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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #1262
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    BLM haven't made you or your daughters life harder. They've drawn attention to a very real issue with, very real problems. That have absolutely nothing to do with how someone who in Ireland is treated.

    Except it does, because the assumption is that whatever Black people are experiencing in the US, must also exist here in Ireland or the remainder of Europe. That the US is not unique in how it has treated Black people, and instead, this is a common treatment of Black people in predominately White nations.

    The question is whether you want racial equality or not... Do you want an equal society where the color of someone's skin is not important, or do you want it to be a integral part of their identity...? because BLM, or rather their advocates want to make everything about racism or discrimination.

    There's no chance to deal with everyone equally because the expectation is that Black people be recognised as Black people, and they must be treated carefully. You don't get this with Asians who live in the West. There's no tiptoeing around their status.. but with the near constant demands for recognition about racism and discrimination, there is that expectation that we tiptoe around the issues. That we must constantly be aware of the issues, acknowledge them, and extend our support.
    I really don't see how drawing attention to police violence disproportionately effecting black people in the US means they think everyone with black skin is a victim.

    Because you're assuming that the only effect of BLM is that people will focus on police violence... nothing remains focused on an original movement, when you have so many different voices all demanding that this or that is recognised, and dealt with. BLM is now so much more than a reaction to police brutality.


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    #1263
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,461 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    The Scotland national team won't kneel at the euros.

    Are they a bunch of racists now too or perhaps they understand it's links to a terrorist organization.


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    #1264
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Fr D Maugire wrote: »
    What do all those cases have in common? Online abuse. Now that is not to justify it. But what does taking a knee achieve against online racism or online bullying for that matter.

    Surely if people wish online abuse to stop, then the target should be those platforms who allow it. A good start would be for all those sportspeople with their big followings to set the tone and hit them where it hurts, in the pocket. Boycott the media platforms, Go protest at their headquarters, imagine the England footballers staging a protest outside twitter headquarters or go protest at Government buildings and keep on the MPs backs to get something done. Go directly to the people that can make a difference.

    Did you miss the initiative a few weeks before the end of the season where footballers and their fans made a conscious decision to do just that.


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    #1265
    MisterAnarchy
    Registered Users Posts: 14,941 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Scotland's footballers have decided not to take the knee before their Euro 2020 matches.

    That means England will be the only team in their group who will take the knee.

    This knee saga could end up derailing Englands chances, its doing more harm than good.


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    #1266
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,640 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    John Doe1 do not post in this thread again

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #1267
    BringBackMick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭BringBackMick


    Have we been given an explanation why they didn’t take knee against Andorra and only did it for Hungary?

    Any journo dare ask question ?

    I might send an email at this stage as the morale high ground the FAI and media are taking on this is hysterical.


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    #1268
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    With the emergence of BLM I am in the unhappy position of her not being black enough to be a victim and not white enough to have privilege.

    So you finally admit to believing in White Privilege.


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    #1269
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 wrote: »
    The Scotland national team won't kneel at the euros.

    Are they a bunch of racists now too or perhaps they understand it's links to a terrorist organization.

    Who is accusing teams who won't take the knee of racism?


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    #1270
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    MisterAnarchy wrote: »
    Scotland's footballers have decided not to take the knee before their Euro 2020 matches.

    That means England will be the only team in their group who will take the knee.

    This knee saga could end up derailing Englands chances, its doing more harm than good.

    No coincidence that it is in the country where the biggest money and corporate control is.

    Where tickets are over priced and the middle class dominate the structures.


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    #1271
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Who is accusing teams who won't take the knee of racism?

    Well they don't care about raising awareness about racism.


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    #1272
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    cdeb wrote: »
    How is it you know more about the poster's close family than the poster themself?

    It seems rather arrogant for you to wave away their concerns when you must know practically nothing about them?

    I never said I knew anything about their family. What a weird response.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #1273
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    So you finally admit to believing in White Privilege.

    That's not what he said.

    Twist. Twist. Twist.


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    #1274
    Fr D Maugire
    Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭Fr D Maugire


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Did you miss the initiative a few weeks before the end of the season where footballers and their fans made a conscious decision to do just that.

    No I did not see the initiative because I do not pay it that much attention. Like others, I enjoy sports and just want to enjoy them whoever plays, regardless of race, sex, sexual preferences etc. The increase in politics in sport just makes me zone out, which is pretty much the opposite of what all this political commentary is aiming for. My interest in football was waning way before any of this business started so I am not up to date with all the latest happenings, but the same thing is happening in other sports I am following even though it makes very little sense to me.

    The question would be, why did it take them so long to figure that was the logical route to wake instead of kneeling in empty stadiums for a year?


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    #1275
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Well they don't care about raising awareness about racism.

    So nobody is accusing them of being racist then!

    So the post was just an excuse to throw another BLM reference in.

    Honestly lads, no wonder you think BLM are so well funded. They must save a fortune living rent free in your heads!


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    #1276
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's not what he said.

    Twist. Twist. Twist.

    The poster did reference WP, or are you suggesting they reference stuff they don't believe in?


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    #1277
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Who is accusing teams who won't take the knee of racism?

    Spend the misfortune of about 10 minutes on Sky Sports News now a days and they'll be calling everyone and anyone a racist.

    They tried to tar QPR as racist a few months ago for not kneeling even though their director of football is black and their stadium is named after a black kid who was killed in a stabbing.


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    #1278
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's not what he said.

    Twist. Twist. Twist.

    "Not white enough to have privilege" says that there is a white enough to have privilege.

    That IS what he said!


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    #1279
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Brian? wrote: »
    I never said I knew anything about their family. What a weird response.
    You very clearly challenged the OP on what their daughter was being told about the colour of their skin.

    What do you know about those comments that the OP doesn't?


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    #1280
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,198 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Spend the misfortune of about 10 minutes on Sky Sports News now a days and they'll be calling everyone and anyone a racist.

    I watch Sky Sports News every day.

    Not once have they ever called a football team racist. Not once.

    It's one to put your point across, it's another to tell blatant lies. It's not a good look


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    #1281
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Except it does, because the assumption is that whatever Black people are experiencing in the US, must also exist here in Ireland or the remainder of Europe. That the US is not unique in how it has treated Black people, and instead, this is a common treatment of Black people in predominately White nations.

    Assumption by whom? Only an idiot would think that the experience of being black in Ireland and the US are the same. The history of governmental oppression of black people is pretty recent. No such history exists in Ireland.

    The question is whether you want racial equality or not... Do you want an equal society where the color of someone's skin is not important, or do you want it to be a integral part of their identity...? because BLM, or rather their advocates want to make everything about racism or discrimination.

    There's no chance to deal with everyone equally because the expectation is that Black people be recognised as Black people, and they must be treated carefully. You don't get this with Asians who live in the West. There's no tiptoeing around their status.. but with the near constant demands for recognition about racism and discrimination, there is that expectation that we tiptoe around the issues. That we must constantly be aware of the issues, acknowledge them, and extend our support.

    Re: Asians. Yes there is. There is a massive problem with anti Asian racism in the US. It starts with assuming all Asians are the same, funnily enough.
    Because you're assuming that the only effect of BLM is that people will focus on police violence... nothing remains focused on an original movement, when you have so many different voices all demanding that this or that is recognised, and dealt with. BLM is now so much more than a reaction to police brutality.

    Thin end of a wedge argument?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #1282
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    cdeb wrote: »
    You very clearly challenged the OP on what their daughter was being told about the colour of their skin.

    What do you know about those comments that the OP doesn't?

    Jesus. Go back and read the post I was responding to and my post.

    I was responding to the point about BLM telling his daughter she’s a victim. They don’t.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #1283
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The poster did reference WP, or are you suggesting they reference stuff they don't believe in?

    Take no notice of Klaz, he has consistently show a high level of literary comprehension.


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    #1284
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The poster did reference WP, or are you suggesting they reference stuff they don't believe in?

    Reference yes. Context is important. MrStuffins changed the context within his response.

    But that should be obvious. However, I'm not too surprised you wouldn't care to acknowledge that.


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    #1285
    MisterAnarchy
    Registered Users Posts: 14,941 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Spend the misfortune of about 10 minutes on Sky Sports News now a days and they'll be calling everyone and anyone a racist.

    They tried to tar QPR as racist a few months ago for not kneeling even though their director of football is black and their stadium is named after a black kid who was killed in a stabbing.

    Its literally unwatchable these days.

    Ever since Comcast bought Sky a couple of years ago its become worse and worse with its virtue signalling.
    This is the same Comcast who announced last year that it would spend $100 million "to fight injustice and inequality against any race, ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation or ability" as part of a multi-year initiative.

    I flicked on Sky Sports News the other night and the top story was some English cricketer who made some comments on Twitter when he was 17 and there was some guy on demanding a lifetime ban for the player.
    The next story was the knee and the England footballers.
    I turned it off immediately, if I want to listen to politics I know where to go.


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    #1286
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Brian? wrote: »
    Jesus. Go back and read the post I was responding to and my post.

    I was responding to the point about BLM telling his daughter she’s a victim. They don’t.
    Again, how do you know more than the poster about comments their own daughter has been on the receiving end of?

    (And the OP didn't say BLM had directly told his daughter anything btw.)


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    #1287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    "Not white enough to have privilege" says that there is a white enough to have privilege.

    That IS what he said!

    I know what he said. I also know what you said.

    There is a difference.


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    #1288
    Fr D Maugire
    Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭Fr D Maugire


    Brian? wrote: »
    Assumption by whom? Only an idiot would think that the experience of being black in Ireland and the US are the same. The history of governmental oppression of black people is pretty recent. No such history exists in Ireland.



    Re: Asians. Yes there is. There is a massive problem with anti Asian racism in the US. It starts with assuming all Asians are the same, funnily enough.



    Thin end of a wedge argument?

    As I pointed out before, that is the exact line that the family, friends and protesters for George Nkencho took after his death. It was a police killing in the same sense of what happenes in the US and they were happy to push that narrative until someone got a hold of them and told them to cop on.

    That is what happens when you conflate systemic racism and casual racism under the umbrella of something like BLM. People look to it and assume that their situation is same as it is in the US when it clearly is not. No wonder there is so much confusion surrounding the whole taking the knee.


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    #1289
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    cdeb wrote: »
    Again, how do you know more than the poster about comments their own daughter has been on the receiving end of?

    A similar man once said that all he had to do to know a people's will was to look into his own heart.


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    #1290
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I watch Sky Sports News every day.

    Not once have they ever called a football team racist. Not once.

    It's one to put your point across, it's another to tell blatant lies. It's not a good look

    They could say it in a couched roundabout way. Not directly saying it of course, but everyone knows what it means riiight?
    Dogwhistling...

    Where have I heard that argument before??


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    #1291
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    Assumption by whom? Only an idiot would think that the experience of being black in Ireland and the US are the same. The history of governmental oppression of black people is pretty recent. No such history exists in Ireland.

    Oddly enough, I completely agree with you. Doesn't change that many advocates of BLM tend to believe it all the same.
    Re: Asians. Yes there is. There is a massive problem with anti Asian racism in the US. It starts with assuming all Asians are the same, funnily enough.

    I referenced Asians as regards to Europe/Ireland.
    Thin end of a wedge argument?

    Nope. Simply what has happened with the BLM movement. It started with regards to police brutality, and has branched out to cover all manner of perceived racist/discriminatory issues. Have you looked at their literature?


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