Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And your point fails miserably cause you're using such an extreme contrast example... The goal of BLM is to highlight police brutality against people off colour and racially motivated violence. Using a civil rights movement as an example would work. Eg the suffragettes back in the day were famed for wanton disregard. One famously whipped Winston Churchill on a street, so you happy to write off the suffragettes as a violent organisation and ignore what motivated them?



Cause it's easy to control the behavior of every single person participating?

It's hilarious how one side of the aisle is allowed to invoke the Nazis and the holocaust and the other isn't. It's an extreme example when I use it but when you're banging on about Nazi Germany as a parallel to modern day Hungary it's acceptable.

The problem for BLM is that the percentages don't tell the whole story. 10000+ arrests is a PR nightmare for a supposedly peaceful organisation and if saying that it's only a few bad apples is the response when BLM leaders are calling for violence against white people (which is racist by definition) and it is happening regularly then organisation isn't peaceful by and reasonable metric.

kildare lad

Tell me how wrote: »

Why don't people in the stands stop the people committing racist abuse towards players if they're all so morally upstanding and only refusing to boo because their parents told them communism was bad 40 years ago?

Why didn't the 30 people at the party where BLM activist Sasha Johnson was shot in the head, make a statement or help the police with their enquiries . You can garuentee some knew who had shot her . They'd rather criminal go free and help the police put them away . It's very hard to take a movement like that seriously when you see stuff like that . Then you've idiots like Colin Kaepernick posting on Instagram saying abolish the police , close the prisons . What could go wrong . Why doesn't he move to Somalia if he wants to live in a society like that .

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

My argument is that the vast number of people attending protests, and the protests themselves in what was the most widely attended protest movement in any given year ever on record, were peaceful.

It is a mockery to suggest otherwise and is being done so as to deflect from the central message which those protests were about.

And now would be good time to repeat that the exact same arguments were used against civil rights campaigners, including MLK, in the 60's. You are literally repeating history.

MLK never called for violence against white people, nor did he push an idea like critical race theory. Not all black people support BLM, not all black activists in history are the same as BLM.

Therein lies the problem people on your side of this debate have, everything should be easily classified and labeled, there is no room for shades of grey.

Complex problems never have simplistic solutions, so simplistic approaches to solving complex problems are inherently flawed.

Tell me how

kildare lad wrote: »

Why didn't the 30 people at the party where BLM activist Sasha Johnson was shot in the head, make a statement or help the police with their enquiries . You can garuentee some knew who had shot her . They'd rather criminal go free and help the police put them away . It's very hard to take a movement like that serious when you see stuff like that .

And yet you widely support a group in which some police officers don't call out their colleagues for racist motivations and actions.

But one group is members of the public, the other is hired and paid to protect and serve.

Timberrrrrrrr

kildare lad wrote: »

Why didn't the 30 people at the party where BLM activist Sasha Johnson was shot in the head, make a statement or help the police with their enquiries . You can garuentee some knew who had shot her . They'd rather criminal go free and help the police put them away . It's very hard to take a movement like that seriously when you see stuff like that .

Probably for the same reason people don’t come forward when there is a shooting/murder in Dublin, Cork, Limerick etc :rolleyes:

extra gravy

Good Time Jim wrote: »

Yes I think it cringe that Europeans are kneeling for American race hustlers.

Lay off the right wing propaganda good lad, it'll rot your brain.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

MLK never called for violence against white people, nor did he push an idea like critical race theory. Not all black people support BLM, not all black activists in history are the same as BLM.

Therein lies the problem people on your side of this debate have, everything should be easily classified and labeled, there is no room for shades of grey.

Complex problems never have simplistic solutions, so simplistic approaches to solving complex problems are inherently flawed.

You have denounced an entire movement because of the sentiments of a few within. And are complaining that those in support of anti-racism initiatives are the ones with hard and fast lines?

Are you for real?

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

You have denounced an entire movement because of the sentiments of a few within? And are complaining that those in support of anti-racism initiatives are the ones with hard and fast lines?

Are you for real?

I never said any of that.

BLM has had it's issues with violence, BLM leaders haven't done enough to discourage those engaged in violence and some BLM leaders have publicly called for racially motivated violence against white people.

You can't be a credible anti racist organisation when you have people in leadership roles calling for racially motivated violence, it just doesn't track.

If there was some magic wand that could remove racism from the world I'd be the first to wave it. Taking a knee before a football match is not some panacea, it's gotten to a point where it could end up doing more harm than good. Anti racism campaigns have existed in football for decades and none of them created the type of backlash taking the knee has done.

Essentially taking the knee could end up undoing decades of hard work carried out long before it was ever dreamt up. That's the shame of the whole thing.

Bobblehats

England, are the only team to have kneeled today not even Holland.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

I never said any of that.

BLM has had it's issues with violence, BLM leaders haven't done enough to discourage those engaged in violence and some BLM leaders have publicly called for racially motivated violence against white people.

You can't be a credible anti racist organisation when you have people in leadership roles calling for racially motivated violence, it just doesn't track.

If there was some magic wand that could remove racism from the world I'd be the first to wave it. Taking a knee before a football match is not some panacea, it's gotten to a point where it could end up doing more harm than good. Anti racism campaigns have existed in football for decades and none of them created the type of backlash taking the knee has done.

Essentially taking the knee could end up undoing decades of hard work carried out long before it was ever dreamt up. That's the shame of the whole thing.

If this is the case then it is because it truly is shining a light on something that is hitting too close to home for some.

There's any myriad of things that go on at sporting events in which the attention of the people is requested by the organisers. People losing their mind over something that lasts 20-30 seconds at the start of a football match is very telling. FFS, if the game has gone on too long there, they have a break just so as to fit in TV ads for the station broadcasting it.

I was at a hockey game in the US last week. At one point people were asked to show their thanks and appreciation for the member of the United States military who was in attendance as he appeared on the big screens and crowd went nuts. How's that for leaving politics out of sport?

How's that for leaving politics out of sport? Not mind that many of the people in the UK who say this should be the case probably chant '2 world wars and 1 world cup' when England play Germany.

extra gravy

Good Time Jim wrote: »

So what has kneeling achieved? Apart from antagonising and dividing people?

How many racists have renounced their ways?

If you find yourself being antagonised by someone taking the knee, I'd get some help for that tbh.

Bobblehats

Good Time Jim wrote: »

Lol it would be the English

Far as I’m concerned anyone found to be a law unto themselves can take their leave.

Larbre34

extra gravy wrote: »

If you find yourself being antagonised by someone taking the knee, I'd get some help for that tbh.

He's right and you know it.

Not one less bit of abuse, harassment, prejudice or alienation. Just another totem for the rednecks to mock for its total vacuousness and tokenism.

Tell me how

Reported for the 3rd time. Hope anyone who is going to be asking later for evidence of racism will remember this after the posts are removed.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Reported for the 3rd time. Hope anyone who is going to be asking later for evidence of racism will remember this after the posts are removed.

Genuinely missed it but I take it it was a troll?

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

If this is the case then it is because it truly is shining a light on something that is hitting too close to home for some.

There's any myriad of things that go on at sporting events in which the attention of the people is requested by the organisers. People losing their mind over something that lasts 20-30 seconds at the start of a football match is very telling. FFS, if the game has gone on too long there, they have a break just so as to fit in TV ads for the station broadcasting it.

I was at a hockey game in the US last week. At one point people were asked to show their thanks and appreciation for the member of the United States military who was in attendance as he appeared on the big screens and crowd went nuts. How's that for leaving politics out of sport?

How's that for leaving politics out of sport? Not mind that many of the people in the UK who say this should be the case probably chant '2 world wars and 1 world cup' when England play Germany.

People don't like being told that opposing what is in essence a gesture makes them a racist.

It's telling that more people in this country (using this site as a metric) are interested in discussing this topic as opposed to the bigotry directed at James McClean for not wearing a poppy, vile comments about his wife and children which are every bit as disgusting as anything suffered by black players online.

We're so desperate to assume guilt for the actions of others with similar skin tones to ourselves historically that we're more upset by people booing taking the knee at the euros than the casual way in which anti Irish bigotry is thrown around.

As for English fans chants against Germany, I'm not in the habit of caring about that level of nonsense, two nations who have unleashed untold misery upon the world being nasty to each other isn't my problem.

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

Reported for the 3rd time. Hope anyone who is going to be asking later for evidence of racism will remember this after the posts are removed.

Well if it's removed then it shows racism isn't allowed or accepted doesn't it?! Surely that's a good thing.

Fr D Maugire

Tell me how wrote: »

If this is the case then it is because it truly is shining a light on something that is hitting too close to home for some.

There's any myriad of things that go on at sporting events in which the attention of the people is requested by the organisers. People losing their mind over something that lasts 20-30 seconds at the start of a football match is very telling. FFS, if the game has gone on too long there, they have a break just so as to fit in TV ads for the station broadcasting it.

I was at a hockey game in the US last week. At one point people were asked to show their thanks and appreciation for the member of the United States military who was in attendance as he appeared on the big screens and crowd went nuts. How's that for leaving politics out of sport?

How's that for leaving politics out of sport? Not mind that many of the people in the UK who say this should be the case probably chant '2 world wars and 1 world cup' when England play Germany.

That is the issue, the US leads and then everyone else follows along blindly. The US has an obsession with their military, the fact that they devote a whole month to Service during the NFL season bugs me. The fact they make a fuss of letting military personnel boards aeroplane's first bugs me. Not in the sense I am going crazy, but just in a general, that is so stupid sense. I initially didn't like Kapernick kneeling because it was bringing politics into sport, and there were a lot of Americans who felt the same, but that is hypocritical because NFL is already politicized with the military BS so fair play to Colin Kapernick. But that is not what I want to see become the norm in Sport which has always been my main bugbear with the kneeling.

BTW, would you consider Hockey a racist or non-inclusive sport?

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

Well if it's removed then it shows racism isn't allowed or accepted doesn't it?! Surely that's a good thing.

No one is saying otherwise.

But on several occasions people have asked for evidence of racism in the thread and have implied that it hasn't existed.

I covered this at least once.

Tell me how wrote: »

Asking for 'proof of racism' is being disingenuous. When anyone posts it here (as some have done in the past) it is reported, removed and they are banned.
They learn their lesson and so can easily couch their language so there is nothing definitive that you can point to.

It is very easy it is to be racist and not leave any verifiable evidence that you are so.

This latest poster is no doubt still reading the thread and could well be back in future and should they choose to keep their true motivations hidden, it isn't that hard.

It was clear today they wanted some entertainment.

kildare lad

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Probably for the same reason people don’t come forward when there is a shooting/murder in Dublin, Cork, Limerick etc :rolleyes:

Really , so if your mate got shot you'd say nothing even confidentially ?? How's that attitude gonna stop black men from dying . Black lives matter don't give a damn about black people unless it's a white man that they can blame racism on. Anyway the gardai have done a very good job dismantling the gangs in limerick and the kinahans in Dublin.

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

But on several occasions people have asked for evidence of racism in the thread and have implied that it hasn't existed.

Fair play to the moderation team for actioning it.

Timberrrrrrrr

kildare lad wrote: »

Really , so if your mate got shot you'd say nothing even confidentially ?? How's that attitude gonna stop black men from dying . Black lives matter don't give a damn about black people unless it's a white man that they can blame racism on. Anyway the gardai have done a very good job dismantling the gangs in limerick and the kinahans in Dublin.

Two arrests were made for the shooting, do you think maybe that this did happen?

Tell me how

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

That is the issue, the US leads and then everyone else follows along blindly. The US has an obsession with their military, the fact that they devote a whole month to Service during the NFL season bugs me. The fact they make a fuss of letting military personnel boards aeroplane's first bugs me. Not in the sense I am going crazy, but just in a general, that is so stupid sense. I initially didn't like Kapernick kneeling because it was bringing politics into sport, and there were a lot of Americans who felt the same, but that is hypocritical because NFL is already politicized with the military BS so fair play to Colin Kapernick. But that is not what I want to see become the norm in Sport which has always been my main bugbear with the kneeling.

Don't think it is simply a case of the US leading and others blindly following. The way the US treats sport as being a business has not been taken up by sports in Europe yet (although the suggestiong og the SL was an attempt to move it in that direction).
And there are many documented instances of racism being aimed at players in Europe and so it is not surprising that they have chosen to act given that it is a conversation receiving a lot of attention moreso than doing it just because the Americans are at it.

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

BTW, would you consider Hockey a racist or non-inclusive sport?

No. I haven't heard of any example of people being excluded because of their background. Most players come from areas still largely white. There are currently some black players also. I suspect that number will grow over time but also that given the interest in black communities in particularly basketball and football, it might not increase that much in our life times.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is saying otherwise.

But on several occasions people have asked for evidence of racism in the thread and have implied that it hasn't existed.

I covered this at least once.



This latest poster is no doubt still reading the thread and could well be back in future and should they choose to keep their true motivations hidden, it isn't that hard.

It was clear today they wanted some entertainment.

Ah ok.

Well nobody here who is known or has a long posting history is racist or supports racism.

You will always get trolls and re-reg people coming in to rile people up. Couple here that are on your side believe it or not.

But if you are pointing to obvious trolls as evidence of racism, you are either new to the internet or acting the maggot.

The bottom line is that racism is not tolerated and nor should it be. To claim this site is full of alt/far right racists (not saying you directly made the accusation) is unfounded.

kildare lad

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Two arrests were made for the shooting, do you think maybe that this did happen?

It seems the police had more interest in catching her shooter than her friends did. Oh the irony of it all

https://www.standard.c...-appeal-b939158.html

None of the 30 guests at a party where black equal rights campaigner Sasha Johnson was shot has come forward to give a statement, police said as they appealed for information.

Detective Chief Inspector Richard Leonard, of the Metropolitan Police, said Ms Johnson, 27, had suffered the most “profound life-changing injuries”.

She was shot in the head in a back garden in Peckham, south London, on May 23 and remains in hospital in a critical condition

DCI Leonard said: “When they get there, we’ve got a hugely chaotic situation. People were incredibly upset and in shock.
But the reality is nobody who was at that party has come forward to give us a statement or any further information.”

He added: “I would also urge those who were at the party to make contact and tell us what you know

It is vital that we gather as much information as possible to establish what happened in the early hours of that Sunday morning and why.”

Sasha’s mother, Ellet Dalling, said: “What has happened to Sasha has left us devastated. She is currently fighting for her life in hospital with two children asking where their mummy is, what do I tell them?
“Someone must have information to what happened and to come forward.

“Sasha is passionate about standing up for others, please come forward and stand up for Sasha.

“Come forward to help us, I know it is not always easy but imagine if it was your daughter or the mother of your children.

“I believe there are people out there that can help.”

Five males have been arrested in connection with the incident.

Four of the suspects were released on bail until a date in late June while Cameron Deriggs, 18, appeared in court charged with conspiracy to murder

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sasha-johnson-shooting-peckham-police-mother-appeal-b939158.html

Fr D Maugire

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't think it is simply a case of the US leading and others blindly following. The way the US treats sport as being a business has not been taken up by sports in Europe yet (although the suggestiong og the SL was an attempt to move it in that direction).
And there are many documented instances of racism being aimed at players in Europe and so it is not surprising that they have chosen to act given that it is a conversation receiving a lot of attention moreso than doing it just because the Americans are at it.



No. I haven't heard of any example of people being excluded because of their background. Most players come from areas still largely white. There are currently some black players also. I suspect that number will grow over time but also that given the interest in black communities in particularly basketball and football, it might not increase that much in our life times.

Ok, well let me give you an example of the kind of nonsense that grinds on people about anti-racism and activism.

One of the sports I follow is Professional cycling, up until 40 years ago, it was almost an entirely European dominated sport and even then, it was just a handful of nations that dominated, France, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands. Outside of that it was a niche sport in almost every country. In the 80s we saw more individuals from other mainly First World Countries begin to emerge, though randomly Colombia became a player as well. Anyways, cycling gradually became more global, but even today is still European centric, though there are small numbers of Black Africans/Asians in the Pro Ranks so it is very like hockey.

Anyway, last year one of the winners of a major race, an English guy Tao Geoghegan-Hart launched a campaign to get more minorities into cycling. Grand you say, no issue with that. But the reason he did this is apparently some of his mates from minority backgrounds in London told him cycling was a non-inclusive and racist sport, and was not doing enough to fight racism. In response, he said he supported BLM and took the knee to show his support.

So this is my bugbear, like in hockey in the US, there are no barriers to minorities competing in cycling other than it has become a bit expensive to compete in, but that goes for anyone from any racial background, especially poor urban centres where cycling in busy built up area's is not exactly appealing to parents of young children. Even outside of that, cycling is still a niche sport and not very popular with younger people.

There are Development teams in Africa/Asia supporting riders from those Continents so this seems to be primarily about minorities in European Countries. Back in the 90s there were even a few Black/mixed race riders in the UK, but there has been none since.

So how exactly is cycling a non-inclusive/racist sport when it is so similar to hockey and why is this crap being pushed on us?

kildare lad

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Ok, well let me give you an example of the kind of nonsense that grinds on people about anti-racism and activism.

One of the sports I follow is Professional cycling, up until 40 years ago, it was almost an entirely European dominated sport and even then, it was just a handful of nations that dominated, France, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands. Outside of that it was a niche sport in almost every country. In the 80s we saw more individuals from other mainly First World Countries begin to emerge, though randomly Colombia became a player as well. Anyways, cycling gradually became more global, but even today is still European centric, though there are small numbers of Black Africans/Asians in the Pro Ranks so it is very like hockey.

Anyway, last year one of the winners of a major race, an English guy Tao Geoghegan-Hart launched a campaign to get more minorities into cycling. Grand you say, no issue with that. But the reason he did this is apparently some of his mates from minority backgrounds in London told him cycling was a non-inclusive and racist sport, and was not doing enough to fight racism. In response, he said he supported BLM and took the knee to show his support.

So this is my bugbear, like in hockey in the US, there are no barriers to minorities competing in cycling other than it has become a bit expensive to compete in, but that goes for anyone from any racial background, especially poor urban centres where cycling in busy built up area's is not exactly appealing to parents of young children. Even outside of that, cycling is still a niche sport and not very popular with younger people.

There are Development teams in Africa/Asia supporting riders from those Continents so this seems to be primarily about minorities in European Countries. Back in the 90s there were even a few Black/mixed race riders in the UK, but there has been none since.

So how exactly is cycling a non-inclusive/racist sport when it is so similar to hockey and why is this crap being pushed on us?

People are making a career out of finding racism in everything. Sad way of living you're life . I've seem some ridiculous headlines over the last year , everything from maths being racist to visiting national parks in America because it costs money to travel there and minorities are poor so they can't afford to go which is now classed as racism . And who can forget the idiot speaking at the protest in blanchardstown who accused Ireland of being complicit in the slave trade because the brits paid off 100 people in Ireland when they banned it . You'd know he never read an Irish history book but can spout rubbish and lies like most activists do and the crowd will lap it up

Timberrrrrrrr

kildare lad wrote: »

It seems the police had more interest in catching her shooter than her friends did. Oh the irony of it all

https://www.standard.c...-appeal-b939158.html

None of the 30 guests at a party where black equal rights campaigner Sasha Johnson was shot has come forward to give a statement, police said as they appealed for information.

Detective Chief Inspector Richard Leonard, of the Metropolitan Police, said Ms Johnson, 27, had suffered the most “profound life-changing injuries”.

She was shot in the head in a back garden in Peckham, south London, on May 23 and remains in hospital in a critical condition

DCI Leonard said: “When they get there, we’ve got a hugely chaotic situation. People were incredibly upset and in shock.
But the reality is nobody who was at that party has come forward to give us a statement or any further information.”

He added: “I would also urge those who were at the party to make contact and tell us what you know

It is vital that we gather as much information as possible to establish what happened in the early hours of that Sunday morning and why.”

Sasha’s mother, Ellet Dalling, said: “What has happened to Sasha has left us devastated. She is currently fighting for her life in hospital with two children asking where their mummy is, what do I tell them?
“Someone must have information to what happened and to come forward.

“Sasha is passionate about standing up for others, please come forward and stand up for Sasha.

“Come forward to help us, I know it is not always easy but imagine if it was your daughter or the mother of your children.

“I believe there are people out there that can help.”

Five males have been arrested in connection with the incident.

Four of the suspects were released on bail until a date in late June while Cameron Deriggs, 18, appeared in court charged with conspiracy to murder

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sasha-johnson-shooting-peckham-police-mother-appeal-b939158.html

Are you saying this doesn't happen everywhere else? How many unsolved murders in Ireland because witnesses never came forward?

kildare lad

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you saying this doesn't happen everywhere else? How many unsolved murders in Ireland because witnesses never came forward?

I think the point has flown right over your head . A high profile activist get shot and none of her 30 friends help to catch the shooter because they know he's black . If the shooter was white what do you think would happen , I'm sure there'd be riots / protests , she's be hailed in the same light as George Floyd , you could be sure her mates couldn't talk to the police quick enough . But instead she gets tumbleweed.

BattleCorp

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you saying this doesn't happen everywhere else? How many unsolved murders in Ireland because witnesses never came forward?

I'd imagine that if the shooter was white, there would be a queue to get into the police station to give a witness statement.