Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

is_that_so

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And if a white player in a team decides not to partake?

This happened in F1 where Hamilton lost the rag with some people choosing not to join him. Eventually there were conversations and it was resolved with drivers doing as they felt best with some standing instead.

Muahahaha

jackboy wrote: »

In fairness the four day boycott showed that they weren’t serious, just like taking the knee stuff.

If they all deleted their Facebook and Twitter accounts and launched a campaign to get everyone else to do the same, then we might see things improving.

Why should they have to delete their social media? They are perfectly entitled to have a social media pretense and to not have racists calling them the N-word on it. Deleting their social media is exactly the victory the racists would relish, they would be over the moon to silence black people who speak out against the racism they face. So why give a bunch of racists that victory, all you are doing is playing right into their hands.

Things will only improve when racists who abuse them get arrested and tried in the courts for hate speech and there are real life consequences for their actions. At the moment there isnt so they keep doing it because they know they will get away with it. Rashford has been working with politicians to change that by regulating the social media companies and its only a matter of time before they do, new laws are on the way.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Why should they have to delete their social media? They are perfectly entitled to have a social media pretense and to not have racists calling them the N-word on it. Deleting their social media is exactly the victory the racists would relish, they would be over the moon to silence black people who speak out against the racism they face. So why give a bunch of racists that victory, all you are doing is playing right into their hands.

Things will only improve when racists who abuse them get arrested and tried in the courts for hate speech and there are real life consequences for their actions. At the moment there isnt so they keep doing it because they know they will get away with it. Rashford has been working with politicians to change that by regulating the social media companies and its only a matter of time before they do, new laws are on the way.

What punishment do you think is acceptable for calling someone the N word?

Would it be illegal for a black person to use the word also?

jackboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Why should they have to delete their social media? They are perfectly entitled to have a social media pretense and to not have racists calling them the N-word on it. Deleting their social media is exactly the victory the racists would relish, they would be over the moon to silence black people who speak out against the racism they face. So why give a bunch of racists that victory, all you are doing is playing right into their hands.

Things will only improve when racists who abuse them get arrested and tried in the courts for hate speech and there are real life consequences for their actions. At the moment there isnt so they keep doing it because they know they will get away with it. Rashford has been working with politicians to change that by regulating the social media companies and its only a matter of time before they do, new laws are on the way.

Useless laws. A lot of those racists would be in different countries which can’t be policed by foreign governments. Only the social media companies themselves have a chance at policing their sites. Hit them in the pocket and they will take action.

Fr D Maugire

Muahahaha wrote: »

Why should they have to delete their social media? They are perfectly entitled to have a social media pretense and to not have racists calling them the N-word on it. Deleting their social media is exactly the victory the racists would relish, they would be over the moon to silence black people who speak out against the racism they face. So why give a bunch of racists that victory, all you are doing is playing right into their hands.

Things will only improve when racists who abuse them get arrested and tried in the courts for hate speech and there are real life consequences for their actions. At the moment there isnt so they keep doing it because they know they will get away with it. Rashford has been working with politicians to change that by regulating the social media companies and its only a matter of time before they do, new laws are on the way.

Well I am not talking just about black players, I am talking about all players and all the people around football who 'support' their colleagues in kneeling. Lets see the England team rock up to Westminister and take the knee or go to the gates of Buckingham Palace and take the knee. Lets see the England team boycott Major Championships. Keep doing it until the changes are made, Real Change takes real effort, not the weak/just for show efforts that taking the knee is.

extra gravy

Lukaku scoring after the Russians booed. Lovely stuff!

Muahahaha

jackboy wrote: »

Useless laws. A lot of those racists would be in different countries which can’t be policed by foreign governments. Only the social media companies themselves have a chance at policing their sites. Hit them in the pocket and they will take action.

Nothing useless about laws against racist abuse even across international borders. Are you not aware that Kerryman Patrick o'Brien was recently arrested and brought before the courts for racially abusing Ian Wright in the UK? He called him the N word and wrote death threats to him. Wright made a complaint to UK police who passed it onto the Gardai who then went and arrested him and he pleaded guilty in court.

In any case most of the abuse Premier League footballers have been getting comes from UK based social media accounts, sure in many cases it is coming from their own fans.

Dyr

Just out of curiosity, have any of the posters on about racism in soccer been to a LOI or Premiership match in the last five or so years?

jackboy

Muahahaha wrote: »

Nothing useless about laws against racist abuse even across international borders. Are you not aware that Kerryman Patrick o'Brien was recently arrested and brought before the courts for racially abusing Ian Wright in the UK? He called him the N word and wrote death threats to him. Wright made a complaint to UK police who passed it onto the Gardai who then went and arrested him and he pleaded guilty in court.

In any case most of the abuse Premier League footballers have been getting comes from UK based social media accounts, sure in many cases it is coming from their own fans.

I just can’t see that strategy making a significant difference. Racism is just one of the many extremely serious issues with social media. A big proportion of the abuse is coming from children also which will be a tricky thing to deal with.

A massive campaign to delete accounts in those platforms I think is the most realistic solution.

extra gravy

https://twitter.com/FA/status/1403804301453971456?s=19

The message couldn't be any clearer now and anyone still trying to claim it's about BLM/Marxism is an idiot.

MisterAnarchy

Bambi wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, have any of the posters on about racism in soccer been to a LOI or Premiership match in the last five or so years?

I'd say most of them never kicked a ball in their life.

extra gravy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I'd say most of them never kicked a ball in their life.

That's not what he asked but okay.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FA/status/1403804301453971456?s=19

The message couldn't be any clearer now and anyone still trying to claim it's about BLM/Marxism is an idiot.

Strong message from the fa and is to be commended.

Unfortunately, taking the knee is still deeply associated with BLM. I know the gesture was there before BLM but it's impossible not to link the knee to that movement and I wouldn't be able to support it.

It would be so easy to just choose a different gesture, a shaking of hands, coming out a minute earlier to do a lap of honour,

Actually anything except the exact same gesture they used when supporting black lives matter would do.

jackboy

extra gravy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FA/status/1403804301453971456?s=19

The message couldn't be any clearer now and anyone still trying to claim it's about BLM/Marxism is an idiot.

I find that statement disturbing. That amounts to publicly pressurising the players to take a knee.

Muahahaha

jackboy wrote: »

I just can’t see that strategy making a significant difference. Racism is just one of the many extremely serious issues with social media. A big proportion of the abuse is coming from children also which will be a tricky thing to deal with.

A massive campaign to delete accounts in those platforms I think is the most realistic solution.

What would deleting accounts achieve, all that would be doing is silencing people from speaking out against the racism that is aimed at them. People are entitled to have a social media presence without racists abusing them on it. Them closing down their accounts would be a massive victory for racists themselves, they would love to see the people they hate because of the colour of their skin completely shooed off social media.

There is no perfect solution here but a start has to happen whereby people who engage in racist abuse online can expect to get arrested, charged and convicted of their crimes and likely lose their job because employers tend not to like employees who are racists. It is only then when you have real life consequences to racially abusing someone online that others of a similar mind set will take notice and adjust their behaviour accordingly. Its not a silver bullet but they have to make a start somewhere, doing nothing is no longer an option.

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

I find that statement disturbing. That amounts to publicly pressurising the players to take a knee.

I wouldn't go that far but I see your point. I'm sure it's been discussed with the players first and wouldn't have been released if they had concerns.

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually anything except the exact same gesture they used when supporting black lives matter would do.

Not everyone is as obsessed with BLM as you are though and they're under no obligation to pander to you or anyone else.

MisterAnarchy

Muahahaha wrote: »

What would deleting accounts achieve, all that would be doing is silencing people from speaking out against the racism that is aimed at them. People are entitled to have a social media presence without racists abusing them on it. Them closing down their accounts would be a massive victory for racists themselves, they would love to see the people they hate because of the colour of their skin completely shooed off social media.

There is no perfect solution here but a start has to happen whereby people who engage in racist abuse online can expect to get arrested, charged and convicted of their crimes and likely lose their job because employers tend not to like employees who are racists. It is only then when you have real life consequences to racially abusing someone online that others of a similar mind set will take notice and adjust their behaviour accordingly. Its not a silver bullet but they have to make a start somewhere, doing nothing is no longer an option.

Some players have a private and a public social media account.
The public social media account is often operated by a public relations company or staff.
The private account is used for communicating with close friends and family.

Any racist or derogatory comments could easily be filtered out of comments at source by the social media company if they so choose.

Instead of the above you think introducing controversial hate crimes like they have introduced in Scotland would be a better option ?
Crazy.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Not everyone is as obsessed with BLM as you are though and they're under no obligation to pander to you or anyone else.

You may have missed the part where I DIDNT infer they had an obligation or a need to pander to me.

But passive aggression is fine too.

Sweetemotion

extra gravy wrote: »

Not everyone is as obsessed with BLM as you are though and they're under no obligation to pander to you or anyone else.

Same could be said for the fans booing.

extra gravy

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Instead of the above you think introducing controversial hate crimes like they have introduced in Scotland would be a better option ?
Crazy.

Do you think racially abusing someone isn't a crime?

extra gravy

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Same could be said for the fans booing.

It's possible to disagree with something without booing it.

Sweetemotion

extra gravy wrote: »

It's possible to disagree with something without booing it.

Booing has been around since ancient Greece.


If it's done peacefully, what's the problem?

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Do you think racially abusing someone isn't a crime?

It's not as cut and dry as that. As has been demonstrated on here, some people play loose and fast with what define as a racist and therefore racism.

I've been repeatedly called a racist for my views on here (or at least heavily inferred that I was a racist)

Would that make me a criminal in your eyes?

Hate crime laws are a minefield, and until there are specific criterion outlined which are not dependent on the "victim's" sensibilities or lack thereof, I don't see them being workable.

Muahahaha

jackboy wrote: »

I find that statement disturbing. That amounts to publicly pressurising the players to take a knee.

The players will be behind that FA statement, it is written on their behalf. Players in the PL were asked to vote on taking the knee and they overwhelmingly voted to do so.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Some players have a private and a public social media account.
The public social media account is often operated by a public relations company or staff.
The private account is used for communicating with close friends and family.

Any racist or derogatory comments could easily be filtered out of comments at source by the social media company if they so choose.

Instead of the above you think introducing controversial hate crimes like they have introduced in Scotland would be a better option ?
Crazy.

So your solution is to still allow players to be racially abused with no real world consequences and so long as they dont see it themselves then the problem goes away. Sorry but thats just the ultimate in sweeping the problem under the carpet, if there are no real life consequences for racist abusers then as sure as night follows day they will continue on racially abusing people.

If Marcus Rashford is getting called the N word on his social media week in week out then the UK police need the power and resources to deal with those racists doing that. Arrest them, charge them and convict them, simple as. It should be no different if you shout the N word at a black person in the street. There is absolutely nothing crazy about that compared to your solution of pretending it doesnt happen and expecting the victms of racial abuse to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it is not happening even though their PR company actually have an inbox full of racist bile towards their client. Putting their head in the sand isnt an option, they are entitled to have a social media presence without being called the N word by racists.

Polar101

Deleted User wrote: »

Hate crime laws are a minefield

But (generally) only for those who feel the need to act in a way that's not acceptable to society.

In this case, they are free to disagree with whatever they have an issue with, but it's the booing that's not acceptable.

Retr0gamer

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Booing has been around since ancient Greece.


If it's done peacefully, what's the problem?

Booing an anti racist protest is disgusting.

Polar101

Polar101 wrote: »

But (generally) only for those who feel the need to act in a way that's not acceptable to society.

In this case, they are free to disagree with whatever they have an issue with, but it's the booing that's not acceptable.

Again, I disagree. Booing is absolutely acceptable.

And no, it's a minefield for everyone. If hate is to be made illegal isn't given a proper and concise definition which is not open to interpretation of the victim, everyone is a possible offender.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Booing an anti racist protest is disgusting.

If the reason for booing is because they support racism, I agree. If the reason for booing is that they don't support the gesture and what it is more commonly known for, I disagree

Sweetemotion

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Booing an anti racist protest is disgusting.

People have a right to peaceful protest. Just because you think it's disgusting, doesn't trump that right.