Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

extra gravy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But in what place do you see yourself having the right to label people like that because they elect govts that don't suit your own beliefs?

They have every right to elect who represents them, as you do.

I'm struggling to understand why you see it as your business. Have you lived in Hungary or Poland? Do you have insight in to their domestic politics you could share?

"They can see crystal clearly what you are unwilling or unable to see. They know exactly how dangerous and insidious this stuff is."

You seem to think you can read their minds yourself. How did you gain this insight? They have every right to elect whoever they want just as players have every right to make whatever gesture they like. You conveniently have no problem with labelling when it suits your own views.

Retr0gamer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But in what place do you see yourself having the right to label people like that because they elect govts that don't suit your own beliefs?

They have every right to elect who represents them, as you do.

I'm struggling to understand why you see it as your business. Have you lived in Hungary or Poland? Do you have insight in to their domestic politics you could share?

So if someone makes a bad decision that will negatively affect millions of people you just have to accept it as their decision and not discuss how it's a bad decision and accept the implications?

Cop on.

Kermit.de.frog

extra gravy wrote: »

"They can see crystal clearly what you are unwilling or unable to see. They know exactly how dangerous and insidious this stuff is."

You seem to think you can read their minds yourself. How did you gain this insight? They have every right to elect whoever they want just as players have every right to make whatever gesture they like. You conveniently have no problem with labelling when it suits your own views.

They were under the Soviet Union until 1991. How much insight would you like?

Do the players taking the knee as part of a team have a 'right' or are they being socially corralled in to making political statements?

It's clearly the latter.

Trying to explain to the Warsaw Pact bloc the error of their ways according to you might be ill-advised!

Kermit.de.frog

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So if someone makes a bad decision that will negatively affect millions of people you just have to accept it as their decision and not discuss how it's a bad decision and accept the implications?

Cop on.

Are Hungary and Poland actively interfering with their neighbors?

It's not your business who they vote in and how things are run internally. That is the choice of the people who live there. The EU is free to take measures if it chooses should the country break the rules.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They were under the Soviet Union until 1991. How much insight would you like?

Do the players taking the knee as part of a team have a 'right' or are they being socially corralled in to making political statements?

It's clearly the latter.

Trying to explain to the Warsaw Pact bloc the error of their ways according to you might be ill-advised!

And they currently have an authoritarian leader who limits the freedom of the press. So diversity of opinion pretty clearly is not supported by their own government. But now they're suddenly concerned about diversity of opinion on.... Racism?

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Are Hungary and Poland actively interfering with their neighbors?

It's not your businesses who they vote in and how things are run internally. That is the choice of the people who live there. The EU is free to take measures if it chooses should the country break the rules.

Cool, so nobody should have expressed an opinion on Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy until annexations were done. If human rights violations occur in their own country, that's absolutely fine and we should not criticise... This is your logic. None of our business.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Not racist, but certainly ambivalent or indifferent and probably selfish if not indeed stupid.

How about if some of your team mates had been targeted for the colour of their skin?

Would you join in the final huddle pysching each other up before leaving the dressing room and shout things like 'Let's go lads, we're all in this together' or 'we're a team's but add at the end, 'but not you guys'?

Is that not what you would be doing in such an instance for fear of being accused of being 'woke' or something?

The usual self righteousness from your dear self.

extra gravy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do the players taking the knee as part of a team have a 'right' or are they being socially corralled in to making political statements?

It's clearly the latter.

So now you're presuming to know what's in the players' minds despite the fact they've already explained why they're doing it. But you must know better. As you said yourself "I'm struggling to understand why you see it as your business."

Kermit.de.frog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And they currently have an authoritarian leader who limits the freedom of the press. So diversity of opinion pretty clearly is not supported by their own government. But now they're suddenly concerned about diversity of opinion on.... Racism?



Cool, so nobody should have expressed an opinion on Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy until annexations were done. If human rights violations occur in their own country, that's absolutely fine and we should not criticise... This is your logic. None of our business.

What is the nature of these violations you speak of? If Hungary wants to limit rights to minorities within it's own territory and is not interfering in the affairs of others than it's only our business in so far as the EU can take certain measures that they comply with treaty obligations.

Other than that it is none of our business.

I'd remind you that it exactly your type of attitude that caused the mess in Iraq, seeded ISIS and allowed that maniacal force tear through parts of the middle east.

Why? Because we didn't like Sadam?

In hindsight had the west not interfered none of what followed would have happened.

There is a lesson in there about interfering in the internal affairs of others no matter what one thinks of any particular govt or regime.

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The notion that you must comply and bend the knee or show your approval of such for the good of society to prove your worth to the collective and if you don't you are racist and somehow condone racism is not a misrepresention.

That's what's going on.

That is a form of socialism and one element of communism that those people have lived through and have no intention of living through again.

They can see crystal clearly what you are unwilling or unable to see. They know exactly how dangerous and insidious this stuff is.

The notion that you must comply is going on in your head, it seems an intentional manipulation of the reality of what is going on. Wilfred Zaha stopped doing it and received no condemnation or suggestion he should rethink his decision.

And again you are suggesting that people have a moral resistance to something that ended 30 years ago and of which most of those booing likely didnt experience in a meaningful way given that the were kids or young adults if they were alive at all at that time. And once again you are doing this when it has been pointed out that the act of kneeling for the last several months is to highlight racist behaviour and has no remaining connection to the organisation which initiated it and which itself has been misconstrued as to its purpose in order to weaken its anti-racism message. Again, something that was and is, knowingly done.

Kermit.de.frog

Tell me how wrote: »

Wilfred Zaha stopped doing it and received no condemnation or suggestion he should rethink his decision.

And if a white player in a team decides not to partake?

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Doesn't this just make you one of those interfering busy bodies who wants to go around policing everyone's thoughts?

Is that not what you are doing more than the poster given
you are querying someone directly as to their reasons for having a view on people who selected someone such as Orban.

Should they not be able to express a view as to the sentiment of those who selected him in the same way thousands of sentiments are expressed on here about electorates worldwide all the time.

You are literally trying to stifle political commentary and laughingly, while admonishing someone for doing it. It's a pretty impressive lack of self-reflection.

Kermit.de.frog

Tell me how wrote: »

Is that not what you are doing more than the poster

Nope.

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And if a white player in a team decides not to partake?

Have you a specific event in mind, or are just hypothesising?

Kermit.de.frog

Tell me how wrote: »

Have you a specific event in mind, or are just hypothesising?

I don't think you have to hypothesise too much about what the reaction in certain places particularly in left wing media would be if a sole white player in a team taking the knee instead decided to not do so.

This the reactionary nature of today's media and political environment.

Fandymo

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you're saying racism should be met with violence?

“So you’re saying” that racism should be met with hugs??

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't think you have to hypothesise too much about what the reaction in certain places particularly in left wing media would be if a sole white player in a team taking the knee instead decided to not do so.

This the reactionary nature of today's media and political environment.

And how about the right wing media?
Can we expect them to stay silent on the matter or have an opinion or 2 as to the validity of the whole thing?

Or is it ok for them to push a position?

Kermit.de.frog

Tell me how wrote: »

And how about the right wing media?
Can we expect them to stay silent on the matter or have an opinion or 2 as to the validity of the whole thing?

Or is it ok for them to push a position?

Your question is too broad.

'Right wing' media in what sense?

What we are we talking here - the Daily Telegraph or the Brietbart extreme?

On the left BLM is prompted across the spectrum. On the right it's not as clear cut.

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Your question is too broad.

'Right wing' media in what sense?

What we are we talking here - the Daily Telegraph or the Brietbart extreme?

On the left BLM is prompted across the spectrum. On the right it's not as clear cut.

Lol.

Whatever context you considered when you think of left wing media, apply the same rational in identifying the right wing and then consider the role they play in this.

Advocating for a reduction in racist mindsets or actions does not equate to promoting BLM. Though I do understand that it is useful to have an entity at which to focus your displeasure and to undermine the reasons from which they originated so as to be able to distract from the core message rather than admitting that is where you have the issue.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Lol.

Whatever context you considered when you think of left wing media, apply the same rational in identifying the right wing and then consider the role they play in this.

Advocating for a reduction in racist mindsets or actions does not equate to promoting BLM. Though I do understand that it is useful to have an entity at which to focus your displeasure and to undermine the reasons from which they originated so as to be able to distract from the core message rather than admitting that is where you have the issue.

Where are media that swing to the left critical of the BLM movement?

Necro

Can we get back on topic please

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

Where are media that swing to the left critical of the BLM movement?

What sort of question is that?
Do you want me to pull various articles or commentary that points out how their messaging was poor, or that there have been some unsavoury characters within?
Or that those who do commit violence within are undermining the message significantly.

Can you show me right wing media that is supportive if the movement? Because I'm willing to bet theres more of the former than the latter.

Muahahaha

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

David Squires explains

haha that sums it up nicely.

This notion that Premier League footballers like Marcus Rashford who earns more than £10 milllion pounds a year have suddenly turned into hard left Marxists is one of the funniest things I've seen this year.

In the aftermath of the Europa League final that Man United lost just a couple of weeks ago Marcus Rashford opened up his Instagram and counted 75 abusive messages sent directly to him that contained some combination of the N word, monkey emojis or death threats. Yet you would have people argue that the real reason he is taking the knee isnt because of that, its because Rashford and all other footballers have gone full Communist :rolleyes: Ive never heard such sh1te in all my life.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

What sort of question is that?
Do you want me to pull various articles or commentary that points out how their messaging was poor, or that there have been some unsavoury characters within?
Or that those who do commit violence within are undermining the message significantly.

Can you show me right wing media that is supportive if the movement? Because I'm willing to bet theres more of the former than the latter.

I don't cossumecreally any right wing media, but I don't there was any supportive of it. I read the Guardian and don't recall any negative articles re BLM but I tend to stay away from the opinion pieces these days

Penn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And if a white player in a team decides not to partake?

If a white player decides not to partake, that should be absolutely fine.

If he stood booing the players who are kneeling, he's a c*nt.

jackboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

haha that sums it up nicely.

This notion that Premier League footballers like Marcus Rashford who earns more than £10 milllion pounds a year have suddenly turned into hard left Marxists is one of the funniest things I've seen this year.

In the aftermath of the Europa League final that Man United lost just a couple of weeks ago Marcus Rashford opened up his Instagram and counted 75 abusive messages sent directly to him that contained some combination of the N word, monkey emojis or death threats. Yet you would have people argue that the real reason he is taking the knee isnt because of that, its because Rashford and all other footballers have gone full Communist :rolleyes: Ive never heard such sh1te in all my life.

Maybe he is taking the knee to fight social media racism, I don’t know. Maybe that is what it is about for some.

If yes, why take the knee rather than do something real about the social media racism, such as protesting the social media companies that don’t police it or stop using and ask others to stop using such sites.

By the way, although awful, 75 such vile messages is a tiny amount considering the numbers that have access and indicates that social media racism is being carried out by a minuscule amount of people.

Muahahaha

jackboy wrote: »

Maybe he is taking the knee to fight social media racism, I don’t know. Maybe that is what it is about for some.

They are taking the knee against racism in all its forms

If yes, why take the knee rather than do something real about the social media racism, such as protesting the social media companies that don’t police it or stop using and ask others to stop using such sites.

By the way, although awful, 75 such vile messages is a tiny amount considering the numbers that have access and indicates that social media racism is being carried out by a minuscule amount of people.

Rashford has done all that, the entire Premier League had a four day boycott of all social media just a month ago in protest at Facebook, Twitter not doing enough to stop it. Rashford has also been campaigning to politicians to legislate to regulate social media, he appeared before a House of Commons select committee on this topic not too long ago and explained to politicans about the racist abuse he and other footballers recieve week in week out on social media. He is doing everything he can yet the racists still send him racist abuse calling him the N word, using monkey emojis and issuing death threats.

So Rashford is fighting racism on multiple fronts, its just the racists see what he is doing and they dont like it so they go to his social media to dish out their racist abuse to him.

Loafing Oaf

Muahahaha wrote: »

haha that sums it up nicely.

This notion that Premier League footballers like Marcus Rashford who earns more than £10 milllion pounds a year have suddenly turned into hard left Marxists is one of the funniest things I've seen this year.

From the same source

Sadler Peak

Penn wrote: »

If a white player decides not to partake, that should be absolutely fine.

That would be a very brave white player.

jackboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Rashford has done all that, the entire Premier League had a four day boycott of all social media just a month ago in protest at Facebook, Twitter not doing enough to stop it. Rashford has also been campaigning to politicians to legislate to regulate social media, he appeared before a House of Commons select committee on this topic not too long ago and explained to politicans about the racist abuse he and other footballers recieve week in week out on social media. He is doing everything he can yet the racists still send him racist abuse calling him the N word, using monkey emojis and issuing death threats.

In fairness the four day boycott showed that they weren’t serious, just like taking the knee stuff.

If they all deleted their Facebook and Twitter accounts and launched a campaign to get everyone else to do the same, then we might see things improving.

Fr D Maugire

Muahahaha wrote: »

They are taking the knee against racism in all its forms



Rashford has done all that, the entire Premier League had a four day boycott of all social media just a month ago in protest at Facebook, Twitter not doing enough to stop it. Rashford has also been campaigning to politicians to legislate to regulate social media, he appeared before a House of Commons select committee on this topic not too long ago and explained to politicans about the racist abuse he and other footballers recieve week in week out on social media. He is doing everything he can yet the racists still send him racist abuse calling him the N word, using monkey emojis and issuing death threats.

So Rashford is fighting racism on multiple fronts, its just the racists see what he is doing and they dont like it so they go to his social media to dish out their racist abuse to him.

But this is the issue. Taking the knee has been going on for a year and has achieved very little as players are still being abused, but apparently this is the way to go because it 'creates' a conversation, even though that conversation has been going on forever and the major problem is already very clear.

Social media, the biggest source of racism and abuse got a 4 day boycott. That is simply not enough, if all these footballers were serious about tackling the issue, they would be boycotting these companies, encouraging everyone else to boycott them and marching on Government buildings on a regular basis. They have been doing the kneeling for a year, why can they not keep the pressure on those who really matter.

Fair play to Marcus Rashford, that is a young man to admire. If there were a lot more like him who were serious about racism, rather than the narcissistic adulation they get form their social media accounts, things would move a lot quicker. If anything, taking a knee gives the players a pass as it allows them to show 'empathy' and 'solidarity' without really doing anything of worth about the situation. That is why many see the kneeling as an empty gesture. People can pretend to care whilst the real problem rolls on and on.

Edit: I type too slowly.