Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

kowloonkev

John Doe1 wrote: »

Anti-Racism rally, more like Middle Class white saviour clap-on-the-back fest.

I really do hope this woke fad is a flash in the pan because it has the potential to divide and eventually disintegrate western society.

10 years ago, the left wing seemed to stand for common sense but now the lunatics are running the asylum

It's quite true. Generally speaking football fans are not from wealthy backgrounds and they are the sort of people who do get upset over unjust things in the sport and outside of it.

Football fans were unanimously irate about the European Super League. We saw then that they have a good sense of fairness. A large majority would support Palestine (for example, don't want to start a debate about that) and generally any issues where they think vulnerable people are being screwed over.

Yet it is quite obvious that the majority of fans do not support taking the knee. A minority of that majority boo the gesture.

The media are at a loss because in the current environment they have no choice but to condemn those booing, and God forbid they could have a real discussion about why the elites in sport/media/politics are at odds with the majority of fans on this issue.

I would like to hear more from regular, working/middle class black people because I'm sick of seeing elite black sportspeople whinging about things on their behalf and complaining that one racist comment in a million anonymous comments represents a societal problem that requires perpetual attention.

Did these selfish footballers ever stop to think about stuff like human trafficking/sexual slavery or the modern day slavery going on in Qatar to build the temples in which they will all be playing next year? - Yes actually I think a couple of international teams wore t-shirts to highlight that issue and the issue was dropped just as quickly.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Conveniently ignoring the quote from the poster who had a dig at the rally. Some people just don't agree with any anti-racism gestures. Why is that, in your opinion?

Three main reasons.

First that those who advocate anti-racism seem to embrace reverse racism themselves. Second, because many people feel we already have adequate measures in place to minimize racism in society, and that change would come naturally (as part of ongoing state processes). And third, there's a feeling by many that these initiatives don't seek equality between minority groups, and white people, but rather, the elevation of such groups, by providing supports, protections, etc based solely on race as opposed to individual circumstances.

Anti-racism gestures are misleading, due to the associations that arise from the groups using them, and it's often difficult to separate the associations from a political message. I don't like Black power/militancy type of civil action, but gestures used at anti-racism rallies are often connected with them. (I don't like Black power movements for the same reason I don't like White power movements). Just as it's often difficult to separate Antifa from Black movements, or anti-racism rallies. I'd be against these gestures, because there are associations with such groups.

EmmetSpiceland

Jesus, ‘Game of Thrones’ really has a lot to answer for. Angry nerds shrieking in terror at kneeling in any capacity.

Hope none of you end up at a church “service” anytime soon. You’ll be looking a bit odd standing for the whole show.

BattleCorp

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, ‘Game of Thrones’ really has a lot to answer for. Angry nerds shrieking in terror at kneeling in any capacity.

Hope none of you end up at a church “service” anytime soon. You’ll be looking a bit odd standing for the whole show.

Where's the law that says people have to kneel because others are doing it?

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, ‘Game of Thrones’ really has a lot to answer for. Angry nerds shrieking in terror at kneeling in any capacity.

Hope none of you end up at a church “service” anytime soon. You’ll be looking a bit odd standing for the whole show.

You can just sit. Nothing happens.

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, ‘Game of Thrones’ really has a lot to answer for. Angry nerds shrieking in terror at kneeling in any capacity.

Ahh well, it's nice of you to label those who disagree with you as " angry nerds".

anyway, It was one person who posted in that manner, but that's supposed to represent all of us? Exaggerate much, Emmet? (even if there were ten posters here who posted similar, it would still be an exaggeration, and overly dismissive)

sligeach

Before the kick-off in the Italy v Wales game, all the Welsh players took the knee. Only 3 Italian players did so, maybe out of respect to their opponents. But it was interesting to see they had the choice. All the Welsh and English players have to do it, it's expected of them. Can they opt out? Theyd be scapegoated by the media and some of the public if they showed freedom of expression. Even the Scottish the other day against England probably felt they had to do it, even though they said they wouldn't be doing it in the tournament.

Suspect certain posters would object to him wearing the armband too. :pac:

https://theathletic.com/news/manuel-neuer-rainbow-armband-uefa/47Dxc6G9c9dV

BattleCorp

Deleted User wrote: »

Suspect certain posters would object to him wearing the armband too. :pac:

https://theathletic.com/news/manuel-neuer-rainbow-armband-uefa/47Dxc6G9c9dV

Seems to be his choice to wear it so I'm fine.

Being forced/obligated/pressured to kneel is somewhat different.

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be having digs against literally every gesture including this rally. People are free to check your history of discussing the issue of racism, it's downplaying its existence or getting annoyed at those who highlight it.

Highlight it? Racism is one of the central themes of our time. Its ubiquitous. Its pretty much constantly highlighted across media, entertainment, the arts, platforms, institutions, education, government and sport like never before. I actually think it's having a contradictory impact.

extra gravy

BattleCorp wrote: »

Being forced/obligated/pressured to kneel is somewhat different.

Link to the quotes from players stating that they are being pressured to do it?

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Suspect certain posters would object to him wearing the armband too. :pac:

https://theathletic.com/news/manuel-neuer-rainbow-armband-uefa/47Dxc6G9c9dV

You'd love to think so at least.

In your mind anyone who questions the logic of taking the knee is someone who can be crammed into the "hates everyone" pigeon hole.

What it must be like to have such a simplistic view of the world, almost like the way a child sees things.

Danzy

nullzero wrote: »

You'd love to think so at least.

In your mind anyone who questions the logic of taking the knee is someone who can be crammed into the "hates everyone" pigeon hole.

What it must be like to have such a simplistic view of the world, almost like the way a child sees things.

The certainty of the religious fanatic.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Highlight it? Racism is one of the central themes of our time. Its ubiquitous. Its pretty much constantly highlighted across media, entertainment, the arts, platforms, institutions, education, government and sport like never before.

I'd say that Feminism, and women's rights is King (or Queen), but yes, racism comes a very close second these days. You're right though, the messages about racism are everywhere, and it's going to get worse.

I actually think it's having a contradictory impact.

Probably because people are getting tired of being lectured to about things they already know, and guilt tripped on things they aren't involved in. Most people might have some racist/biases, but they don't express them, but this holier than thou attitude that comes from the anti-racism advocates just screams double standards and hypocrisy. Too much like the Catholic Church with all it's moralising.

Danzy

If this doesn't get a reaction, they'll escalate.

Hard to know if they really care about anything.

The screaming against sin and heresy seems to be the only consistent.

BattleCorp

extra gravy wrote: »

Link to the quotes from players stating that they are being pressured to do it?

Well if Wilfred Zaha thinks it is degrading, then I think it's fair to assume other footballers think so too. https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/56126928

I'm busy in work but I'm sure I'll find some players who aren't happy with having to take the knee.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it's ok for a black player like Zaha to say he doesn't want to take the knee, but it's much more difficult for a white player to say the same thing.

newhouse87

BattleCorp wrote: »

Well if Wilfred Zaha thinks it is degrading, then I think it's fair to assume other footballers think so too. https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/56126928

I'm busy in work but I'm sure I'll find some players who aren't happy with having to take the knee.

Like I said earlier in the thread, it's ok for a black player like Zaha to say he doesn't want to take the knee, but it's much more difficult for a white player to say the same thing.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news-football-lyle-taylor-hits-out-at-black-lives-matter-and-taking-knee-20210110

suicide_circus

Its worth pointing out that the only players who are speaking against it are themselves black. It would certainly be a very bold move for a white player to take that stance when all their big corporate sponsors are vocally pro BLM.

And on that point, when your social values keep aligning with those of Procter & Gamble, Nestle and Bank of America, it's time for reflection.

WrenBoy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that the only players who are speaking against it are themselves black. It would certainly be a very bold move for a white player to take that stance when all their big corporate sponsors are vocally pro BLM.

And on that point, when your social values keep aligning with those of Procter & Gamble, Nestle and Bank of America, it's time for reflection.

The "Revolution" is supported by big business and tech giants.

extra gravy

suicide_circus wrote: »

And on that point, when your social values keep aligning with those of Procter & Gamble, Nestle and Bank of America, it's time for reflection.

Big business will align themselves with the social values of the majority of their customers, it's not rocket science. It's time for reflection when you're bothered by anti-racism and anti-LGBT support and initiatives.

Gradius

extra gravy wrote: »

Big business will align themselves with the social values of the majority of their customers, it's not rocket science. It's time for reflection when you're bothered by anti-racism and anti-LGBT support and initiatives.

No, big business aligns itself with money. Nothing more.

The loudest voices are the minority, they scream and shout and throw tantrums, go on witch hunts ("offence archaeology"!), organise boycotts, try to "cancel" people and brands, never shut up. Genuinely damaging people that can interrupt money flow.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil, and that's all there is to it.

suicide_circus

extra gravy wrote: »

Big business will align themselves with the social values of the majority of their customers, it's not rocket science. It's time for reflection when you're bothered by anti-racism and anti-LGBT support and initiatives.

I don't believe these anti x anti y performances are sincere. I dont buy into the binary "with us/against us" narrative.

Ahwell

suicide_circus wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that the only players who are speaking against it are themselves black. It would certainly be a very bold move for a white player to take that stance when all their big corporate sponsors are vocally pro BLM.

July 2020, The Premier League stated its Black Lives Matter campaign does not endorse any organisation or movement with a political agenda.

Sep 2020 All references to BLM stopped in the Premier League at the start of the 2020-21 season and was replaced with "No Room For Racism"

December 2020, The PFA surveyed the players and found that 80 per cent of players supported continuing taking the despite any adverse responses that may be received. A healthy majority to say the least.

June 2021 Gareth Southgate says England squad are 'totally united' in continuing to take a knee at Euro 2020. The FA and Gareth Southgate again stressed that the players taking the knee is not aligned to a political organisation.

At no time has anyone associated with "No Room For Racism" advocated marxism, overturning captolism or defunding the police.

Meanwhile, there was very little booing when the players took the knee during the last match.

suicide_circus

Good post.

conorhal

extra gravy wrote: »

Big business will align themselves with the social values of the majority of their customers, it's not rocket science. It's time for reflection when you're bothered by anti-racism and anti-LGBT support and initiatives.

I am utterly uninterested in Mr Sheen's opinion on trans athletes, I just want to know if he still makes 'umteen things clean!'
I care not a wit about the Coca-Cola corporations opinion on wether or not black lives matter, though I might have a passing interest in what they'd have to say about childhood obesity rates.
Why exactly is it the pervue of glaxo-smith-kline to pontificate to me on any matter?
This is all lazy virtue signalling to avoid the spotlight falling on their own behaviour.
Amazon is very eager to tell you about their support for BLM but not so eager to make a statement as to why you're twice as likely to be fired if your a black employee as opposed to a white employee.
The could all do with shutting up frankly.

Fandymo

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, ‘Game of Thrones’ really has a lot to answer for. Angry nerds shrieking in terror at kneeling in any capacity.

Hope none of you end up at a church “service” anytime soon. You’ll be looking a bit odd standing for the whole show.

Kneeling in church is in reverence to a higher power!!! What higher power is the knee in reverence to on the pitch?

Baggly

If you want to discuss UEFA not changing the colour of the Allianz Arena, go to the already existing thread on it. Doesnt really relate to the topic of this thread.

Danzy

Fandymo wrote: »

Kneeling in church is in reverence to a higher power!!! What higher power is the knee in reverence to on the pitch?

The almighty £.

Deep pockets is the unifying commonality of those doing it and those applauding it.

Sand

Fandymo wrote: »

Kneeling in church is in reverence to a higher power!!! What higher power is the knee in reverence to on the pitch?

George Floyd?

McGinniesta

It was a bad idea to start with.

Whatever it intended to achieve has now been completely overshadowed.