody taking the knee but I see it as an empty gesture at this stage and I reckon many of the sports people 'taking the knee' are being forced to do it, and that's why I am leaning towards being against 'taking the knee'.

Kapernick (I think it was him) has to be praised for starting it off, and it achieved its aims in highlighting the fact that many black people don't get fair play from some US cops but it's been twisted and distorted at this stage and it's effectiveness has gone.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They don't haunt every waking moment of my life, but they sure as hell have made my life exceptionally harder since the death of George Floyd.

I oppose BLM, I oppose racism. Yet by doing the first, idiots believe I can't do the second.

How have BLM made your life harder? Aside from the amount of time you've dedicated to whinging about them online

Larbre34

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The fans want politics to stay out of Sports, it is really that simple. The Irish players came off as very ill informed about the Marxist BLM organization, at least the Hungarians knew what was up.

Thats a huge part of it alright. But those fans aren't neutral, not in contemporary Hungary.

Budapest was as much about fascist ultra nationalist tendancies versus a perceived demonstration of marxist socialist ideals.

Such is the outcome of the polarised politics of this generation.

Bobblehats

BattleCorp wrote: »

Kapernick (I think it was him) has to be praised for starting it off, and it achieved its aims in highlighting the fact that many black people don't get fair play from some US cops but it's been twisted and distorted at this stage and it's effectiveness has gone.

In the USA it may have meant something but out here it is a flouting of the rules that is leading to division of same sets of players and fans which may lead to not just disruption of team performance on the field but fighting amongst themselves. In the name of football, and unity this political posturing on the field of play has to stop

Gatling

Bobblehats wrote: »

In the USA it may have meant something but out here it is a flouting of the rules that is leading to division of same sets of players and fans which may lead to not just disruption of team performance on the field but fighting amongst themselves. In the name of football, and unity this political posturing on the field of play has to stop

Totally agree with this , we've enough issues in the game as it is we don't need this nonsense , considering the run of form the team is currently going through , bringing this ****e into the dressing room can only make things worse

Billy Mays

Brian? wrote: »

How have BLM made your life harder? Aside from the amount of time you've dedicated to whinging about them online

exceptionally harder

Bobblehats

Gatling wrote: »

Totally agree with this , we've enough issues in the game as it is we don't need this nonsense , considering the run of form the team is currently going through , bringing this ****e into the dressing room can only make things worse

In football; as in life.

- when the seagulls follow the trawler it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea….

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

Honest question:

Are there actually people here who believe that none of those people who were booing were doing so with racial motivations?

Oh absolutely not. I'm 100% sure there were racists who hate people taking the knee.

What have you learned from this question?

Danzy

Brian? wrote: »

How have BLM made your life harder? Aside from the amount of time you've dedicated to whinging about them online

Lot of it is driven by age old class tension.

The rich look down on the middle class as wannabes. The working class dislike them as affected holier than thou snobs.

The middle class activists despise the working class for not fulfilling the destiny assigned them.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

How have BLM made your life harder? Aside from the amount of time you've dedicated to whinging about them online

Because Brian, I am the father of a child who happens not to be white.

With the emergence of BLM I am in the unhappy position of her not being black enough to be a victim and not white enough to have privilege.

I teach her to just be her, not a victim and not a recipient of privilege. Just to be a good person.

Remarkably she gets more upset at people who assume she is a victim because of her skin colour. I can bat away racists for being racists that we all oppose.

It's harder to explain to her why white people see her as a victim who needs protection.

Either way, anyone who judges my daughter on her skin is a ****.

And BLM have made my life harder by asserting that my daughter's life is harder because of her skin colour.

It isn't.

Danzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Because Brian, I am the father of a child who happens not to be white.

With the emergence of BLM I am in the unhappy position of her not being black enough to be a victim and not white enough to have privilege.

I teach her to just be her, not a victim and not a recipient of privilege. Just to be a good person.

Remarkably she gets more upset at people who assume she is a victim because of her skin colour. I can bat away racists for being racists that we all oppose.

It's harder to explain to her why white people see her as a victim who needs protection.

Either way, anyone who judges my daughter on her skin is a ****.

And BLM have made my life harder by asserting that my daughter's life is harder because of her skin colour.

It isn't.

They won't care because it's about their needs and wants, the need for a cause and belief in Life. Their need to be see themselves as better,purer than others.

They might actually despise you more for your heartfelt and frankly troubling post.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because Brian, I am the father of a child who happens not to be white.

With the emergence of BLM I am in the unhappy position of her not being black enough to be a victim and not white enough to have privilege.

I teach her to just be her, not a victim and not a recipient of privilege. Just to be a good person.

Remarkably she gets more upset at people who assume she is a victim because of her skin colour. I can bat away racists for being racists that we all oppose.

It's harder to explain to her why white people see her as a victim who needs protection.

Either way, anyone who judges my daughter on her skin is a ****.

And BLM have made my life harder by asserting that my daughter's life is harder because of her skin colour.

It isn't.

BLM haven't made you or your daughters life harder. They've drawn attention to a very real issue with, very real problems. That have absolutely nothing to do with how someone who in Ireland is treated.

I really don't see how drawing attention to police violence disproportionately effecting black people in the US means they think everyone with black skin is a victim.

No one is telling your daughter she's a victim because of the colour of her skin. That's you consistently misinterpreting the philosophy of the BLM movement. Bizarre carry on

Fr D Maugire

Deleted User wrote: »

Because Brian, I am the father of a child who happens not to be white.

With the emergence of BLM I am in the unhappy position of her not being black enough to be a victim and not white enough to have privilege.

I teach her to just be her, not a victim and not a recipient of privilege. Just to be a good person.

Remarkably she gets more upset at people who assume she is a victim because of her skin colour. I can bat away racists for being racists that we all oppose.

It's harder to explain to her why white people see her as a victim who needs protection.

Either way, anyone who judges my daughter on her skin is a ****.

And BLM have made my life harder by asserting that my daughter's life is harder because of her skin colour.

It isn't.

Whilst, not quite the same. I would have people close enough to me from a Black US family who do not support BLM or taking a knee, for similar reasons to what you explained. They see it as playing the victim whilst they want to stand for themselves. The father did not come from a wealthy family, but availed of an opportunity to join the police in the US. His other siblings chose a different path.

He went on to have a successful career and provide for his family, but has no contact with his siblings as they delved into criminality, yet they all came from the same family. Have they suffered from racism? of course, but they take the attitude that there will always be assholes and just get on with it because they view playing the victim as holding them back.

Danzy

Lol Brian.

Satire is not dead.

ArthurDayne

BattleCorp wrote: »

It would be a naive person who thinks nobody in the crowd has racist motivations. In a similar manner, it would be a mistaken person who thinks that everyone in the crowd had racist motivations.

Like I said, I personally wouldn't boo anybody taking the knee but I see it as an empty gesture at this stage and I reckon many of the sports people 'taking the knee' are being forced to do it, and that's why I am leaning towards being against 'taking the knee'.

Kapernick (I think it was him) has to be praised for starting it off, and it achieved its aims in highlighting the fact that many black people don't get fair play from some US cops but it's been twisted and distorted at this stage and it's effectiveness has gone.

I feel like you’re touching on the distinguishing thing here though, there is a marked difference between not liking / agreeing with something and actually going as far as to jeer at it.

Personally, I think the whole ‘taking the knee’ thing has probably had its day — as there does come a point where these kinds of thing lose their effectiveness, particularly where the gesture becomes less about meaning and more about expectation (though not exactly analogous, I guess an example would be the Poppy). I do also believe that there is an issue with selective protesting in a sport where, for example, many players will happily take part in a World Cup in a country where it is illegal to be gay.

Having said that though, despite those misgivings — I would never jeer at people doing it, nor lose sight of the fact that my misgivings do not vitiate the meaning or good motivations behind it . . . nor my ability to be respectful. What the protest is aiming to highlight and achieve is, after all, a good thing .... and for the black players in particular and players of other ethnicities who have undoubtedly suffered horrendous racially motivated verbal abuse (and even physical abuse via missiles thrown onto the pitch, like bananas), there is undoubtedly a sincere motivation.

Actually going as far as to boo it? That seems very pointed to me, and it’s hard not to see it as sinister.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

BLM haven't made you or your daughters life harder. They've drawn attention to a very real issue with, very real problems. That have absolutely nothing to do with how someone who in Ireland is treated.

Right. Why are the Irish footballers taking the knee then?

jackboy

Brian? wrote: »

I really don't see how drawing attention to police violence disproportionately effecting black people in the US means they think everyone with black skin is a victim.

It’s a pretty bizarre thing for the Irish soccer team to be getting involved with though.

Fandymo

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Except they do, when the young lad was unfortunately shot in the stand-off with police in Dublin, the protests were very much focused around BLM as if the incident was some sort of extension of police brutality in the US. That was the card they were clearly playing. There was a piece on BBC recently implying the same thing, yet would the BBC have come to Ireland if it had been a non-black person shot by the police? Is there an ongoing issue between black people in Ireland and the police? If not, then BLM is filling them with the idea that there is.

Their lie filled (George was unarmed now) poster looking for support at a protest at the inquest also promotes BLM.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

BLM haven't made you or your daughters life harder. They've drawn attention to a very real issue with, very real problems. That have absolutely nothing to do with how someone who in Ireland is treated.

I really don't see how drawing attention to police violence disproportionately effecting black people in the US means they think everyone with black skin is a victim.

No one is telling your daughter she's a victim because of the colour of her skin. That's you consistently misinterpreting the philosophy of the BLM movement. Bizarre carry on

Why the **** should the Hungarian team be drawing attention to police violence in America? Or any team in Europe?

The Ugandan police were shown to have committed a drive by shooting during protests that were held there last year or the year before. Why was there not outrage at that event in your opinion? Why was noone puttting there Instagram story black? Or engaging in other types of fisher price activism?

Tell me how

jackboy wrote: »

It’s a pretty bizarre thing for the Irish soccer team to be getting involved with though.

Republic of Ireland youth star Tyreik Wright targeted by racists

West Brom report racist abuse to police after Ireland's Callum Robinson is targeted

Dundee outraged over online abuse of Irish striker Afolabi

Ireland star McGoldrick the latest footballer to receive 'disgusting' racist abuse on social media

Absolutely bizarre.................how some people are still trying to push the narrative that kneeling by footballers in Europe today is solely about events in America. Makes it easier to dismiss it of course so why be burdened with the truth.

And for anyone who wants to come in 'whatabouting' in terms of James McClean, I would bet no one who is supportive of players kneeling now felt he shouldn't have gotten better support or response from the authorities when he was targeted as he was.

Fr D Maugire

Tell me how wrote: »

Republic of Ireland youth star Tyreik Wright targeted by racists

West Brom report racist abuse to police after Ireland's Callum Robinson is targeted

Dundee outraged over online abuse of Irish striker Afolabi

Ireland star McGoldrick the latest footballer to receive 'disgusting' racist abuse on social media

Absolutely bizarre.................how some people are still trying to push the narrative that kneeling by footballers in Europe today is solely about events in America. Makes it easier to dismiss it of course so why be burdened with the truth.

And for anyone who wants to come in 'whatabouting' in terms of James McClean, I would bet no one who is supportive of players kneeling now felt he shouldn't have gotten better support or response from the authorities when he was targeted as he was.

What do all those cases have in common? Online abuse. Now that is not to justify it. But what does taking a knee achieve against online racism or online bullying for that matter.

Surely if people wish online abuse to stop, then the target should be those platforms who allow it. A good start would be for all those sportspeople with their big followings to set the tone and hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. Boycott the media platforms, Go protest at their headquarters, imagine the England footballers staging a protest outside twitter headquarters or go protest at Government buildings and keep on the MPs backs to get something done. Go directly to the people that can make a difference.

jackboy

Tell me how wrote: »

Absolutely bizarre.................how some people are still trying to push the narrative that kneeling by footballers in Europe today is solely about events in America. Makes it easier to dismiss it of course so why be burdened with the truth.

I haven’t a clue what it’s about really but I can spot a mile away that it is a fad that footballers are being publicly pressurised to comply with.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right. Why are the Irish footballers taking the knee then?

Why do they say they’re doing it? It’s a question for them, not me.

I don’t care if they take the knee. I don’t think booong them is ok though.

Brian?

jackboy wrote: »

It’s a pretty bizarre thing for the Irish soccer team to be getting involved with though.

The Irish football team aren’t involved in BLM. They are expressing opposition to racism. Which is fair enough, given that plenty of them have been subject to racist abuse. As described above.

I’m open to correction if I’m wrong here, honestly. But in my mind taking a knee at football matches i not showing support for the US BLM movement.

Brian?

Danzy wrote: »

Lol Brian.

Satire is not dead.

Is this supposed to be clever ?

cdeb

Brian? wrote: »

BLM haven't made you or your daughters life harder.

No one is telling your daughter she's a victim because of the colour of her skin.

How is it you know more about the poster's close family than the poster themself?

It seems rather arrogant for you to wave away their concerns when you must know practically nothing about them?