Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Fandymo

Tell me how wrote: »

You are absolutely right.
There is no problem with racism in football.
Aubameyang, Salah, Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford, Ian Wright, etc would all vouch for that.
The current english footballers are wrong to suggest the protests are warranted.
The current English manager is wrong to suggest the protest are warranted.
The English FA are wrong to suggest the protests are warranted.
The report from 2019 that racist incidents reported to Kick it Out had increased by 22% is obviously false.
Players in Italy haven't walked off the pitch because of racist abuse.
And players in Spain who have been targeted have made it all up.
You are right, and everyone who has seen and reported all the above is wrong. Is that it?

And asking about me posting about soccer or in the soccer forum is fcuking ridiculous. For what it's worth, I don't post in the forum because whenever I read it I can't tolerate the blinkered view supporters of all clubs have on all topics. And the international thread is limited to give the current manager a chance to get rid of the current manager posts. So if it's ok with you, I'll keep watching matches on TV and in the real world, and having an opinion on it and expressing that whatever way I want.

I do note you attacked me rather than acknowledging you have misrepresented the argument for kneeling. Duly noted.

As nullzero stated, and you have ignored. The vast majority all abuse is online. There is little to no racism within football stadia in the U.K., and if there is, the culprit is caught and banned.

Social Media companies need to be held to account rather than fans at the ground, but as I said before there is no appetite for that because players need social media to pimp their sponsors latest hair gel or their clubs official noodle sponsor.

The players know the issue, the players know where the issues are coming from, the players refuse to do anything to remedy the issue, and instead pointlessly take a knee, then complain when nothing changes. That’s why I would boo the knee. Because it’s virtue signalling while refusing to do anything worthwhile to solve the problem.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

You are absolutely right.
There is no problem with racism in football.
Aubameyang, Salah, Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford, Ian Wright, etc would all vouch for that.
The current english footballers are wrong to suggest the protests are warranted.
The current English manager is wrong to suggest the protest are warranted.
The English FA are wrong to suggest the protests are warranted.
The report from 2019 that racist incidents reported to Kick it Out had increased by 22% is obviously false.
Players in Italy haven't walked off the pitch because of racist abuse.
And players in Spain who have been targeted have made it all up.
You are right, and everyone who has seen and reported all the above is wrong. Is that it?

And asking about me posting about soccer or in the soccer forum is fcuking ridiculous. For what it's worth, I don't post in the forum because whenever I read it I can't tolerate the blinkered view supporters of all clubs have on all topics. And the international thread is limited to give the current manager a chance to get rid of the current manager posts. So if it's ok with you, I'll keep watching matches on TV and in the real world, and having an opinion on it and expressing that whatever way I want.

I do note you attacked me rather than acknowledging you have misrepresented the argument for kneeling. Duly noted.

This reads like it was quickly Googled and hastily compiled.

I stand by my assertion that you have a lack of real insight on this topic as it appears to be borne out above.

It's amazing to me how you jump to my post "attacking" you once the argument has gotten away from you, that is also duly noted.

Hector Savage

I see Gareth Southgate says "it's time for England fans to unite" - in other-words agree with the taking the knee and shut the f*ck up bigot or face a lifetime ban from English stadiums..

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

This reads like it was quickly Googled and hastily compiled.

I stand by my assertion that you have a lack of real insight on this topic as it appears to be borne out above.

It's amazing to me how you jump to my post "attacking" you once the argument has gotten away from you, that is also duly noted.

Which is why I asked this in post 305

Are they attacking or discussing? Why do you frame it as attacking?

is_that_so

Hector Savage wrote: »

I see Gareth Southgate says "it's time for England fans to unite" - in other-words agree with the taking the knee and shut the f*ck up bigot or face a lifetime ban from English stadiums..

There's nothing to be gained from this pep talk approach and he should stay away from it. All he should be doing is repeating that they will continue to do it.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

I see Gareth Southgate says "it's time for England fans to unite" - in other-words agree with the taking the knee and shut the f*ck up bigot or face a lifetime ban from English stadiums..

In fairness, booing is far worse form than taking a knee...

Hector Savage

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, booing is far worse form than taking a knee...

No it's not, not when taking the knee to that violent group means.

The fans should just turn their backs on it...

Hector Savage

Are any other teams in the Euros taking the knee or is it just England ?

is_that_so

Hector Savage wrote: »

Are any other teams in the Euros taking the knee or is it just England ?

Scotland have said they will do it against England, but not sure it will be for every other game.

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

No it's not, not when taking the knee to that violent group means.

The fans should just turn their backs on it...

Firstly, a movement that is largely peaceful and consists of hundreds of thousands of people if not more. Secondly, they're literally adopting their gesture but doing it independently of BLM.

RandomName2

I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to use peaceful protest to express a view. The view seems to be about police management in the United States. Strange, but okay. The US isn't even really interested in soccer.

But it's equally valid to not want to express a view. That's the whole point isn't it, if it's about freedom to express one's opinion? But if we've got kneeling teams where dissenters would be rejected, or a viewpoint that people who reject the knee should be permanently banned from events, then we are just meandering into empty tokenism. We have it already with massive corporations coloring everything in rainbows in select jurisdictions to gain likes during Pride, but doing it as a lubricant for further money, not because they give two a damn about LGBT rights.

Fandymo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Firstly, a movement that is largely peaceful and consists of hundreds of thousands of people if not more. Secondly, they're literally adopting their gesture but doing it independently of BLM.

Ah yeah, sure the Love Ulster March in Dublin a few years ago was also “largely peaceful”.

Richard Hillman

Hector Savage wrote: »

I see Gareth Southgate says "it's time for England fans to unite" - in other-words agree with the taking the knee and shut the f*ck up bigot or face a lifetime ban from English stadiums..

It's the typical "We need to bring everybody together*"

*Together as in under my way of thinking and nothing else.

RobertKK

Hector Savage wrote: »

Are any other teams in the Euros taking the knee or is it just England ?

Wales, Switzerland, Belgium and England have taken the knee.

Italy, Turkey, Denmark, Finland, Russia, Croatia, Austria, North Macedonia, Netherlands and Ukraine have not taken the knee.

Mitch Connor

Hector Savage wrote: »

No it's not, not when taking the knee to that violent group means.

The fans should just turn their backs on it...

What a rubbish take.

1. no one is taking a knee TO the organization that call themselves BLM. They are, at worst, taking a knee WITH them.
2. Taking a knee predates BLM as the org it is now.
3. Kapernick started it in it current form, before BLM, as a form of peaceful protest against systemic racism and police brutality - and was blackballed from the NFL for it.
4. The England team and players in England have been very clear that their taking a knee is nothing to do with BLM the organization and is purely about showing their belief people should be treated equally, fairly and with respect.

Black Lives Matter is an ethos that is apart from the organization that calls itself that. IMO Black Lives Matter and I would stand with the England players on this, but the BLM organization are a bunch of fruitcakes and their attempt a liberated areas of cities was harmful and wreckless - causing much harm to the main ideals of the Black Lives Matter ethos.

I don't support the BLM organization, but I absolutely support Black Lives Matter, the ethos, and anyone booing the England team (or any PL team for further example) are absolutely booing the idea that Black Lives Matter, and are actively booing somethings whose goal is equality and respect.

extra gravy

The more England win the less boos there will be, the small number doing it in the first place really couldn't give a shït about players taking the knee once they're winning. Suddenly they won't care about BLM/Marxism anymore, as if they actually did in the first place.

MrMusician18

extra gravy wrote: »

The more England win the less boos there will be, the small number doing it in the first place really couldn't give a shït about players taking the knee once they're winning. Suddenly they won't care about BLM/Marxism anymore, as if they actually did in the first place.

It's not just English supporters doing it though.

Tchaikovsky

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's the typical "We need to being everybody together*"

*Together as in under my way of thinking and nothing else.

Or stop booing your own players and the opposition's national anthem, you numbskulls.

Faugheen

Hector Savage wrote: »

No it's not, not when taking the knee to that violent group means.

The fans should just turn their backs on it...

93% of all demonstrations entirely peaceful.

Seriously you can keep calling it a ‘violent group’ all you want but you are wrong every time.

extra gravy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not just English supporters doing it though.

Ah yes those bastions of non-discrimination - Russia and Hungary.

Mitch Connor

Even if it was just the English players doing this.... so what? What argument does that 'win'?

Tchaikovsky

extra gravy wrote: »

Ah yes those bastions of non-discrimination - Russia and Hungary.

No, it's because both of those countries suffered for decades under Marxist rule, or something.

Fr D Maugire

Fandymo wrote: »

As nullzero stated, and you have ignored. The vast majority all abuse is online. There is little to no racism within football stadia in the U.K., and if there is, the culprit is caught and banned.

Social Media companies need to be held to account rather than fans at the ground, but as I said before there is no appetite for that because players need social media to pimp their sponsors latest hair gel or their clubs official noodle sponsor.

The players know the issue, the players know where the issues are coming from, the players refuse to do anything to remedy the issue, and instead pointlessly take a knee, then complain when nothing changes. That’s why I would boo the knee. Because it’s virtue signalling while refusing to do anything worthwhile to solve the problem.

Yeah, Tell Me How earlier on the thread mentioned how protests had brought changes like Desegregation, Women's rights, Gay marriage etc. Now leave out the fact, those were all relatively straight forward changes to law in comparison to much more broader subjects like ending racism or things like poverty or criminality.

But in some of those movements in the past, people had to make real sacrifices, their lives, going to prison, facing real violence, but people believed in their cause and were willing to face those risks. Think back to the Black Power salute at the 68 Olympics, those guys faced being kicked of the Olympic team, their main goal in life. These so called modern protesters don't even want to sacrifice their social media accounts. We want change, but we don't want to make any real effort to bring about change.

jakiah

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Even if it was just the English players doing this.... so what? What argument does that 'win'?

Using the logic presented in this thread not wanting to see kneeling happen before each game is racist. So presumbaly the countries who arent kneeling (e.g. most of them) are racist?

Mitch Connor

jakiah wrote: »

Using the logic presented in this thread not wanting to see kneeling happen before each game is racist. So presumbaly the countries who arent kneeling (e.g. most of them) are racist?

Is there a difference between wanting a different gesture (other sides are standing, pointing to the respect badge) and actively booing the gesture?

Booing either gesture, which is speaking to equality and respect, is racist.

jakiah

You didnt answer the question, are the teams not kneeling racist?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is there a difference between wanting a different gesture (other sides are standing, pointing to the respect badge) and actively booing the gesture?

Right, and is anyone booing them?

Booing either gesture, which is speaking to equality and respect, is racist.

Some are booing it because they are racist, others are booing it because it is wholly inappropriate.

Mitch Connor

jakiah wrote: »

You didnt answer the question, are the teams not kneeling racist?


Right, and is anyone booing them?


Some are booing it because they are racist, others are booing it because it is wholly inappropriate.

If they are doing an alternative gesture as a mark of respect and equality then no.

I don't know.

I don't think there is a valid argument for it being 'wholly inappropriate' and the people saying that is their reason for booing, are lying (to either themselves or others) and are racist.

jakiah

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If they are doing an alternative gesture as a mark of respect and equality then no.

So the ones not doing anything ARE racist?

I don't know.

I'll tell you, teams doing alternative gestures have not been booed.

I don't think there is a valid argument for it being 'wholly inappropriate' and the people saying that is their reason for booing, are lying (to either themselves or others) and are racist.

Football fans arent interested in your 'valid argument'. Some see inserting political theatre associated with the BLM movement into matchday as inappropriate, they werent waiting for your permission.

Mitch Connor

jakiah wrote: »

So the ones not doing anything ARE racist?


I'll tell you, teams doing alternative gestures have not been booed.


Football fans arent interested in your 'valid argument'. Some see inserting political theatre associated with the BLM movement into matchday as inappropriate, they werent waiting for your permission.

The players have said that their kneeling is nothing to do with the BLM orgnaization, just as it wasn't when Kapernick did it.

Lying about a connection is not a valid reason, and using it as your reason (and lying to do so) means you have no valid reason, and are booing because you don't like the idea of black people being treated equally and with resepect.

Do the fans boo when players wear a Poppy? Do they boo the national anthem? They are both policatal theatre as well. Did fans boo liverpool players when they came out in support of the Dock workers? That is political theatre.

The fans are booing because they don't like the idea that Black Lives Matter, and that is racist.

extra gravy

jakiah wrote: »

it is wholly inappropriate.

The players who suffer racist abuse on a regular basis think it is appropriate. Thier opinion hold more weight that yours or anyone else here that disagrees with it.