Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Curse These Metal Hands

Yeah there was a mix of boos and applause.

Penn

Fandymo wrote: »

So you’re a hypocrite?

The players have said the knee is nothing to do with BLM, so you accept that, no problem.

But a player stating explicitly that their tattoo is Buddhist, you wouldn’t believe. The swastika has been around a lot longer than taking the knee.

No because kneeling is an act of peaceful protest. The swastika, regardless of origin, is a symbol of Nazi supremacy and genocide and a person cannot choose to get that specific symbol and claim it's about the old historical Buddhist meaning, not the whole "Nazi" thing. If you think they're in any way comparable, I advise you don't get any tattoos.

Now how about my question, if they sat on the ground instead and people booed them, is that okay?

is_that_so

Fandymo wrote: »

There were plenty of boos though?!?

Could have been, not that noticeable, just noticed the England team kneeling. They need to accept that some people don't like it for whatever reason and will continue to boo and there are no winners for the England hierarchy in wading into it.

MrMusician18

is_that_so wrote: »

Could have been, not noticeable, just noticed the England team kneeling. They need to accept that some people don't like it for whatever reason and will continue to boo and there are no winners for the England hierarchy in wading into it.

The Guardian reported there was a lot of booing. Not watching it myself.

is_that_so

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The Guardian reported there was a lot of booing. Not watching it myself.

Really not that obvious TBH, especially in comparison to the very loud booing of Croatian players.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The Guardian reported there was a lot of booing. Not watching it myself.

There was some booing, not a lot. Went grand I'd say.

MrMusician18

is_that_so wrote: »

Really not that obvious TBH, especially in comparison to the very loud booing of Croatian players.

Unless you're there you can't say. The stadium director determines the mix you hear on TV.

jackboy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The Guardian reported there was a lot of booing. Not watching it myself.

Didn’t seem to be much but as the stadium is so empty it is hard to judge.

is_that_so

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Unless you're there you can't say. The stadium director determines the mix you hear on TV.

Well, you seem to be convinced by The Guardian so it's you, who's not watching, and your source versus moi, who is! Really not noticeable to me and I'll leave it there.

martingriff

is_that_so wrote: »

Really not that obvious TBH, especially in comparison to the very loud booing of Croatian players.

I think that is really to Modric who said something about English arrogance. He then clarified he meant the media and not the team or fans.

As for the booing there i agree was a small bit. Think there were some cheers also

MrMusician18

is_that_so wrote: »

Well, you seem to be convinced by The Guardian so it's you, who's not watching, and your source versus moi, who is! Really not noticeable to me and I'll leave it there.

One way or another I don't care tbh. It is interesting that after Southgate and the FA pleaded with supporters to not do it it still happened.

This is going to end up a complete circus now, with the actual meaning of the gesture totally lost.

is_that_so

MrMusician18 wrote: »

One way or another I don't care tbh. It is interesting that after Southgate and the FA pleaded with supporters to not do it it still happened.

This is going to end up a complete circus now, with the actual meaning of the gesture totally lost.

Hasn't that really happened already? I'm with Zaha on this, that it's now just part of the pre-match routine.

archfi

Disapproval was noticeable and I don't have a special boo-boost mode on my telly.
Funny thing is, the fans immediately entered football mode as soon as the silliness stopped.
And no players being booed, it's as if...

martingriff

MrMusician18 wrote: »

One way or another I don't care tbh. It is interesting that after Southgate and the FA pleaded with supporters to not do it it still happened.

This is going to end up a complete circus now, with the actual meaning of the gesture totally lost.

You think because people were asked something they would do I and as such that will make it a circus? The actual gesture will always be debated given it started with BLM and how people see them

sligeach

Fandymo wrote: »

There were plenty of boos though?!?

There was booing, and then others tried to drown it out. That was the quickest knee I've ever seen, especially compared to when it was done in empty Premiership stadiums over the past while. It was almost a genuflect. They didn't give people time to really dwell on it, it was over in a second.

Timberrrrrrrr

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Unless you're there you can't say. The stadium director determines the mix you hear on TV.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The Guardian reported there was a lot of booing. Not watching it myself.

LOL!!! you're not watching it but can say with conviction that there was lots of booing because the Guardian said so.:pac:

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

So do you want some words made illegal for certain races to say but legal for other races to say?

Maybe we should have different water fountains too.

Your post is exactly why this whole debate is toxic. If you don't think the BLM movement is fantastic you're a racist. If you don't think taking the knee is this great big grand gesture and fully support it, you're a racist. It's the usual trick that we've seen for years emenating from certain elements, primarily on the left now, of trying to frame anyone who disagrees with them as being something awful, whether it be racist, homophobic, transphobic etc. An insidious attempt to shame people in to silence.

This can be seen even on boards across threads on any controversial topic whether it be the multicultural thread (racist, xenphobes), gender identity threads (transphobe) etc.

Oh, and yes, I have of course made a ridiculous initial comment to your post. But it's no different to what you've done to the dunne and, for example, omackrel earlier in the thread. Asking why someone shouldn't be able to say a word and equating that with championing the word is patently ridiculous.

You're completely ignoring the history associated with the word in your effort to absolve someone else from also doing it.
This isnt a singular word just identified or created with no context. It is disingenuous to misrepresent the conversation as being about some generic word.
Do you agree with the dunne that BLM is an abhorrent ideal/movement? Is that not trying to frame it as something awful? Is that reasonable when the vast amount of protests were entirely peaceful and the arrest rate was something like 1 in 2000 of those who attended? Because if so, have you not formed an opinion based on limited exposure and probably zero interaction with anyone who may say they are from a BLM group.

And again you are falling in to the same practice as the dunne in generalizing a group, those on the left, while getting outraged that similar might done towards you, him, or others you agree with. Is it toxic for me to point this out even though it is likely true?

Its laughable that you reference threads on Boards as containing attempts to shame people in to silence given all these threads are started by and generally used by people bemoaning the topic whether it multiculturalism, women's rights, advocating for fair treatment of people of all colours by police etc etc.

But given you brought up other threads, let's touch on that for a minute. When someone counters consistently and forcefully to the narrative that is persistent on these threads many get upset and say that they are being targeted and are being accused of being racist or sexist or whatever. Which going by the amount of times this is brought up as being a disgusting thing to do, just might be worse than the actual act itself for some which is a nearly impressive lack of self awareness.

And more often, it is people saying they have been accused of being racist way way more than it is someone actually being accused of being racist. I haven't called anyone out here for being racist. I've only ever done it once in Boards in a post that wasnt carded or removed because of the view expressed in the post I was responding to. But while I do think there are some who could be categorized as such, and more who just shrug their shoulders and say nothing to do with me which you might say is fine but they then express a view on those on the other side of the topic being discussed and that then leads me to think they are at least absolving those who are being prejudiced in their actions.

But I do think there are a significant of people who see any conversation about the advancement of minorities or women, or whoever as meaning that they are going to lose out, or that it is going to be harder for them themselves to get opportunities in future than it may have been in the past. I've referred to them before as 'Status quo fan club members'. Change is something to be fearful of in their eyes and whether it is calling for an end to racism through peaceful protests or talking about more women in politics, or being more welcome to people who look or sound different, their view is No, No, No like a keyboard version of Ian Paisley.
Or maybe they are just upset that it is always someone else who is being advocated for, and no one is standing up for them and they feel isolated and ignored and forgotten. If so, I wish, as I've said before, they'd start threads looking to discuss that instead of attacking all the people and groups who they think are getting the attention they should be getting.

And for the record, this is a view expressed as to how I generally experience these types of threads. it's not specifically about you or the dunne or anyone else who might feel outraged and ask me to show posts from the 100's of threads and 1000's of posters which have led me to forming this view over several years.

extra gravy

Some England fans booed the Croatian anthem, that's the level of respect and intelligence on display. The idea that they boo taking the knee because they disagree with the "politics" of it is hilarious. It's not that deep and they're not that smart.

MrMusician18

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

LOL!!! you're not watching it but can say with conviction that there was lots of booing because the Guardian said so.:pac:

I was responding to is_that_so who claimed that there was no repeat today. The Guardian reported that there was, and a lot of it. I don't need to be there or watching it on TV to be able to state that.

Watching through a television doesn't give you a real impression of the amount that went on as the volume and mix of the audio feeds are determined by the stadium television director. If there was a period of total silence during the televised coverage would you believe there was no sound in the stadium?

So LOL indeed.

Timberrrrrrrr

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I was responding to is_that_so who claimed that there was no repeat today. The Guardian reported that there was, and a lot of it. I don't need to be there or watching it on TV to be able to state that.

Watching through a television doesn't give you a real impression of the amount that went on as the volume and mix of the audio feeds are determined by the stadium television director. If there was a period of total silence during the televised coverage would you believe there was no sound in the stadium?

So LOL indeed.

From the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/13/england-players-take-knee-wembley-euro-2020-boos-applause

Boos drowned out by applause as England players take knee at Wembley

fans largely got behind the wishes of the players, and the booing from some sections of the 22,500 crowd were silenced by the time the match kicked off

They were vastly outnumbered, however, by fans applauding and even cheering the gesture.

So yes...LOL indeed.

MrMusician18

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

From the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/13/england-players-take-knee-wembley-euro-2020-boos-applause




So yes...LOL indeed.

Good man, quote an article filed after I had posted.
It doesn't contradict that there was a lot of booing.

Timberrrrrrrr

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Good man, quote an article filed after I had posted.
It doesn't contradict that there was a lot of booing.

An hour ago I was watching the start of the game (unlike you) and I heard very little booing. You claimed the Guardian said there was lots so I went to thier website and quoted your own source.

So I and others didn't hear much booing while watching live, your own source said there wasn't much booing yet here you are still claiming to know better :pac:

MrMusician18

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

An hour ago I was watching the start of the game (unlike you) and I heard very little booing. You claimed the Guardian said there was lots so I went to thier website and quoted your own source.

So I and others didn't hear much booing while watching live, your own source said there wasn't much booing yet here you are still claiming to know better :pac:

Did you actually look at the quote I posted from the Guardian?

The Guardian wrote:

The England players take a knee... and there is a lot of booing.

Just because you didn't hear it on TV doesn't mean it didn't happen. What you hear depends on how the sound feed was mixed. Perhaps you believe that commentators voice booms out godlike across the stadium because it's louder and clearer than the crowd noise?

Faugheen

Deleted User wrote: »

Another lie faugheen. I made it patently clear that the meme was not compatible to actual racism that people experience and was just as bad as the faux outrage of cultural appropriation (i.e silly to be outraged about)

That is clearly showing that although one may argue the meme is racist, or wearing a kimono is racist, they are both being stupidly outraged over nothing and not focussing on real and dangerous racism.

I've said it before, when people shout racism when there isn't any, it lessens its impact.

You know this only too well.

It's not a lie.

You never, ever call out those who use provocative language by calling people who support BLM terrorist sympathisers. Yet if someone is called a racist you are up in arms and you are in there to act the white knight.

You aren't balanced at all. Saying you are balanced is one the greatest levels of b*ll**** that you try to peddle. You use long sentences and big words to make yourself seem intelligent when really all you are is someone completely lacking in empathy.

All of the times you talk about the 'thuggish' organisation BLM is, and you are always corrected that the vast, vast, vast majority of BLM protests were entirely peaceful. You still peddle that provocative bull****. Balanced, my arse.

Now, you are being told by players, management, the FA and numerous other posters who can actually read what the players are doing by kneeling, and you still use provocative language by linking it to that 'thuggish' organisation while telling them that they shouldn't be doing it.

Who on earth are you to say what black people should do to peacefully protest? Who are you?

Along with all of this, you, in this thread, tried to peddle some sympathy by referring to yourself as the resident racist. Spare us the bull****. When you actually prove that you are capable of having a proper discussion about racism and not just make it about the bad things some black people have been doing and linking a movement against racism with violence (93% peaceful), then people might actually take you seriously.

As it is, all you do is talk about the awful BLM organisation while giving people **** for using provocative language, when you completely ignore posters who say it's full of Marxists, communists and terrorists and those who imply that supporters of the players kneeling are sympathisers of terrorists and communists.

Show you're balanced. Call it out. Otherwise you're going to face all of this non-stop and people are going to believe you are exactly what you portray yourself to be.

"I've seen it from both sides," yet you are only sympathetic to the white side. You never call it out on both sides. Instead you fight tooth and nail to defend any possible racism from white people, while also trying to make out that black people are actually the racists.

Tell me how

On the level of respect some fans are in possession of.

https://twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1403664102619287554?s=19

Ahwell

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Did you actually look at the quote I posted from the Guardian?

Just because you didn't hear it on TV doesn't mean it didn't happen. What you hear depends on how the sound feed was mixed. Perhaps you believe that commentators voice booms out godlike across the stadium because it's louder and clearer than the crowd noise?

Boos were drowned out by applause as England took the knee before their opening Euro 2020 fixture against Croatia.

Those booing were identified as forming part of the England support, with some of the individuals also singing anti-IRA songs before kick-off. They were vastly outnumbered, however, by fans applauding and even cheering the gesture.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/13/england-players-take-knee-wembley-euro-2020-boos-applause

MarkEadie

Faugheen wrote: »

It's not a lie.

You never, ever call out those who use provocative language by calling people who support BLM terrorist sympathisers. Yet if someone is called a racist you are up in arms and you are in there to act the white knight.

You aren't balanced at all. Saying you are balanced is one the greatest levels of b*ll**** that you try to peddle. You use long sentences and big words to make yourself seem intelligent when really all you are is someone completely lacking in empathy.

All of the times you talk about the 'thuggish' organisation BLM is, and you are always corrected that the vast, vast, vast majority of BLM protests were entirely peaceful. You still peddle that provocative bull****. Balanced, my arse.

Now, you are being told by players, management, the FA and numerous other posters who can actually read what the players are doing by kneeling, and you still use provocative language by linking it to that 'thuggish' organisation while telling them that they shouldn't be doing it.

Who on earth are you to say what black people should do to peacefully protest? Who are you?

Along with all of this, you, in this thread, tried to peddle some sympathy by referring to yourself as the resident racist. Spare us the bull****. When you actually prove that you are capable of having a proper discussion about racism and not just make it about the bad things some black people have been doing and linking a movement against racism with violence (93% peaceful), then people might actually take you seriously.

As it is, all you do is talk about the awful BLM organisation while giving people **** for using provocative language, when you completely ignore posters who say it's full of Marxists, communists and terrorists and those who imply that supporters of the players kneeling are sympathisers of terrorists and communists.

Show you're balanced. Call it out. Otherwise you're going to face all of this non-stop and people are going to believe you are exactly what you portray yourself to be.

"I've seen it from both sides," yet you are only sympathetic to the white side. You never call it out on both sides. Instead you fight tooth and nail to defend any possible racism from white people, while also trying to make out that black people are actually the racists.

Great post. I would also add that his "but I have a mixed race daughter" story is up to the reader whether to believe it or not.

MarkEadie

MarkEadie wrote: »

Great post. I would also add that his "but I have a mixed race daughter" story is up to the reader whether to believe it or not.

How dare you?!

I won't be interacting with you.

Disgusting.

Fandymo

Penn wrote: »

No because kneeling is an act of peaceful protest. The swastika, regardless of origin, is a symbol of Nazi supremacy and genocide and a person cannot choose to get that specific symbol and claim it's about the old historical Buddhist meaning, not the whole "Nazi" thing. If you think they're in any way comparable, I advise you don't get any tattoos.

Now how about my question, if they sat on the ground instead and people booed them, is that okay?

So BLM didn’t invent taking a knee, they only used it for a few years, and continue to use it, nothing to do with them.

Nazis didn’t invent the swastika, used it for a few years and it’s linked with them forever and ever and ever.

That’s some logic.

Granadino

I don't think all teams should have to take the knee. Cancel culture has ruined everything.