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Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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    #182
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 17,077 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    i dont like the taking the knee due to the fact that they will be doing it forever. to highlight injustice and racism in the world? thats gonna be around forever unfortunately.


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    #183
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Another stupid take in a thread full of them.
    Pick it apart there for me


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    #184
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Pick it apart there for me

    No thanks, I've no interest in repeating the points already made in the thread. Try reading it.


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    #185
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    extra gravy wrote: »
    No thanks, I've no interest in repeating the points already made in the thread. Try reading it.

    Your points stagger from wrong to dumb and back again


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    #186
    BringBackMick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭BringBackMick


    https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/chiedozie-ogbene-calls-for-uefa-action-after-ireland-booed-by-crowd-for-taking-a-knee-in-budapest-40517667.html

    The only action that UEFA could possibly take is against Ireland for making a political statement !

    I'd love to hear the reasoning behind choosing to do this at the Hungary game and not the Andorra match?

    The cynic in me would consider it was a deliberate inflammatory act due to the government in place in Hungary which is conservative nationalist supported by around 50% of the electorate

    Since when do the Irish football team start interfering in foreign politics ?

    Its needs to stop


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    #187
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    GT89 wrote: »
    I can't understand why they are still taking the knee in Europe for something that happened over a year ago in the US

    Because the first people to stop doing it will get eaten alive by the mob.


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    #188
    Dante
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭Dante


    From my own experience there is still a huge problem with racism amongst a certain cohert of fans in England. My local club was Millwall, if I had a euro for every time I heard some geezer shouting racist abuse at opposing players/fans at the Den I'd be a wealthy man. No doubt some of these gentlemen were England season ticket holders and would without question boo any players taking the knee with complete contempt.

    While most clubs aren't as bad as Millwall, I suspect there would be a small section of fans of many clubs who share similar sentiments.


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    #189
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    It must also be pointed out that BLM is very much a preoccupation of the symbolically moral in the Anglosphere and not a huge amount beyond that. They've also created a problem for themselves in so far as - when do they stop kneeling? When racism ends?


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    #190
    BringBackMick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭BringBackMick


    PeadarCo wrote: »
    Sport and Politics have always been intertwined. Look at the Roman empire "bread and circus".

    Even within football you have Man City and PSG which are used a form of sports washing. They are just two high profile examples in football alone. You will find plenty more not just in football but pretty much any sport of any significance. Heck even the GAA hasn't been immune with photo's of bishops in previous years throwing the ball in in major matches and the whole national anthem. Forget that all, national Athens are political so if you want to keep sports and politics separate you have to get rid of national anthems at sporting events. Then again that might not be enough because nation states are political constructs so to keep sports and politics separate you need to get rid of all national teams. I know I am being facetious(I am not suggesting getting rid of national anthems or teams just highlighting them as an example of where sport and politics are intertwined) but politics and sport have always been intertwined to some degree or other and will always be. If you really want sports and politics separate you are opening very nasty can of worms.

    Normally when people say that they want to keep sport and politics separate they are are talking about political viewpoints they don't agree with/don't care or feel strongly about.

    The knee taking is a politically charged gesture

    There are much better ways to raise awareness against racism.


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    #191
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Dante wrote: »
    From my own experience there is still a huge problem with racism amongst a certain cohert of fans in England. My local club was Millwall, if I had a euro for every time I heard some geezer shouting racist abuse at opposing players/fans at the Den I'd be a wealthy man. No doubt some of these gentlemen were England season ticket holders and would without question boo any players taking the knee with complete contempt.

    While most clubs aren't as bad as Millwall, I suspect there would be a small section of fans of many clubs who share similar sentiments.

    Yep, the few here whinging about players taking the knee clearly know nothing about English football and how engrained racism still is.


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    #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Politics should not be in sport. Why are they taking a knee about American issues with their police?

    It's a year later. Time for everyone to move on. There are much worse things going in the world.

    Maybe a knee for Yemen or Hong Kong? Or are only certain political ideas allowed.

    This is exactly where I stand on it. Keep politics out of sport, because it's much easier to enforce than allowing selective politics to be used. Who gets to decide that the killing of George Floyd should be brought to the forefront of sporting consciousness, and why not, as you say, the various other global crises? Far easier to be consistent in keeping ALL politics out of sport.


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    #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    It must also be pointed out that BLM is very much a preoccupation of the symbolically moral in the Anglosphere and not a huge amount beyond that. They've also created a problem for themselves in so far as - when do they stop kneeling? When racism ends?

    This is going to sounds glib, but I think it will end when black players get fed up with it, as they are starting to. They will eventually be like a bored Roman emperor shooing away the white appeasers.


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    #194
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Your points stagger from wrong to dumb and back again

    Your "points" are just the usual "BLM bad" drivel and illustrate that you clearly know nothing about racism in football.


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    #195
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Zero issue personally with players taking the knee.

    You could tell some of the England players were disappointed/upset with the booing as well (Saka after the Austria match especially).
    So some of the England fans aren't exactly helping their team with their actions either.


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    #196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Yep, the few here whinging about players taking the knee clearly know nothing about English football and how engrained racism still is.

    I really don't think there is much of a problem with racism anymore. I trust the likes of John Barnes, a guy who actually experienced real racism during his career when English football was a dark and ugly place in the 80's. I really don't see any barriers for black players anymore, and have never heard racist chants or insults at any of the many stadiums I've been to in England. There is zero tolerance for racist abuse and it has been taboo for at least 10-15 years bar the odd isolated incident.


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    #197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    If this continues to happen as fans return to games I suspect the end will come for this protest/gesture. The games authorities will have a hard job to paint it (the game) as inclusive while the booing keeps happening. Thus it will be dropped in favour of something else.

    It should be replaced by a decade of the Rosary.


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    #198
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    I don't agree with the booing. Everyone should have a right to protest although some causes are more acceptable to the establishment than others. Would be nice to see how an Anti-Israeli protest would go down. Could happen in the Euros btw.

    Players should also have the right not to protest and no player should be put under pressure to do so if they don't want to.

    There used to be this thing in US Golf where military service people would hold the flag on one of the holes while the players were putting. They flag was changed to the stars and stripes for this hole. Players were expected to shake hands with the service person when walking to the next hole. Many of the players were from other parts of the world and may not have agreed with US foreign policy. I can only imagine the media sh1t fit there would have been if a player indicated dissent by not doing the hand shake.

    Was at US basketball game with the family and we sat through the national anthem. Got a few dirty looks. Not my anthem buddy.


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    #199
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    This is exactly where I stand on it. Keep politics out of sport, because it's much easier to enforce than allowing selective politics to be used. Who gets to decide that the killing of George Floyd should be brought to the forefront of sporting consciousness, and why not, as you say, the various other global crises? Far easier to be consistent in keeping ALL politics out of sport.
    Does the poppy not classify as politics?
    It is definitely a political symbol.
    English football has an unhealthy obsession with it imo.
    The below is scarily spot on

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/nov/12/david-squires-on-football-and-the-poppy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other


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    #200
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It gives an impression that it is the only thing football can do and to an extent is a for or against scenario. The problem it tries to highlight is largely non-existent on the pitch and I agree with others that it is becoming a tired gesture.


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    #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gmisk wrote: »
    Does the poppy not classify as politics?
    It is definitely a political symbol.
    English football has an unhealthy obsession with it imo.
    The below is scarily spot on

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/nov/12/david-squires-on-football-and-the-poppy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I would say get rid of the poppy as well. It has taken on a weird life of its own in the last few years.


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    #202
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It gives an impression that it is the only thing football can do and to an extent is a for or against scenario. The problem it tries to highlight is largely non-existent on the pitch and I agree with others that it is becoming a tired gesture.
    "Largely non existent on the pitch"
    What absolute nonsense plenty of recent enough incidents of racism on the pitch.
    If you want a euro linked one try the below
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56747993
    There is a reason Kudela from the Czech Republic will not be at the euros.


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    #203
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    gmisk wrote: »
    "Largely non existent on the pitch"
    What absolute nonsense plenty of recent enough incidents of racism on the pitch.
    If you want a euro linked one try the below
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56747993
    There is a reason Kudela from the Czech Republic will not be at the euros.
    Yeah, one case is not a definition of plenty. The main problem is not on the pitch and clubs continue to ignore that. Where it occurs on the pitch it is punished.


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    #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It gives an impression that it is the only thing football can do and to an extent is a for or against scenario. The problem it tries to highlight is largely non-existent on the pitch and I agree with others that it is becoming a tired gesture.

    I don't even know what it is they are trying to highlight. That racism exists? Or is police brutality? I think a far bigger threat and danger to black people comes from other black people. But that's a uncomfortable conversation nobody wants to have. Far easier to feel good about tackling the non-existent nazis that deal in uncomfortable truths.


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    #205
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yeah, one case is not a definition of plenty. The main problem is not on the pitch and clubs continue to ignore that. Where it occurs on the pitch it is punished.
    Did I say plenty?
    You said largely non existent which is nonsense
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jan/30/football-related-racist-incidents-sharp-rise-police-kick-it-out
    If you look at the incidents reported to police it is getting worse.
    Clubs can clearly do a lot more on and off the pitch.


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    #206
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I really don't think there is much of a problem with racism anymore.

    https://twitter.com/intermilan/status/1402334265904402440?s=19

    From a player that was recently abused. But the boards experts say it isn't a problem anymore and when players take a stand taken against it, it's because they're "sermonising."


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    #207
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    gmisk wrote: »
    Did I say plenty?
    You said largely non existent which is nonsense
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jan/30/football-related-racist-incidents-sharp-rise-police-kick-it-out
    If you look at the incidents reported to police it is getting worse.

    Yeah, you did.


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    #208
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,081 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Yeah, you did.
    I said plenty of recent enough incidents ok...and gave you the stats to back it up, which show it is increasing if anything.
    Racism on the pitch is not "largely non existent" as you put it.


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    #209
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    extra gravy wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/intermilan/status/1402334265904402440?s=19

    From a player that was recently abused. But the boards experts say it isn't a problem anymore and when players take a stand taken against it, it's because they're "sermonising."
    That article is interesting in that it highlights where a lot of that abuse occurs. The main problems are still fans and of course the anonymity of social media.


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    #210
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    I wonder how many footballers are gonna protest the thousands of workers who died getting Qatar ready for the world cup , so multi millionaires can kick a ball around a field . Will world cup 2022 be worth the 6500 who've died so far ???


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    #211
    Dante
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭Dante


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Yep, the few here whinging about players taking the knee clearly know nothing about English football and how engrained racism still is.

    The lowlight was the League 1 play-off final against Bradford at Wembley in 2017. Hundreds of coked up idiots singing 'fúck off back to Pakistan' and 'London is ours' etc for the entire game. Never seen anything like it, never went back again after that.


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