Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

MrMusician18

joseywhales wrote: »

Why is there no "don't care" option? Even the survey is polarizing.

Because that's a cop out. If you don't care, don't vote.

WrenBoy

ArthurDayne wrote: »

See the problem with this line of argument is that it can be used either way. Can’t I just as easily say, why don’t you just advocate that people show respect to players taking the knee and get on with it yourself?

You read it wrong, Im saying people boo the anthems of other countries sometimes and people just get on with it because its sports. As far as Im concerned people can have they're protests or promotions before the matches I don't mind but then turning around and complaining or trying to punish peoples reaction to that protest or promotion is just being a bit of a silly goose really.

Hector Savage

Faugheen wrote: »

Why are you making up absolute nonsense that absolutely nobody has said?

This thread is about a players right to be able to make a peaceful gesture about anti-racism in football and not being booed for it.

Anyone who is against the knee is painted as racist, anyone who chooses not to is also painted as racist.

Why do you think there was ZERO booing at a match where the players linked and pointed to the "Respect" badges ?

surely if the booers were all bigots, they'd boo that too ...

suicide_circus

Maybe one has to have been exposed to religiosity in ones youth in order for your spidey senses to be set off when you see it again in later life. This kind of public piousity in the form of genuflecting is the same human religious impulse we see at play throughout history.

Faugheen

Hector Savage wrote: »

Anyone who is against the knee is painted as racist, anyone who chooses not to is also painted as racist.

Why do you think there was ZERO booing at a match where the players linked and pointed to the "Respect" badges ?

surely if the booers were all bigots, they'd boo that too ...

That’s not what you said.

You implied that people who support the knee believe that those who don’t do it are white supremacists and racists. There was absolutely nothing to do with booing in your post.

Just because Spain and Sweden didn’t do it doesn’t mean they don’t support those who do.

Onion Bahji

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I’m not sure the players believe they will “end racism” but they can raise awareness of the subject and, as role models for young people, show that they don’t agree with it.

Some people don’t want their children being told that racism is a bad thing, or that it exists at all, and others just don’t like anyone making such a high profile gesture against racism so will boo, and scream, to get them to stop raising this “awareness”.

Most of these millionaire athletes have sponsorship deals with sportswear companies that produce clothes in countries with poor or non-existent child labour laws don't they.

Perhaps it had some significance in the country of its birth but for all intents and purposes taking the knee seems pretty lightweight and pointless over here.

jakiah

Tell me how wrote: »

Brings this to mind.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZXjbG9XkAASDlh.jpg

I see Americans protesting against police brutality. Laudible given the situation over there, not sure how thats relevant to a football game between Ireland and Hungary though.

Fandymo

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Well, from your perspective it is. From the perspective of a black player on a pitch performing an anti-racism gesture to the sound of booing and jeering, he might be less inclined to consider it peaceful. But even at that, protesting “peacefully” doesn’t just make that form of protest absolutely beyond criticism or reproach. There can still be a nasty, ignorant and disrespectful facet or tone to peaceful protests that people have every right to call out — and which can’t be dismissed purely on the basis of “oh well we didn’t get physical”.

Hahaha, so BLM causing 2bn worth of damage is “mostly peaceful”, but booing is terrible. Laughable.

ArthurDayne

Fandymo wrote: »

Hahaha, so BLM causing 2bn worth of damage is “mostly peaceful”, but booing is terrible. Laughable.

A comment which should prove to all those who say “people just call anyone who disagrees with them racist now” that the wide and unfair generalisations flow both ways just as freely.

Honestly, why are you telling me this and what relevance does it have to my point?

Faugheen

Fandymo wrote: »

Hahaha, so BLM causing 2bn worth of damage is “mostly peaceful”, but booing is terrible. Laughable.

So while you cry about people being tarred with the same brush, you proceed to tar an entire movement with the same brush.

‘Laughable’.

Fandymo

ArthurDayne wrote: »

A comment which should prove to all those who say “people just call anyone who disagrees with them racist now” that the wide and unfair generalisations flow both ways just as freely.

Honestly, why are you telling me this and what relevance does it have to my point?

No one cares about hurt feelings. Booing is 100% peaceful. That is it. If the players feel “hurt” by booing, maybe they can ask the manager not to play them.

Fandymo

Faugheen wrote: »

So while you cry about people being tarred with the same brush, you proceed to tar an entire movement with the same brush.

‘Laughable’.

I was laughing at the cognitive dissonance.

ArthurDayne

Fandymo wrote: »

I was laughing at the cognitive dissonance.

Could you explain where exactly there was cognitive dissonance and why you think that?

MisterAnarchy

Good to see some politicians express honest opinions about this.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1404407912890519552

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-not-support-england-players-taking-the-knee-fans-have-right-boo-1050589

Ms Patel has previously described Black Lives Matter protests as “dreadful”, and said she would not take the knee herself in solidarity with activists.

Speaking to GB News today, she added that anti-racism demonstrations that swept the UK last year have had a “devastating impact” on policing.

“I just don’t subscribe to this view that we should be rewriting our history — pulling down statues. The famous Colston statue and what’s happened there. Toppling statues is not the answer, it’s about learning from our past,” she said.

“I maintain my point that we learn from our past and we don’t rewrite it.”

BattleCorp

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Well, from your perspective it is. From the perspective of a black player on a pitch performing an anti-racism gesture to the sound of booing and jeering, he might be less inclined to consider it peaceful. But even at that, protesting “peacefully” doesn’t just make that form of protest absolutely beyond criticism or reproach. There can still be a nasty, ignorant and disrespectful facet or tone to peaceful protests that people have every right to call out — and which can’t be dismissed purely on the basis of “oh well we didn’t get physical”.

That's the thing about perspective. We all have a different one.

Yes, some people might be booing the 'taking the knee' because of racism. But others might want to watch a game of football without politics being brought into it.

Personally I think footballers are being forced to 'take a knee' because as soon as you don't 'take a knee', you'll be criticised and labelled a racist, and that costs teams, businesses and sponsors money. Forcing people to take a knee is wrong, no matter how noble the cause is.

ArthurDayne

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Good to see some politicians express honest opinions about this.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1404407912890519552

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-not-support-england-players-taking-the-knee-fans-have-right-boo-1050589

Yes, so deeply honest that when the reporter asked her if she herself would boo players taking the knee, she avoided the question.

ArthurDayne

BattleCorp wrote: »

That's the thing about perspective. We all have a different one.

Yes, some people might be booing the 'taking the knee' because of racism. But others might want to watch a game of football without politics being brought into it.

Personally I think footballers are being forced to 'take a knee' because as soon as you don't 'take a knee', you'll be criticised and labelled a racist, and that costs teams, businesses and sponsors money. Forcing people to take a knee is wrong, no matter how noble the cause is.

But there’s the rub, isn’t it? If you (and I don’t mean you personally as I’m not sure whether you would boo or not) are actually booing and jeering players taking the knee then you’re leaving yourself open to being bunged among the racist crowd — whether it’s fair or unfair, you’re still foolishly helping to increase the reasonableness of the presumption that (at the very least) you’re ignorant. I mean, even watch that video of Priti Patel posted above and after discussing her views on her disagreement with the gesture she then deflects from answering whether she would boo herself. She knows well that there is a distinct difference between disagreeing with the gesture and actively booing players for whom it means something profound — and she’s not for putting herself in that category.

I agree with aspects of what you are saying — I myself am fairly indifferent towards the Knee. I think it’s tainted by a degree of tokenism and selectivism ... and I’m unsure of how effective it is. Yeah, people might get criticised for not doing it and I’d wager that some players do feel forced to do it. But I don’t agree that it’s necessarily the Iron Diktat that some on here seem determined to believe that it is — when even former and current black players have expressed misgivings about it, while we can see in the current Euros that there wasn’t some huge explosion of anger when teams like Sweden don’t bother.

mohawk

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Good to see some politicians express honest opinions about this.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1404407912890519552

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-not-support-england-players-taking-the-knee-fans-have-right-boo-1050589

I think ‘gesture politics’ sums it up. The taking the knee came over to Europe from America especially after the killing of George Floyd at hands of the police. The problems facing a black European aren’t always the same problems facing a black American. I think many would support solving our own problems in Ireland/Europe and not importing the problems others have abroad.
Personally I wouldn’t boo those taking the knee, however I think most players are doing it for show. When Colin Kaepernick did it I respected him because he was doing it for something he truly believed in. I honestly don’t believe that all the soccer players that are doing it now believe in what they are doing it for.

I wonder if it’s here to stay because aside from taking the knee before a match what other actions are being taken to minimise racism in society?

BattleCorp

ArthurDayne wrote: »

But there’s the rub, isn’t it? If you (and I don’t mean you personally as I’m not sure whether you would boo or not) are actually booing and jeering players taking the knee then you’re leaving yourself open to being bunged among the racist crowd — whether it’s fair or unfair, you’re still foolishly helping to increase the reasonableness of the presumption that (at the very least) you’re ignorant.

I've said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't boo. In principle I'm in favour of black people getting fair play from all US cops but I don't agree with soccer players in Europe taking the knee as I think it's gesture politics and, even worse, forced politics.

With regard to leaving yourself open to being bunged among the racist crowd, well if I am bunged among the racist crowd, that's their ignorance and their mistake, not mine. I don't believe we all have to be part of 'the Borg' to use a Star Trek analogy.

I agree with aspects of what you are saying — I myself am fairly indifferent towards the Knee. I think it’s tainted by a degree of tokenism and selectivism ... and I’m unsure of how effective it is. Yeah, people might get criticised for not doing it and I’d wager that some players do feel forced to do it. But I don’t agree that it’s necessarily the Iron Diktat that some on here seem determined to believe that it is — when even former and current black players have expressed misgivings about it, while we can see in the current Euros that there wasn’t some huge explosion of anger when teams like Sweden don’t bother.

I certainly think many footballers who don't want to take the knee are afraid to stick their head above the parapet for fear of it being shot off.

Look at the poll attached to this thread. Most Boards.ie users who voted are against taking the knee. Are we a bunch of wierdos who go against the grain on everything or are we representative of society? If we are even close to representing society, there must be a lot of footballers who are being forced, for whatever reason, into taking the knee.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

That's the thing about perspective. We all have a different one.

Yes, some people might be booing the 'taking the knee' because of racism. But others might want to watch a game of football without politics being brought into it.

Personally I think footballers are being forced to 'take a knee' because as soon as you don't 'take a knee', you'll be criticised and labelled a racist, and that costs teams, businesses and sponsors money. Forcing people to take a knee is wrong, no matter how noble the cause is.

I'm not of the opinion that players are being forced, but I do believe that it would be a bad look for a player not to do it as per the FA statement.

This will effect their "brand" and earning ability so they may feel obligated to go along with it.

But you know, people will attack you here for saying they are being forced, so coerced or backed into a corner may be the right word or phrase.

Have to be balanced you know

Tell me how

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've said earlier in this thread that I wouldn't boo. In principle I'm in favour of black people getting fair play from all US cops but I don't agree with soccer players in Europe taking the knee as I think it's gesture politics and, even worse, forced politics.

With regard to leaving yourself open to being bunged among the racist crowd, well if I am bunged among the racist crowd, that's their ignorance and their mistake, not mine. I don't believe we all have to be part of 'the Borg' to use a Star Trek analogy.




I certainly think many footballers who don't want to take the knee are afraid to stick their head above the parapet for fear of it being shot off.

Look at the poll attached to this thread. Most Boards.ie users who voted are against taking the knee. Are we a bunch of wierdos who go against the grain on everything or are we representative of society? If we are even close to representing society, there must be a lot of footballers who are being forced, for whatever reason, into taking the knee.

If Boards polls were accurate, Peter Casey would be sitting in aras an uachtarain right now.

The PFA sent a survey to footballers last December and 80% voted to continue taking the knee, think that is more concrete evidence than basing perceived motivations on an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum.

nullzero

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Good to see some politicians express honest opinions about this.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1404407912890519552

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-not-support-england-players-taking-the-knee-fans-have-right-boo-1050589

She must drive the luvvies insane being part of an ethnic minority and also being as right wing as hell.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not of the opinion that players are being forced, but I do believe that it would be a bad look for a player not to do it as per the FA statement.

This will effect their "brand" and earning ability so they may feel obligated to go along with it.

But you know, people will attack you here for saying they are being forced, so coerced or backed into a corner may be the right word or phrase.

Have to be balanced you know

You're repeatedly trying to paint your side of the discussion as being attacked.
Are those of us who think booing is a poor response to a gesture to help encourage meaningful action to combat racism not allowed to voice our opinion?

Report posts if you feel they are targeting you specifically or else stop trying to appear like a victim in the discussion. It's tiresome.

BattleCorp

Tell me how wrote: »

If Boards polls were accurate, Peter Casey would be sitting in aras an uachtarain right now.

The PFA sent a survey to footballers last December and 80% voted to continue taking the knee, think that is more concrete evidence than basing perceived motivations on an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum.

Fair enough. I take your point regarding an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum.

But if 20% of footballers voted against it, at least some of them are being forced/obligated into doing it.

mohawk

mohawk wrote: »

I wonder if it’s here to stay because aside from taking the knee before a match what other actions are being taken to minimise racism in society?

If anything, racism is being maximised not minimised. Anything that doesn't goes against the "progressive" narrative is classed as racist.

Look at just a couple of the BLM martyrs.

George Floyd was a career criminal and a drug addled thug who contributed to the situation which led to his death? Nah man, that's victim blaming and being a racist. Let's do a protest.

Nathan Blake being shot in the back multiple times was because he was reaching for a weapon despite being ordered to comply with police directions? Nah man, he was shot because he was black. Let's do a protest.

Black police officer David dorn who was shot by looters during a BLM "peaceful protest"? ....... comparative crickets

Tell me how

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Good to see some politicians express honest opinions about this.

https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1404407912890519552

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/priti-patel-not-support-england-players-taking-the-knee-fans-have-right-boo-1050589

This is brilliant.

The same Home secretary who is behind laws enabling police to stop protests if they deem them to be noisy or annoying thinks booing is an acceptable form of protest.
Is booing not the definition of noisy and annoying? Depends what you are booing about I suppose.

(Worth mentioning she was forced to resign for lying to her PM about undisclosed meetings she was having with Israeli representatives. But yeah, let's laud her for being honest.

And the icing on the hypocrisy cake that is Priti, her anti-immigration laws would have prevented her own parents from entering and staying in the UK.)

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

If Boards polls were accurate, Peter Casey would be sitting in aras an uachtarain right now.

The PFA sent a survey to footballers last December and 80% voted to continue taking the knee, think that is more concrete evidence than basing perceived motivations on an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum.

So 20% didn't? I suppose we shouldn't listen to minorities in this instance so.

(Tongue in cheek)

Tell me how

BattleCorp wrote: »

Fair enough. I take your point regarding an anonymous poll on an anonymous forum.

But if 20% of footballers voted against it, at least some of them are being forced/obligated into doing it.

If any group or union voted on a course of action, would it automatically be assummed that those who had voted against whatever motion was carried were therefore being forced/obligated in to participating in its outcome?

I don't think so. And as Zaha has shown, he stopped kneeling and I don't think was targeted or demeaned in any way for doing so.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

You're repeatedly trying to paint your side of the discussion as being attacked.
Are those of us who think booing is a poor response to a gesture to help encourage meaningful action to combat racism not allowed to voice our opinion?

Report posts if you feel they are targeting you specifically or else stop trying to appear like a victim in the discussion. It's tiresome.

I have reported posts that have gone above what is acceptable. Most have been actioned.

Thanks for your input. But please, less victim blaming. There's an ignore function as well as a report button. No need to read my tiresome posts.

BattleCorp

Tell me how wrote: »

If any group or union voted on a course of action, would it automatically be assummed that those who had voted against whatever motion was carried were therefore being forced/obligated in to participating in its outcome?

In many instances I think so, yes.

Not in every instance for sure, but in lots. For example, if I voted in favour of abortion and the rest of the country voted against it, I'd be forced to go elsewhere for an abortion.

If my union voted on unfavourable changes in my working terms and conditions, I would have little choice but to accept them. Yes, I could leave my job, but how realistic is that.

I don't think so. And as Zaha has shown, he stopped kneeling and I don't think was targeted or demeaned in any way for doing so.

Lets be honest, Zaha can object and stop kneeling because he is black. Much more difficult for a white person to do that and not have the cross hairs on him.