Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

ArthurDayne

Hector Savage wrote: »

Fans should just quietly turn their backs during the kneeling ...

Probably slightly better than booing but still looks pretty dumb — I mean whatever your views on Brexit, the Brexiteers just made themselves look stupid here (as did the the LibDems with the cringe Bollocks to Brexit T-shirts in fairness): https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/02/brexit-party-meps-turn-their-backs-european-anthem-ode-to-joy

Look at the state of that like — it just looks daft and petty

If it was me, get a couple of banners that say “Take Real Action Against Racism - Not the Knee”. Hell, even just hold up placards with it that show the existing anti-racism emblems used by UEFA and FIFA which apparently these fans had no issues with. No need for boos and jeers while players do the gesture, some of whom find deep and sincere meaning in it. That way, you’re showing the world in fairly simple terms what you actually have a problem with and that we are all on the same side against racism without the need for what you might perceive to be a tokenistic gesture. There will still be those who criticise it, don’t get me wrong, but it still would resonate a bit more with people in the middle ground.

Or of course just boo like morons and then cry when the media equates booing at black players doing an anti-racism gesture with racism.

Ahwell

Hector Savage wrote: »

Fans should just quietly turn their backs during the kneeling ...

What...including those applauding it, like the vast majority of fans who attended the last match?

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

There is EVERY point in "crying" about being called racist if you are not being racist.

**** that noise.

What kind of logic is that?

Well, I guess it’s the basic logic of understanding how humans think I guess. If I boo and jeer at someone laying a Poppy wreath, I am smart enough (and it doesn’t take much smarts on this one) to know that it’s likely they will take it as a disrespect of what the gesture is about — and that other people will take it that way. Therefore all I achieve is division.

Now, as someone from the North whose father was brutalised by British soldiers walking home from the pub and subjected to interrogation in Castlereagh for no good reason — and who personally knows people who still have British bullets lodged in their flesh — my reasons for having misgivings about what the Poppy promotes are more nuanced than simply disrespecting the memory of British soldiers who died serving their country, whether whatever cause they died for was a just or unjust one.

But if I just boo people, all that nuance is lost and I know well what to expect. In a similar vein, there is no point in pretending to be stupid over how booing an anti-racism gesture will be interpreted. There are better ways to make a point.

Ahwell

Scotland is going to take the knee tonight.

alan partridge aha

Hector Savage wrote: »

Fans should just quietly turn their backs during the kneeling ...

Yes far better than booing I agree.

nolivesmatter

Hector Savage wrote: »

Fans should just quietly turn their backs during the kneeling ...

I'm not sure about that. That seems like it would give off a sense of indifference to the situation entirely when it's the taking the knee they only have issue with. Booing might not be achieving the intended message but I don't think turning your back would either.

jakiah

Ahwell wrote: »

Scotland is going to take the knee tonight.

I dont get why they are doing it selectively, was the issue not important for their last game?

Ahwell

jakiah wrote: »

I dont get why they are doing it selectively, was the issue not important for their last game?

Clarke appears concerned about his players potentially becoming unwitting poster boys for those opposing anti-discrimination initiatives. “In light of divisive and inaccurate comments, we’ve reflected as a group,” he said. “We remain committed to our principles of taking a stand at Hampden Park but we’ve agreed we’ll show solidarity with our counterparts in England. At Wembley, we’ll stand against racism and kneel against ignorance.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/11/scotland-to-take-knee-as-one-off-against-england-in-show-of-solidarity

jakiah

So this is a new reason for kneeling? Solidarity with England who are kneeling against racism? Seems a bit stupid tbh.

Ahwell

jakiah wrote: »

So this is a new reason for kneeling? Solidarity with England who are kneeling against racism?

Not really, as he said...

“Some individuals and groups have sought to politicise or misrepresent Scotland’s position on taking a stand against racism and discriminatory behaviour in our Uefa Euro 2020 matches,”

I think we saw elements of this on this thread when Scotland didn't take the knee in their first match.

ArthurDayne

jakiah wrote: »

I dont get why they are doing it selectively, was the issue not important for their last game?

I guess it’s hard to overlook here that one minute people seem to have an issue with it because apparently it’s forced by the woke liberal agenda — and the next minute the problem is that teams do it selectively.

Billgirlylegs

Ahwell wrote: »

Not really, as he said...



I think we saw elements of this on this thread when Scotland didn't take the knee in their first match.

The whole "knee" thing is a pointless silly gesture.
Never before has the old political saying hold true "when you are explaining, you are losing". How much longer are people going to explain it.

The other point rendering it pointless is that "racists" are not going to be swayed by it. It is just a topic to be argued about by polite people.

Bobblehats

jakiah wrote: »

So this is a new reason for kneeling? Solidarity with England who are kneeling against racism? Seems a bit stupid tbh.

England are an FA unto themselves. No European, bar Brussels HQ is kneeling you take ro your knees you’re effectively showing how subservient to these people you are.

ArthurDayne

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I guess it’s hard to overlook here that one minute people seem to have an issue with it because apparently it’s forced by the woke liberal agenda — and the next minute the problem is that teams do it selectively.

Ugh....

Again, the reason people have a problem with the gesture is because of BLM and the association with the knee. It's also hypocritical that the knee only matters selectively, thus making it not a constant protest.

Point at the respect badge, take a moment in the tunnel to shake each others hands, do the ****ing macarena if you want. Just don't bend the knee in the way you did for BLM a couple of weeks ago.

Ahwell

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

The whole "knee" thing is a pointless silly gesture.
Never before has the old political saying hold true "when you are explaining, you are losing". How much longer are people going to explain it.

But what has happened after the manager and players explained? - a very marked reduction in booing and an increase in those applauding.

Bobblehats

It’s an invasion, make no mistake!



bow before this political posturing in the football arena and you’re sending out all the wrong signals. Conceding all kinds of defeat

ArthurDayne

Deleted User wrote: »

Ugh....

Again, the reason people have a problem with the gesture is because of BLM and the association with the knee. It's also hypocritical that the knee only matters selectively, thus making it not a constant protest.

Point at the respect badge, take a moment in the tunnel to shake each others hands, do the ****ing macarena if you want. Just don't bend the knee in the way you did for BLM a couple of weeks ago.

To be fair, the idea that players felt forced to do it to prove their virtue has been one of the criticisms — and lots of teams haven’t been doing it and nobody really seems to care. And that’s it really — why do you care so much either way? Right so BLM did it so somehow therefore the entire gesture is now trademarked by BLM and somehow represents every single person and statement ever associated with BLM and somehow it can’t ever be just an anti-racism gesture but somehow has to be inextricably linked with the bad things that happened during BLM protests.

For some people it’s meaningful, for others it isn’t. Personally I don’t see why it gets people so worked up.

Fandymo

ArthurDayne wrote: »

This is just a really lazy way of looking at it, in my opinion anyway. Do you hold the same views when the so-called Left tries to drown out and disrespect the views of wealthy conservative or so-called Right leaning people?

It’s basically more or less like booing someone and drowning them out when they are debating. If a bunch of so-called Left leaning students were doing something like that while a well-known so-called Right leaning contributor was speaking — you’d have people on here bemoaning the woke cancel culture and how the Left just disrespects anyone who has a different view. The wealth of the person wouldn’t matter a damn then.

One is booing a team for making a statement before they do their job/hobby. The other is stopping someone from doing their job/hobby. If the fans were stopping the kneelers from playing football you might have had a point. False equivalence.

Fandymo

Ahwell wrote: »

What...including those applauding it, like the vast majority of fans who attended the last match?

How many clapped and how many booed before the Croatia game? You must have the figures if you’re able to say the “vast majority” applauded.

Bobblehats

Fandymo wrote: »

How many clapped and how many booed before the Croatia game? You must have the figures if you’re able to say the “vast majority” applauded.

Indifference is key

Ahwell

Fandymo wrote: »

How many clapped and how many booed before the Croatia game? You must have the figures if you’re able to say the “vast majority” applauded.

No, but I have ears and so do the people who were reporting from the match.

jackboy

Ahwell wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/11/scotland-to-take-knee-as-one-off-against-england-in-show-of-solidarity

So, they will kneel so racists don’t see them as fellow racists to admire.

Shows a lack of integrity and makes them come across a bit pathetic. At least they are being honest though.

Bobblehats

jackboy wrote: »

Shows a lack of integrity and makes them come across a bit pathetic. At least they are being honest though.

Seems awful subservient. Not in their dna, could it be an attempt to eliminate the potential rage factor of a proportion of the opposition?

1800_Ladladlad

extra pre-recorded crowd cheers there for the England game. they took the knee for 2 seconds. it's comical.

sligeach

I think they deliberately kept the music playing over the PA system at Wembley while the players took the knee, to try and drown out the boos. They could still be heard. I'm not sure if they even turned up the volume of the music at that point.

martingriff

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

extra pre-recorded crowd cheers there for the England game. they took the knee for 2 seconds. it's comical.

Or there was just a lot of cheers. Why would that pain you so much

Richard Hillman

sligeach wrote: »

I think they deliberately kept the music playing over the PA system at Wembley while the players took the knee, to try and drown out the boos. They could still be heard. I'm not sure if they even turned up the volume of the music at that point.

Yeah it looked like it was timed exactly to the point where the music got loud.

https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1405964851718103042?s=19

The ITV Comms apparently were talking loudly through it too.

martingriff

Maybbe the cheers were not for the knee but to drown out the boos. To show not all fans are so cras

Richard Hillman

Also the ref blew, took a knee but the players held off for a couple more seconds because they knew the cue for the specific part of the song and didn't kneel until the music got loud.

martingriff

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Yeah it looked like it was timed exactly to the point where the music got loud.

https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1405964851718103042?s=19

The ITV Comms apparently were talking loudly through it too.

Music did not get louder. There were boos and then others cheered to drown them out.