Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

John Doe1

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Newsflash: racism didnt stop a year ago. Plenty of it in evidence in this thread with all the thickos getting upset about players taking the knee.

Can you point out exactly the racism in the thread and maybe report it to the moderator?

You are an exemplar of the whole woke cult, no actual substance just bluster.

As a student of history, I can tell you the world will end before racism will end and no empty gestures for social media points will change that.

Retr0gamer

John Doe1 wrote: »

Even if every slur was against black people, why adopt a politicised American gesture rather than something neutral to express the same sentiment?

It was a gesture against racism. Racism isn't just an American issue. What's wrong with adopting it if it was effective and it's message pretty clear.

John Doe1 wrote: »

History shows that it is human nature that we are tribal and a little bit racist and its not going to change because Shane Duffy bends a knee.

Strawman argument. Nobody taking the knee thinks they will wipe out racism. It's a gesture to highlight the issue and getting pepe talking about it on a hope that the momentum while force some real change down the line.

Seems pretty effective at the first part so far.

Pretty sure the sativa repeal the 8th protests worked in a similar way and brought about change. That's historic evidence that protests can lead to change.

Nesta99

Irrespective of whether various anti racism campaigns/gestures, like taking a knee, are agreed with or not, one thing for sure is that UEFA have shirked responsibility in dealing with rascist incidents. To add to the issue they are not equitable in their response where the power houses of the game eg Spain get a slap on the wrist with a 20k fine for monkey chanting by the crowd (for context Dundalk FC fined 50k for 1 guy 'shadow coaching' from the the stand in recent European game and he received a ban). Bulgaria has supporters banned for the same offence. Repeat offences have happened with Spain including this example of an ongoing insidious problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/feb/07/newsstory.sport14

or this https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/05/uefa-sanctions-pape-diop-racist-monkey-chants-atletico

or the Alaves banana incident (in which he responded perfectly).

As a team if players collectively decide to highlight a campaign like Kick it Out et al they should be able to do so. Appropriate sanctions like points deductions, crowd bans etc wont stop racists being racist but it would minimise overt racism by a crowd and over time erode that mob like behaviour. Why boo taking the knee? Its a harmless 10 second gesture to highlight an issue so for me the booing highlights the need to do it and expose rascist undertones of football supporters and then demand that footballing authorities to take point on dealing with it.

Retr0gamer

John Doe1 wrote: »

Can you point out exactly the racism in the thread and maybe report it to the moderator?

You are an exemplar of the whole woke cult, no actual substance just bluster.

As a student of history, I can tell you the world will end before racism will end and no empty gestures for social media points will change that.

As I said, the thread is full of it. Might not be outright racism but plenty of racist thinking on here. You'd have to be a thicko not to see it. If you have an issue with some one showing they have a problem with racism and want to highlight that with a symbolic gesture then yes, that is textbook racist thinking. I dont make the rules.

And well done there using your advance learnings in history to come up with the statement of the obvious that we will never get rid of racism.

We maybe not ever be rid of racism and hate bit we can also work towards not tolerating it and fighting against it. If you actually have some aptitude in human history I'm sure you will know of plenty of horrendous events that happened when hate and racism were not challenged.

John Doe1

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It was a gesture against racism. Racism isn't just an American issue. What's wrong with adopting it if it was effective and it's message pretty clear.



Strawman argument. Nobody taking the knee thinks they will wipe out racism. It's a gesture to highlight the issue and getting pepe talking about it on a hope that the momentum while force some real change down the line.

Seems pretty effective at the first part so far.

Pretty sure the sativa repeal the 8th protests worked in a similar way and brought about change. That's historic evidence that protests can lead to change.

You sound like you are quite young, a decade ago when I was a unthinking college leftie I might have believed some of the same things as you (although the left has been taken over by extremists in that decade).

Exactly, racism isn't an American issue, there is racism against Armenians by Turks, racism against white people by Chinese, racism against Iraqis by Iranians so why adopt such a limiting gesture?

Change down the line? Players have been taking the knee for a year and by any metric it has not made a blind bit of difference. It just causes more division and actually gives fuel to the real neo-nazis.

Eh, equating the Irish abortion referendum with racism in world football seems a stretch, no?

Strazdas

John Doe1 wrote: »

Plenty of ethnic slurs thrown about that have nothing to do with black people. Famine Song, James McClean in an Irish context.

Even if every slur was against black people, why adopt a politicised American gesture rather than something neutral to express the same sentiment?

History shows that it is human nature that we are tribal and a little bit racist and its not going to change because Shane Duffy bends a knee.

Why not though? The racists who are doing the booing and taunting of black players (or who secretly approve of it) are going to be enraged by any type of anti-racism protest, so they clearly don't count. Is anyone else that put out by the 'knee' gesture?

Retr0gamer

I wish I was young. I definitely am not.

I'm not equating anything to abortion. Stop with the classic strawman arguments please. I'm highlighting another protest that was peaceful but was also successful.

As for taking the knee being a 'limiting' gesture? It's against racism. That includes all forms. Lots of racist people will think that it only applies to black people though but that's on them and their very narrow minded racist thinking.

Unless you mean that taking the knee isnt extreme enough to get attention. Would you think more extreme forms of protest are required rather than a peaceful one that highlights it to a global televised audience?

What are you getting at by calling it limited. And what is that opposed to?

John Doe1

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wish I was young. I definitely am not.

I'm not equating anything to abortion. Stop with the classic strawman arguments please. I'm highlighting another protest that was peaceful but was also successful.

As for taking the knee being a 'limiting' gesture? It's against racism. That includes all forms. Lots of racist people will think that it only applies to black people though but that's on them and their very narrow minded racist thinking.

Unless you mean that taking the knee isnt extreme enough to get attention. Would you think more extreme forms of protest are required rather than a peaceful one that highlights it to a global televised audience?

What are you getting at by calling it limited. And what is that opposed to?

OK then, there was Occupy Wall Street, the million man march in London to protest joining the Iraq war, Catalan Independence protests or in an Irish context protesting the Lisbon treaty which had no effect and were peaceful. (as opposed to the mostly peaceful BLM marches)

It is not exactly telegraphed to the fans that it includes all forms of racism is it? Maybe a lot of the fans agree with the sentiment but see it as being played out now, I'd imagine that would be a majority rather than the ones booing being exclusively far-right.

I understand the modern left loves a bit of the street violence but no I don't think that would be a great idea.

To the average fan, he is probably a working class person trying to escape the rigours of his everyday life and instead he is being preached to by millionaires who don't have to worry about their next paycheck. Surely you can empathise with the working class as a leftist...

Arturo Delgado

The knee gesture is a sop to BLM, a Marxist political movement, who have hijacked the anti racism agenda for themselves. It is now as bad as players giving the fascist salute in the 1930's. It needs to stop soon, as the public see it for what it is.

bewareofthedog

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You'd have to be a thicko not to see it.

The PL and Sky in particular promoted the BLM movement heavily initially but eventually stopped mentioning them because of the politics involved but you can still see the BLM banners in the empty stadiums. They kept the routine of kneeling and tried to make out it was about racism in general but kneeling will be forever associated with that group. Here's some of that groups main goals

https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism

...develop and deliver strategies for the abolition of police <- They've scratched this off their go fund me because of the back lash it received but it was there

They claim climate change is "racist" and want open borders

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/773058142133518336

They want to abolish the prison system

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/809880588106825728

I don't agree with their intimidation tactics - in the US they've been seen storming outdoor cafes and such trying to intimidate people.

Then there's the straight up chanting such as this.

You'd have to be some man child playing videos to not see it. Insults aren't nice are they? But I suppose they're acceptable when you're on the woke side. In my eyes BLM want to borderline legitimize crime and remove responsibility from the black community. They're not transparent about where any of the money goes either. What community projects have they initiated?

Black footballers have come out against kneeling pre matches, many sports have moved on. BLM is a anarchistic far left political movement which uses violence and intimidation tactics and I don't support it. If you support dismantling the capitalist system, prisons, police, having open borders etc then that's your choice but don't go around calling people thick if they don't want to go along with it. I do however support equality between all people and other anti racism organizations in sport like kickitout.

Omackeral

Burt Renaults wrote: »

At least two of the people on this thread arguing against taking the knee were banned from Boards in the past for... yes, you guessed it... racism. Tells me all I need to know, tbh.

And what about some of the more nuanced points made? Do you just pigeonhole those as bigoted comments? How about John Barnes and his input? Is he just a big old racist?

BringBackMick

This was a political statement and Ireland will likely be fined as a result

The fact Ireland did not take the knee against Andorra but took the knee against Hungary is the nail in the case really.

Keep politics out of football please

Pawwed Rig

Omackeral wrote: »

And what about some of the more nuanced points made? Do you just pigeonhole those as bigoted comments? How about John Barnes and his input? Is he just a big old racist?

It is the normal response you often get on these matters. It is easier just to call people racist than actually engage in a dialogue on the issues.

Hamsterchops

GT89 wrote: »

I can't understand why they are still taking the knee in Europe for something that happened over a year ago in the US

Agreed, and as you say, we witnessed the 'taking the knee' gesture over a year ago, and we got the message (a good message), but been there done that, so no need for it to drag on & on ....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Burt Renaults wrote: »

At least two of the people on this thread arguing against taking the knee were banned from Boards in the past for... yes, you guessed it... racism. Tells me all I need to know, tbh.

Is it possible - just throwing this out there - that they actually said somethign racist?

ThunbergsAreGo

https://www.dailywire.com/news/entire-irish-rugby-team-in-international-tournament-refuses-to-take-a-knee
Are these all racist too?

It's an empty pointless gesture, they will still be doing in 10 years time, and it will have made no difference

Odhinn

extra gravy wrote: »

Bloody Marxist footballers, whatever next!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduUFF_i1A

suicide_circus

Footballers taking the knee is like Coca Cola adopting the pride flag in June.

dmigsy

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

https://www.dailywire.com/news/entire-irish-rugby-team-in-international-tournament-refuses-to-take-a-knee
Are these all racist too?

It's an empty pointless gesture, they will still be doing in 10 years time, and it will have made no difference

My understanding of the taking of the knee is that is it is intended to increase awareness of the racism that exists in society and to drive debate, discussion, and thinking about the issue.

This thread is an example of how the gesture is working well in achieving that, even if some on here seem to think that it should be banned since the millionaire footballers have clearly aligned with radical Marxism to destroy the capitalist utopia that we all live in.

John Doe1

John Doe1 wrote: »

You sound like you are quite young, a decade ago when I was a unthinking college leftie I might have believed some of the same things as you (although the left has been taken over by extremists in that decade).

Exactly, racism isn't an American issue, there is racism against Armenians by Turks, racism against white people by Chinese, racism against Iraqis by Iranians so why adopt such a limiting gesture?

Change down the line? Players have been taking the knee for a year and by any metric it has not made a blind bit of difference. It just causes more division and actually gives fuel to the real neo-nazis.

Eh, equating the Irish abortion referendum with racism in world football seems a stretch, no?

It gives fuel to Neo Nazis to respectfully kneel? If a person is finding it divisive then it's more likely they're a part of the problem... In terms of racism in football, all you have to do is have a look at how players like Rashford have been treated by the press and on social media. His crime being incredibly charitable..

archfi

extra gravy wrote: »

I'm not claiming anything, it's been explained many times why they are doing it. The motives of those that continue to boo cannot be confused or explained away anymore.

It does not matter how many redefinitions are put forward or formulated - the subservient gesture of 'taking the knee' is now inextricably linked with a political, ideological US centric organisation and booing is the universal normal method of showing disapproval at sporting events and that is that.
The FAI and FA can double down till its heart's content but this particular gesture can't be refashioned at the tip of Southgate's a PR agency's pen.
I was with Southgate in 2019 when it looked like he and England were about to take a global stand against the dirt of racism in Bulgaria but then they backed away from that which IMO, would have had a far bigger impact and would have been a far bigger driver of change than doubling down on being silly gesture dupes in 2020 and 2021.

About the only use I can see from this is as a perfect example of naming ideological vehicles with such benign and virtuous slogans that generally benign and virtuous people can't see when they're being used.

TomTomTim

Retr0gamer wrote: »

As I said, the thread is full of it. Might not be outright racism but plenty of racist thinking on here. You'd have to be a thicko not to see it. If you have an issue with some one showing they have a problem with racism and want to highlight that with a symbolic gesture then yes, that is textbook racist thinking. I dont make the rules.

And well done there using your advance learnings in history to come up with the statement of the obvious that we will never get rid of racism.

We maybe not ever be rid of racism and hate bit we can also work towards not tolerating it and fighting against it. If you actually have some aptitude in human history I'm sure you will know of plenty of horrendous events that happened when hate and racism were not challenged.

How someone can type something like this, and not see the issue with it is beyond me. People are tick for not being able to see something that you are struggling to point to? As usual, it's "obvious, "clear", "blatant" yet you still can't point it out.

agoodpunt

take the knee or booing has no place in football interaction with fans and players is part of the game supporters alway dish out abuse to player often threatening remember the Cantona attack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7PSY7KYThk

Ok the big money,less phyical game has turned them into privileged mummies boys.

BLM has no rights in football, supporters are the ones who fund the sport and the players must agree what there paymasters want

Acosta

I understand the likes of Wilfried Zaha deciding to stop doing it because football and society at large needs more than gestures to fight racism. But in the wake of all the booing now that fans are back in stadium's, England and others are right to keep on taking the knee. After a year of doing it, they can't stop now. Not when they are actually confronting the reason they're doing it in the first place.

Polar101

I don't think taking the knee will actually achieve anything.

But the people who boo their own players are absolutely pathetic, and it's completely disingenuous when they pretend they're only opposed to taking the knee because they want to keep politics out of sports. It's the same people who boycotted football games when some supporters were putting out "refugees welcome" -signs. They're not opposed to politics, they are just racist scumbags.

Polar101

Polar101 wrote: »

I don't think taking the knee will actually achieve anything.

But the people who boo their own players are absolutely pathetic, and it's completely disingenuous when they pretend they're only opposed to taking the knee because they want to keep politics out of sports. It's the same people who boycotted football games when some supporters were putting out "refugees welcome" -signs. They're not opposed to politics, they are just racist scumbags.

That's a sweeping statement.

Do you think it's possible to vocalise your opposition to taking the knee and NOT be racist?

Pawwed Rig

I would have much rather seen this at the Ireland Qatar match

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56534835

rather than a pointless knee which everyone ignored.

suicide_circus

People pay to go to football matches to watch some very wealthy young men kicking a ball around a field, not to receive some box ticking performance about whatever trendy right-on issue is cause du jour. Football is primarily a working class pastime. BLM (particularly in Europe) is a distinctly prim middle class hobbyhorse. People dont want sermonising at a football match.

PeadarCo

BringBackMick wrote: »

This was a political statement and Ireland will likely be fined as a result

The fact Ireland did not take the knee against Andorra but took the knee against Hungary is the nail in the case really.

Keep politics out of football please

Sport and Politics have always been intertwined. Look at the Roman empire "bread and circus".

Even within football you have Man City and PSG which are used a form of sports washing. They are just two high profile examples in football alone. You will find plenty more not just in football but pretty much any sport of any significance. Heck even the GAA hasn't been immune with photo's of bishops in previous years throwing the ball in in major matches and the whole national anthem. Forget that all, national Athens are political so if you want to keep sports and politics separate you have to get rid of national anthems at sporting events. Then again that might not be enough because nation states are political constructs so to keep sports and politics separate you need to get rid of all national teams. I know I am being facetious(I am not suggesting getting rid of national anthems or teams just highlighting them as an example of where sport and politics are intertwined) but politics and sport have always been intertwined to some degree or other and will always be. If you really want sports and politics separate you are opening very nasty can of worms.

Normally when people say that they want to keep sport and politics separate they are are talking about political viewpoints they don't agree with/don't care or feel strongly about.

extra gravy

suicide_circus wrote: »

People pay to go to football matches to watch some very wealthy young men kicking a ball around a field, not to receive some box ticking performance about whatever trendy right-on issue is cause du jour. Football is primarily a working class pastime. BLM (particularly in Europe) is a distinctly prim middle class hobbyhorse. People dont want sermonising at a football match.

Another stupid take in a thread full of them.