Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Foxtrol

jakiah wrote: »

OK. Are you suggesting we should have UEFA sanction political gestures associated with being for/against a United Ireland as part of football games? The we can alll have a big debate about what the resultant booing/cheering actually means!

So we've cleared up that multiple separate groups can use the same slogan and not all be tarnished by the actions of the worst that use it?

jakiah

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is the typical 'keep politics out of sport for thee, but not for me' mindset.

I oppose both the BLM kneeling and the jingoistic poppy nonsense in football, so theres that.

jakiah

Foxtrol wrote: »

So we've cleared up that multiple separate groups can use the same slogan and not all be tarnished by the actions of the worst that use it?

If you like. Probably best to use a slogan not previously used by 'the worst' though. Its not as if we are short of options.

MisterAnarchy

Hector Savage wrote: »

You just know the people supporting the taking the knee are disappointed there was no booing in Glasgow today!!

There are no racists in Scotland you see, they are all afraid of being sanctioned under the new Hate Crime law.

Similar Hate Crime Laws need to be introduced elsewhere...

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it disgraceful? The footballers are entertainers, and booing is a perfectly valid reaction to being displeased with the entertainment provided.

Football being entertainment shouldn’t be taken as a carte-blanche for fans to behave in any manner they want just because they aren’t entertained — but even beyond that basic point there also seems to me to be a marked difference between booing a player for diving or a team for underperforming and actually booing someone who is taking part in a gesture which is deeply meaningful to them. I don’t like to think that fans would take the view that simply because football is entertainment means they can just boo and jeer at a player who is visibly praying or doing a religious gesture if they feel displeased by it.

Case in point, as an example, how would people here react if fans from another country (let’s say England for added spice) booed and drowned out the entirety of Amhrán an bhFiann with jeers? Would it be OK to call that disgraceful? Bear in mind ...anthems are politically charged things too, as well as our anthem having an association with and proudly sung by every manifestation of armed Republican movements.

WrenBoy

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Football being entertainment shouldn’t be taken as a carte-blanche for fans to behave in any manner they want just because they aren’t entertained — but even beyond that basic point there also seems to me to be a marked difference between booing a player for diving or a team for underperforming and actually booing someone who is taking part in a gesture which is deeply meaningful to them. I don’t like to think that fans would take the view that simply because football is entertainment means they can just boo and jeer at a player who is visibly praying or doing a religious gesture if they feel displeased by it.

Case in point, as an example, how would people here react if fans from another country (let’s say England for added spice) booed and drowned out the entirety of Amhrán an bhFiann with jeers? Would it be OK to call that disgraceful?

blm symbol =/= a country's national anthem.
Fans have booed national anthems and a million other things but then people get on with it because its sports.

Omackeral

Poland vs Slovakia and no knee taken. Guess every single player on those teams is racist and/or stupid.

Foxtrol

WrenBoy wrote: »

blm symbol =/= a country's national anthem.
Fans have booed national anthems and a million other things but then people get on with it because its sports.

Agreed, booing and jeering a peaceful protest against discrimination, injustice, and inequality is not the same as booing and jeering a song.

ArthurDayne

WrenBoy wrote: »

blm symbol =/= a country's national anthem.
Fans have booed national anthems and a million other things but then people get on with it because its sports.

See the problem with this line of argument is that it can be used either way. Can’t I just as easily say, why don’t you just advocate that people show respect to players taking the knee and get on with it yourself?

jakiah

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Case in point, as an example, how would people here react if fans from another country (let’s say England for added spice) booed and drowned out the entirety of Amhrán an bhFiann with jeers? Would it be OK to call that disgraceful? Bear in mind ...anthems are politically charged things too, as well as our anthem having an association with and proudly sung by every manifestation of armed Republican movements.

This literally happens all the time...

ArthurDayne

jakiah wrote: »

This literally happens all the time...

Yeah, and do you think it’s a good way to behave? And then, bear in mind, that in this instance we are discussing not just booing at a song, but booing at black players doing an anti racism gesture.

Foxtrol

jakiah wrote: »

I oppose both the BLM kneeling and the jingoistic poppy nonsense in football, so theres that.

Would you support an Irish crowd that booed a poppy wreath laying ceremony?

jakiah

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Yeah, and do you think it’s a good way to behave?

****housery is part and parcel of football support. I've always enjoyed that side of it tbh.

Football is not for special little snowflakes and their hurt feelings.

jakiah

Foxtrol wrote: »

Would you support an Irish crowd that booed a poppy wreath laying ceremony?

As part of a football match? Probably yeah.

In its proper context, probably not.

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The footballers are entertainers

They're also human beings. The lack of empathy shown by some posters here is unsurprising though, I suppose that would be too "woke".

Foxtrol

jakiah wrote: »

****housery is part and parcel of football support. I've always enjoyed that side of it tbh.

Football is not for special little snowflakes and their hurt feelings.

Very funny of you making those statements.

The only 'snowflakes' with 'hurt feelings' in this situation are the group of grown men in the crowd that are making up reasons to throw hissy fits each game because the men they spend money following around choose to peacefully protest for a few seconds before the start of their game.

Foxtrol

extra gravy wrote: »

They're also human beings. The lack of empathy shown by some posters here is unsurprising though, I suppose that would be too "woke".

They just have a lack of empathy for things they don't care about, like discrimination, injustice, and inequality..

jakiah

Foxtrol wrote: »

Very funny of you making those statements.

The only 'snowflakes' with 'hurt feelings' in this situation are the group of grown men in the crowd that are making up reasons to throw hissy fits each game because the men they spend money following around choose to peacefully protest for a few seconds before the start of their game.

Yawn, you'll all move on to your next outrage project as soon as this stupid political protest fades out of football. Looks like its happening already, no kneeling at Poland Slovakia either.

Bobblehats

Omackeral wrote: »

Poland vs Slovakia and no knee taken. Guess every single player on those teams is racist and/or stupid.

No surprise it’s only a handful of nations who got themselves into that particular pickle

Five finger job. Sweden you can expect and us if we were there obviously but the only real surprise thus far is Holland, who didn’t

jakiah

Bobblehats wrote: »

No surprise it’s only a handful of nations who got themselves into that particular pickle

Five finger job. Sweden you can expect and us if we were there obviously but the only real surprise thus far is Holland, who didn’t

Ah we'd probably have applied this 'non-political' protest selectively for countries who needed to hear the message, like we did against Andorra/Hungary.

JP Liz V1

Omackeral wrote: »

Poland vs Slovakia and no knee taken. Guess every single player on those teams is racist and/or stupid.

I thought it was happening before every match, I am surprised

jakiah

Can we get these internet social justice types in to support VAR next, that'll be gone in a couple of weeks too

ArthurDayne

jakiah wrote: »

****housery is part and parcel of football support. I've always enjoyed that side of it tbh.

Football is not for special little snowflakes and their hurt feelings.

OK — but at the same time you think it’s OK for these big tough non-snowflakes to get so upset over players doing an anti-racism gesture that they have to express that welled-up upset in the form of boos and jeers? And that it’s OK for these hard men to have hurt feelings about people having the audacity to say that booing at players, particularly black players, taking part in an anti-racism gesture which bears meaning to those players might leave those big tough men open to being accused of having racist motivations in some form? And then these absolutely-not-snowflakes can go have a little cry about “something-something-BBC-liberal-Marxist-agenda-nasty-person-called-me-a-racist-and-all-I-did-was-boo-and-jeer-at-black-players-doing-a-gesture-against-racism-that-probably-has-deep-meaning-to-them”.

The problem with these views is that they actually make it harder to make nuanced points about one’s misgivings about Taking the Knee. I’m not overly enamoured with the whole thing myself and, yeah, in some contexts it’s tokenistic and driven by social media witch hunt mentality.... but I don’t see why that should preclude me or anyone else on here from acknowledging that for many of the players and people in football it means something deeply meaningful and therefore that booing/jeering at those people doing it is just nasty behaviour.

You have to be able to call the bad stuff from your side of the argument, otherwise there is no room to call the other side self-righteous.

jakiah

ArthurDayne wrote: »

OK — but at the same time you think it’s OK for these big tough non-snowflakes to get so upset over players doing an anti-racism gesture that they have to express that welled-up upset in the form of boos and jeers? And that it’s OK for these hard men to have hurt feelings about people having the audacity to say that booing at players, particularly black players, taking part in an anti-racism gesture which bears meaning to those players might leave those big tough men open to being accused of having racist motivations in some form? And then these absolutely-not-snowflakes can go have a little cry about “something-something-BBC-liberal-Marxist-agenda-nasty-person-called-me-a-racist-and-all-I-did-was-boo-and-jeer-at-black-players-doing-a-gesture-against-racism-that-probably-has-deep-meaning-to-them”.

The problem with these views is that they actually make it harder to make nuanced points about one’s misgivings about Taking the Knee. I’m not overly enamoured with the whole thing myself and, yeah, in some contexts it’s tokenistic and driven by social media witch hunt mentality.... but I don’t see why that should preclude me or anyone else on here from acknowledging that for many of the players and people in football it means something deeply meaningful and therefore that booing/jeering at those people doing it is just nasty behaviour.

Would you stop, its clear as day youve never seen the inside of a football ground. People boo, get over it.

suicide_circus

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I thought it was happening before every match, I am surprised

Is it mainly nations with a colonial past engaging in a cheap act of contrition for the sins of their father's father's father's father?

Bobblehats

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is it mainly nations with a colonial past engaging in a cheap act of contrition for the sins of their father's father's father's father?

Only those. Sans Holland but also the few willing, caught up in their slipstream

jakiah

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is it mainly nations with a colonial past engaging in a cheap act of contrition for the sins of their father's father's father's father?

Depends who you ask

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

They're also human beings. The lack of empathy shown by some posters here is unsurprising though, I suppose that would be too "woke".

Well I'm a human being, too, but it doesn't mean I can just shove aside the main purpose of my job to give time to my cause du jour or my politics. I would quickly go broke if I tried.

MarkEadie

ArthurDayne wrote: »

OK — but at the same time you think it’s OK for these big tough non-snowflakes to get so upset over players doing an anti-racism gesture that they have to express that welled-up upset in the form of boos and jeers? And that it’s OK for these hard men to have hurt feelings about people having the audacity to say that booing at players, particularly black players, taking part in an anti-racism gesture which bears meaning to those players might leave those big tough men open to being accused of having racist motivations in some form? And then these absolutely-not-snowflakes can go have a little cry about “something-something-BBC-liberal-Marxist-agenda-nasty-person-called-me-a-racist-and-all-I-did-was-boo-and-jeer-at-black-players-doing-a-gesture-against-racism-that-probably-has-deep-meaning-to-them”.

The problem with these views is that they actually make it harder to make nuanced points about one’s misgivings about Taking the Knee. I’m not overly enamoured with the whole thing myself and, yeah, in some contexts it’s tokenistic and driven by social media witch hunt mentality.... but I don’t see why that should preclude me or anyone else on here from acknowledging that for many of the players and people in football it means something deeply meaningful and therefore that booing/jeering at those people doing it is just nasty behaviour.

You have to be able to call the bad stuff from your side of the argument, otherwise there is no room to call the other side self-righteous.

Good Post. Hit the nail on the head there.

Polar101

jakiah wrote: »

Would you stop, its clear as day youve never seen the inside of a football ground. People boo, get over it.

I had a season ticket for over 20 years. I never saw or heard anyone boo during a pre-match show of respect. I think if anyone did, they'd get 'sorted out' pretty quickly too.

There was a lot of booing for referees and opposing players, though. Which has nothing to do with this.