Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it doesn't mean I can just shove aside the main purpose of my job to give time to my cause du jour or my politics

It's a ten second gesture at the start of a game, get a grip.

jackboy

It will be interesting to see if the likes of England continue taking the knee for the rest of their matches. I believe one significant reason teams take the knee is because they see it as fashionable. There are so many teams not taking the knee now that it seems to be going out of fashion.

I know if they give it up now it will prove that they never did if for genuine reasons but I still think there is a good chance they will stop.

Necro

MarkEadie wrote: »

Great post. I would also add that his "but I have a mixed race daughter" story is up to the reader whether to believe it or not.

Threadbanned

Foxtrol

archfi wrote: »

The gesture is indelibly connected to the BLM organisation.
Political getsures do not belong at football matches.
The gesture is simply wrong and divisive.

The group of black players, their teammates, their manager, the FA have repeatedly told you why they are doing it, you're simply making the choice not to listen to them.

It was bad enough not being able to control yourselves and be respectful in whatever way they chose to protest initially but they have now specifically distanced themselves from the organisation that triggers you so much. You couldn't just take that as a win but you won't be happy until the black players either shut up or protest in a way that you choose for them.

It is a sad and pathetic reaction but not surprising at all - certain people will always find an issue with black people protesting, no matter how they do it.

archfi

Foxtrol wrote: »

The group of black players, their teammates, their manager, the FA have repeatedly told you why they are doing it, you're simply making the choice not to listen to them.

It was bad enough not being able to control yourselves and be respectful in whatever way they chose to protest initially but they have now specifically distanced themselves from the organisation that triggers you so much. You couldn't just take that as a win but you won't be happy until the black players either shut up or protest in a way that you choose for them.

It is a sad and pathetic reaction but not surprising at all - certain people will always find an issue with black people protesting, no matter how they do it.

I am disagreeing that the gesture chosen by the Irish team and the English team is the correct one.
I'm not triggered - I see a missed opportunity, a doubling down which will cause much division and zero positives.
I've already posted three times that the greatest opportunity to affect real change was by the England squad in 2019 in Bulgaria. They got halfway there but backed down as a team and manager so there is precedent for them choosing the wrong thing.
I'm also on the same side as John Barnes - I'm very comfortable with that.

Foxtrol

jackboy wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the likes of England continue taking the knee for the rest of their matches. I believe one significant reason teams take the knee is because they see it as fashionable. There are so many teams not taking the knee now that it seems to be going out of fashion.

I know if they give it up now it will prove that they never did if for genuine reasons but I still think there is a good chance they will stop.

And a significant reason people boo is because it is 'fashionable' amongst those they associate themselves with.

I haven't yet seen a video where one of them is challenged in an interview and can hold a coherent argument about it. It is all about how they 'feel' - it is BREXIT all over again.

jackboy

Foxtrol wrote: »

And a significant reason people boo is because it is 'fashionable' amongst those they associate themselves with.

I haven't yet seen a video where one of them is challenged in an interview and can hold a coherent argument about it. It is all about how they 'feel' - it is BREXIT all over again.

Of course. There is no doubt that there are a few racists involved but the majority are likely just following the gang.

extra gravy

jakiah wrote: »

Yawn, you'll all move on to your next outrage project

Remind me again who's being triggered by some players making a gesture?

Foxtrol

archfi wrote: »

I am disagreeing that the gesture chosen by the Irish team and the English team is the correct one.
I'm not triggered - I see a missed opportunity, a doubling down which will cause much division and zero positives.
I've already posted three times that the greatest opportunity to affect real change was by the England squad in 2019 in Bulgaria. They got halfway there but backed down as a team and manager so there is precedent for them choosing the wrong thing.
I'm also on the same side as John Barnes - I'm very comfortable with that.

Barnes is entitled to his opinion but I think his argument is completely flawed. Sure the players aren't going to fix racism, did they ever claim taking a knee would? What they can do is highlight it, even the boos themselves are a reminder of it (that and how toxic England and football culture is).

Along with Barnes, you're also on the same side as racists who want them to stop. I don't see the positives from giving in to racists.

The knee itself was a concession to those 'outraged' by the form of a black man peacefully protesting - taking a knee was seen as a more respectful way of doing it. You're fooling yourself if you think a sizeable portion of the boo group would be satisfied if they all switched to another sign of protest.

archfi

Foxtrol wrote: »

Barnes is entitled to his opinion but I think his argument is completely flawed. Sure the players aren't going to fix racism, did they ever claim taking a knee would? What they can do is highlight it, even the boos themselves are a reminder of it (that and how toxic England and football culture is).

Along with Barnes, you're also on the same side as racists who want them to stop. I don't see the positives from giving in to racists.

The knee itself was a concession to those 'outraged' by the form of a black man peacefully protesting - taking a knee was seen as a more respectful way of doing it. You're fooling yourself if you think a sizeable portion of the boo group would be satisfied if they all switched to another sign of protest.

Talk about triggered.:rolleyes:
Good night.

Timberrrrrrrr

Here's a novel idea, if the English team taking the knee bothers people so much then maybe just turn off the football, don't watch the match, that way then you don't have to watch those horrific few seconds where they choose to make thier point.

Foxtrol

archfi wrote: »

Talk about triggered.:rolleyes:
Good night.

I think you need the sleep as that doesn't remotely make any sense

You are beyond naive if you believe racists aren't loving the people the are booing black players protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality. That is the side you've chosen to support - it is a fact.

Sweetemotion

Is John Barnes a racist now?

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think you need the sleep as that doesn't remotely make any sense

You are beyond naive if you believe racists aren't loving the people the are booing black players protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality. That is the side you've chosen to support - it is a fact.

If taking a knee is helping racists gain support surely it is doing to opposite of what it is intended to do?

I see people here giving explanations of why they feel taking a knee isn't having the desired effect and people like you are saying they've chosen to support the racists because of that. What unbelievable sh1thousery, the nerve it must take to write that and post it is beyond me.

We all want racism out of football, just because something is being carried out against racism it doesn't mean it is beyond analysis and those finding fault with it aren't automatically racist or supporting racists.

Omackeral

Foxtrol wrote: »

Along with Barnes, you're also on the same side as racists who want them to stop. I don't see the positives from giving in to racists.

I'm fairly indifferent to it but if I were to choose I'd be in favour of stopping it before kick-off. Which causes do you deem worthy and which do you not? How is it decided? For the sake of balance and to overtly express myself, I believe anyone being racist through language/banners/chants in a football stadium should face a significant and lengthy ban.

Omackeral

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think you need the sleep as that doesn't remotely make any sense

You are beyond naive if you believe racists aren't loving the people the are booing black players protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality. That is the side you've chosen to support - it is a fact.

You keep saying they're booing the black players. White players are doing the gesture too.

Foxtrol

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Is John Barnes a racist now?

Who said that? Is someone having basic comprehension troubles?

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who said that? Is someone having basic comprehension troubles?

I believe you said he's on the same side as the racists. A curious position for a black man to be in.

Sweetemotion

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who said that? Is someone having basic comprehension troubles?

You said it.

Omackeral

nullzero wrote: »

I believe you said he's on the same side as the racists. A curious position for a black man to be in.

It's almost as if there's shades of grey at play isn't it? It's not just black and white. How apt.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

I believe you said he's on the same side as the racists. A curious position for a black man to be in.

He said that the poster is on the same side as Barnes and the racists in wanting the protests to stop.

Not that Barnes is in agreement with racists, which you are trying to imply.

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

Along with Barnes, you're also on the same side as racists who want them to stop. I don't see the positives from giving in to racists.

For those who may have missed it.

Foxtrol

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm fairly indifferent to it but if I were to choose I'd be in favour of stopping it before kick-off. Which causes do you deem worthy and which do you not? How is it decided? For the sake of balance and to overtly express myself, I believe anyone being racist through language/banners/chants in a football stadium should face a significant and lengthy ban.

Genie is out of the bottle on this one. Setting up a more rigid approval structure for every protest and associated punishments is a whole other story.

I'd feel similar about fans booing a moment of silence or remembrance ceremony. Just show some basic level of respect.

Omackeral wrote: »

You keep saying they're booing the black players. White players are doing the gesture too.

It is true, they are booing both black and white players protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

He said that the poster is on the same side as Barnes and the racists in wanting the protests to stop.

Not that Barnes is in agreement with racists, which you are trying to imply.

So you see all booing of taking the knee as racist with no other explanation but you're also happy to bend the words of others you agree with to make them look less ridiculous?

Foxtrol

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You said it.

I did not.

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

I did not.

How should we interpret your assertion of John Barnes being on the same side as the racists then?

Omackeral

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd feel similar about fans booing a moment of silence or remembrance ceremony. Just show some basic level of respect.

My very first post on this thread said I'm against the booing. It's possible to be against the booing but disagree with the kneeling.

Foxtrol

Omackeral wrote: »

It's almost as if there's shades of grey at play isn't it? It's not just black and white. How apt.

Interested in where you see any shade of grey?

There are two major sides:
- The players want to continue their chosen form of protest against discrimination, injustice, and inequality.
- A group of 'fans' who boo and jeer them for their chosen form of protest against discrimination, injustice, and inequality.

There are others who disagree silently or talk about their disagreement or don't care at all - to me these aren't really part of the core of the situation right now and aren't who I am posting about. BTW I'd put Barnes in this periphery group unless we have videos of him out there booing.

Omackeral

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is true, they are booing both black and white players protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality.

You keep exclusively mentioning the black players in your posts though.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Here's a novel idea, if the English team taking the knee bothers people so much then maybe just turn off the football, don't watch the match, that way then you don't have to watch those horrific few seconds where they choose to make thier point.

Or....

Do exactly as they do now. Boo the gesture they disagree with for the "horrific few seconds" and then rapturously support the footballers play football for 90 minutes.