Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

We'll bring that home for a minute, shall we? Did the workers and customers in Eurospar Hartstown have this luxury when they were barricaded into the shop and abused and threatened because of their skin colour? Racists exist in every race and against every race.

No one is saying otherwise, but who is more likely to experience racism in Ireland? A black person or white person?

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

I asked you for a link, you didn't provide any and then you suggest I avoided your points which were so vague as to not really merit attention.

Again, for the second time, say one thing, do another.

You asked for a link whereby black people are grouped together. The name BLM in and of itself does just that. POC is another. Here's a precious link for you mentioning it.

As a black woman, I hate the term 'people of colour'

''Although the term feels politically correct, it’s inclusive and is better than the previously used ‘coloured’, I am still not here for it.''

-Tolani Shoneye

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, yes.

If it doesn't apply to all white people, then it's just personal privilege surely?

Personal privilege because of how they look in a given location.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is saying otherwise, but who is more likely to experience racism in Ireland? A black person or white person?

In a majority white country, the chances are the black person.

But as I asked earlier, if a white person said something racist to a black person, and a black person said something racist to a white person, who would be castigated more by society?

Is that what you call "black privilege"?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Personal privilege because of how they look in a given location.

Untrue.

Do you think it's a privilege to be called a brunette instead of being called a ginger or to be the subject of blonde jokes?

Does brunette privilege exist?

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is saying otherwise, but who is more likely to experience racism in Ireland? A black person or white person?

In a 95% white country, I'd say that black people probably would. Indians and Pakistani people seem to get plenty of it too. Casual and ignorant use of the derogatory term P*ki is one I've heard plenty of. Chinese and other Asians can get a tough time too. Roma gypsies seems to be the one that's allowed, which is bloody awful. Should probably have a catch all Racism is bad message like ''Kick it Out'' or ''Respect'' or something. Educate everyone, regardless of race.

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

Here's something I take a bit of umbrage with on a wider scale. The idea of the black community, in the context of the entire world, is a flawed concept. What has an urban London lad got in common with a Kenyan villager. What has a Caribbean retired gentleman got in common with some hipster nerd from Seattle? Where does a hot shot stockbroker on Wall Street fit in? A Dutch mechanic. Grouping people by their skin colour like that is lazy and ridiculously counterproductive.

Omackeral wrote: »

You asked for a link whereby black people are grouped together. The name BLM in and of itself does just that. POC is another. Here's a precious link for you mentioning it.

As a black woman, I hate the term 'people of colour'

''Although the term feels politically correct, it’s inclusive and is better than the previously used ‘coloured’, I am still not here for it.''

-Tolani Shoneye

I asked for a link where it is suggested that all black people share common experiences with all other black people.

I suggested a way in which they could all be said to have a collective experience

Omackeral wrote: »

Here's something I take a bit of umbrage with on a wider scale. The idea of the black community, in the context of the entire world, is a flawed concept. What has an urban London lad got in common with a Kenyan villager. What has a Caribbean retired gentleman got in common with some hipster nerd from Seattle? Where does a hot shot stockbroker on Wall Street fit in? A Dutch mechanic. Grouping people by their skin colour like that is lazy and ridiculously counterproductive.

Tell me how wrote: »

Leaving aside that I haven't seen anyone try to group them together as you are implying is done.

You don't for a second think that they might have a common experience as to how they have been treated or perceived in a particular negative way because of the colour of their skin?

Has anyone else suggested that they all be grouped together collectively in all aspects of their lives?

Can you quote a link where you saw this?

Your response still doesn't show this.

What it does do is say that POC is an inclusive term and an improvement on where things were at.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Untrue.

Do you think it's a privilege to be called a brunette instead of being called a ginger or to be the subject of blonde jokes?

Does brunette privilege exist?

Don't know what track you're gone off on, but I'm not following.

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

I asked for a link where it is suggested that all black people share common experiences with all other black people.

I suggested a way in which they could all be said to have a collective experience

Your response still doesn't show this.

What it does do is say that POC is an inclusive term and an improvement on where things were at.

She literally says, as Black woman, she hates the term. Hates it. Because it just relegates her to her colour.

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

In a 95% white country, I'd say that black people probably would. Indians and Pakistani people seem to get plenty of it too. Casual and ignorant use of the derogatory term P*ki is one I've heard plenty of. Chinese and other Asians can get a tough time too. Roma gypsies seems to be the one that's allowed, which is bloody awful. Should probably have a catch all Racism is bad message like ''Kick it Out'' or ''Respect'' or something. Educate everyone, regardless of race.

So is that not a privilege, that most white people experience that in a country where direct and casual racism is expressed towards most who are different, they do not have the expectation that it will be aimed at them?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't know what track you're gone off on, but I'm not following.

I'm not surprised.

We will leave it so.

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

So is that not a privilege, that most white people experience that in a country where direct and casual racism is expressed towards most who are different, they do not have the expectation that it will be aimed at them?

I never spoke to you about privilege. You're getting your discussions mixed up.

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

She literally says, as Black woman, she hates the term. Hates it. Because it just relegates her to her colour.

I asked for a link showing that black people were assumed to have common experiences with all other black people.

Which is what you initially suggested was the case.

What it seems you're saying is that even referring to them as sharing a common feature is a problem for at least one person.

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

I never spoke to you about privilege. You're getting your discussions mixed up.

Do I have to ask the question directly?

If in Ireland, there is casual or direct racism aimed at most ethnic groups who are demonstrably different, but not aimed at white people, is it not a privilege that they do not have the expectation that they will have to deal with it?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Do I have to ask the question directly?

If in Ireland, there is casual or direct racism aimed at most ethnic groups who are demonstrably different, but not aimed at white people, is it not a privilege that they do not have the expectation that they will have to deal with it?

If you suffer from racism while being white and it is not treated with the same contempt or taken as seriously, is that being the victim of non-white privilege?

Faugheen

I see white people are the victims again.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

I see white people are the victims again.

Of course you do.

That's an acceptable sentence for you to use.

Change the ethnicity and that would be no doubt classed as a racist sentiment.

Nobody claimed white people were victims.

People (well, me) have said that judging people solely on their skin colour and attributing victimhood or privilege on them according to that, is racism and shouldn't be tolerated or accepted.

But yeah of course, that's me playing the victim card so.

I'm sick of this ****. If you tell people they are victims enough, they'll eventually believe it. That's real racism. Making people believe they are lesser because of their skin colour. Yet here is good old whitey, sticking up for the downtrodden.

Disgusting.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

You asked for a link whereby black people are grouped together. The name BLM in and of itself does just that. POC is another. Here's a precious link for you mentioning it.

As a black woman, I hate the term 'people of colour'

''Although the term feels politically correct, it’s inclusive and is better than the previously used ‘coloured’, I am still not here for it.''

-Tolani Shoneye

Yeah I find it a strange one because the objection to "coloured" (cringe) is that it's as though they are a white person "coloured in". Like why aren't white people a colour? And poc is not far off "coloured".

I just say "black" - the way I'd say "white".

joseywhales

Why is there no "don't care" option? Even the survey is polarizing.

Quantum Erasure

Tell me how wrote: »

I asked for a link showing that black people were assumed to have common experiences with all other black people.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/critical-race-theory

Critical race theory (CRT),
intellectual movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour.

It might have had some relevance where it started in the USA, but the ideology has been exported and expanded on since

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd say the fact that racist incidents were apparently on the rise might have something to do with that.

Or that UEFA and FIFA have shown to be slow to react appropriately to instances of racism.

And taking the knee will change that how?

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

You were repeatedly being pedantic to try to point score and I asked that question to get to the nub of why your approach made no sense. It is incredibly weak to try to equate that to your dishonesty of you selectively editing of my post.

As you clearly have a problem answering questions, I'll just explain why I said they were booing black players, in case it wasn't obvious already. The leaders of the movement to protest in that format are black players, there is no evidence that the protest would be happening if it wasn't for the black players, and the players are protesting discrimination, injustice, and inequality - issues that impact non-white players and their community far greater.

This is all about black players and their community, even if white players are also joining them. The target of the fans boos is obvious to everyone but the most naive or disingenuous.

From what I remember it was Jordan Henderson, in combination with other premier league captains, who decided to start taking the knee at premier league games.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Brings this to mind.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZXjbG9XkAASDlh.jpg

Even more **** means.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

You seem very annoyed on my commenting on this while it's ok for you to do so.

what's that all about?

You didn't show where racism is implied by the way.

Wanting black people out of sight and out of my mind is obviously racist. As I said to you earlier in the thread, this type of posting is common place in these discussions, endless implied accusation of racism, xenophobia, transphobic, Islamophobia.

This yet another example, we had another yesterday or the day before were those that booed were explicitly called racist.

extra gravy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sick of this ****. If you tell people they are victims enough, they'll eventually believe it. That's real racism.

Do you actually believe this shïte? Your schtick is just boring now

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course you do.

That's an acceptable sentence for you to use.

Change the ethnicity and that would be no doubt classed as a racist sentiment.

Nobody claimed white people were victims.

People (well, me) have said that judging people solely on their skin colour and attributing victimhood or privilege on them according to that, is racism and shouldn't be tolerated or accepted.

But yeah of course, that's me playing the victim card so.

I'm sick of this ****. If you tell people they are victims enough, they'll eventually believe it. That's real racism. Making people believe they are lesser because of their skin colour. Yet here is good old whitey, sticking up for the downtrodden.

Disgusting.

My post was tongue in cheek.

How come a similar post from someone you agree with, which incorrectly labelled people who don’t take the knee as white supremacists doesn’t warrant a reply from you but my post does?

Oh right because mine doesn’t agree with your views.

‘Disgusting’. Balanced, my arse. You’re fooling nobody but yourself pretending to be.

Fandymo

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Yeah, and do you think it’s a good way to behave? And then, bear in mind, that in this instance we are discussing not just booing at a song, but booing at black players doing an anti racism gesture.

Booing is a peaceful form of protest.

is_that_so

Tell me how wrote: »

Brings this to mind.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZXjbG9XkAASDlh.jpg

Protests do come to an end, whether they have any effect or not as they lose any force they had, over time. That is really where taking the knee is at now.

ArthurDayne

Fandymo wrote: »

Booing is a peaceful form of protest.

Well, from your perspective it is. From the perspective of a black player on a pitch performing an anti-racism gesture to the sound of booing and jeering, he might be less inclined to consider it peaceful. But even at that, protesting “peacefully” doesn’t just make that form of protest absolutely beyond criticism or reproach. There can still be a nasty, ignorant and disrespectful facet or tone to peaceful protests that people have every right to call out — and which can’t be dismissed purely on the basis of “oh well we didn’t get physical”.

Fandymo

Foxtrol wrote: »

The group of black players, their teammates, their manager, the FA have repeatedly told you why they are doing it, you're simply making the choice not to listen to them.

It was bad enough not being able to control yourselves and be respectful in whatever way they chose to protest initially but they have now specifically distanced themselves from the organisation that triggers you so much. You couldn't just take that as a win but you won't be happy until the black players either shut up or protest in a way that you choose for them.

It is a sad and pathetic reaction but not surprising at all - certain people will always find an issue with black people protesting, no matter how they do it.

It’s not just black players protesting, no matter how often you try to frame it like that.