Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

BluePlanet

Fandymo wrote: »

Kneeling in church is in reverence to a higher power!!! What higher power is the knee in reverence to on the pitch?

It's a practice popularized by Martin Luther King Jr.

Fandymo

BluePlanet wrote: »

It's a practice popularized by Martin Luther King Jr.

He’s kneeling to say a prayer in that picture, like in church, to a higher power. As I said in my post you quoted with this picture. Kneeling to pray has been around a lot longer than MLK

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

He’s kneeling to say a prayer in that picture, like in church, to a higher power. As I said in my post you quoted with this picture. Kneeling to pray has been around a lot longer than MLK

And it was specifically as part of a protest, it was outside of the local courthouse.... So ya, not simply a prayer. Also has a long history.



https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/

Fandymo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And it was specifically as part of a protest, it was outside of the local courthouse.... So ya, not simply a prayer. Also has a long history.



https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/

He’s literally a baptist minister, taking a knee to say a prayer, kneeling in reverence to a higher power (God). Twist it whatever way you want in your mind.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

He’s literally a baptist minister, taking a knee to say a prayer, kneeling in reverence to a higher power (God). Twist it whatever way you want in your mind.

And it was in an incredibly symbolic location as part of a march, do you really believe it wasn't part of an act of protest? It most definitely was. His daughter thought it was relevant enough to share in this context too.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

He’s literally a baptist minister, taking a knee to say a prayer, kneeling in reverence to a higher power (God). Twist it whatever way you want in your mind.

You really believe that a believer in God, asking for HIS support, is not a political gesture designed to appeal to other Christians?

MLK was a very smart man. He knew what he was doing with his body language (considering the way that Black congregations behaved in Church, all ministers understood the power of body language and symbols). His being a minister, didn't stop him from being a politician.

BluePlanet

It doesn't matter that Dr King took the knee in that photo, in prayer.
He's not around obviously to ask his opinion of kneeling in today's context.
But his daughter Bernice is:

"People didn't approve of the way my father protested injustice either; said he was causing trouble, called him an 'outside agitator,'" King, who was just five years old when her father was assassinated, said."

https://twitter.com/BerniceKing/status/911603501968642049

Fandymo

BluePlanet wrote: »

It doesn't matter that Dr King took the knee in that photo, in prayer.
He's not around obviously to ask his opinion of kneeling in today's context.
But his daughter Bernice is:

"People didn't approve of the way my father protested injustice either; said he was causing trouble, called him an 'outside agitator,'" King, who was just five years old when her father was assassinated, said."

https://twitter.com/BerniceKing/status/911603501968642049

What has his daughter opinion got to do with anything? She’s a randomer who was 5 when her father was killed. She was hardly neck deep in his protests. She was more than likely tucked up in bed away from them.

By her own admission, she only studied her fathers work later on in her life, so would only have gotten second and third hand accounts of him.

Penn

Fandymo wrote: »

What has his daughter opinion got to do with anything? She’s a randomer who was 5 when her father was killed. She was hardly neck deep in his protests. She was more than likely tucked up in bed away from them.

By her own admission, she only studied her fathers work later on in her life, so would only have gotten second and third hand accounts of him.

Whereas you on the other hand have access to the internet...

Well I don't know whose opinion to believe!

Fandymo

Penn wrote: »

Whereas you on the other hand have access to the internet...

Well I don't know whose opinion to believe!

I haven’t given any opinion. I’ve stated facts.

MLK was a baptist minister. Fact.
The photo of him taking a knee is during a prayer. Fact.
Prayers are to a higher power (God). Fact.

Penn

Fandymo wrote: »

I haven’t given any opinion. I’ve stated facts.

MLK was a baptist minister. Fact.
The photo of him taking a knee is during a prayer. Fact.
Prayers are to a higher power (God). Fact.

No but you're trying to discount Bernice King's accounting of her father based on the fact she was a child when he died, when she still knows far more about the man's history and intentions that you ever could.

She is, in your opinion, a "randomer". She is not.

BluePlanet

Fandymo knows more about MLK intentions than his daughter, and other black civil rights people?

Yeah i don't think so.

Fandymo

Can you lads remember much about when you were 5 years old?? I can’t.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

Can you lads remember much about when you were 5 years old?? I can’t.

Outside of a courthouse before they registered to vote and on top of that it was part of one of the most significant civil rights of our time. To claim that there was nothing political about the gesture and its location and what followed it, that's more denial than anything else.

Penn

Fandymo wrote: »

Can you lads remember much about when you were 5 years old?? I can’t.

No but I'm pretty sure if my father was one of the most famous civil rights leaders in the world and was assassinated when I was 5, I probably would have asked my relatives and those who knew him personally about him in all the years that followed.

But you're right, she probably waited 40 years and just googled him, and therefore only knows as much about him as you do.

Fandymo

Penn wrote: »

No but I'm pretty sure if my father was one of the most famous civil rights leaders in the world and was assassinated when I was 5, I probably would have asked my relatives and those who knew him personally about him in all the years that followed.

But you're right, she probably waited 40 years and just googled him, and therefore only knows as much about him as you do.

Im sure you know much more about her than she does herself. :rolleyes:


King said she has only two strong memories of her father, one of him at home with their family and the other of him lying in the casket at his funeral.


"I was five when my father was assassinated, so I had no concept of who my father really was. I have been told, but imagine trying to really understand or put it in its proper perspective at that age. When it finally became clear to me around fifteen or sixteen, I was angry at him because he left me. So I didn't want to have anything to do with my father."

Foxtrol

Fandymo wrote: »

Kneeling in church is in reverence to a higher power!!! What higher power is the knee in reverence to on the pitch?

The direct line to this kneeling protest is from Kaepernick's, who's protest switched to kneeling rather than sitting for the anthem due to his own outraged 'booers' who claimed sitting was too 'disrespectful' and 'divisive'.

As always when black people protest, him giving in to their requests did absolutely nothing to quell their boos and they succeeded in cancelling his football career.

Unclear whether the MLK stuff is accurate or revisionist, but the format of the Kaepernick protest and it spreading through sport is clear.

The the only thing Kaepernick was showing reverence to by kneeling was to outraged white people and even then it wasn't enough for them.

Foxtrol

Gradius wrote: »

No, big business aligns itself with money. Nothing more.

The loudest voices are the minority, they scream and shout and throw tantrums, go on witch hunts ("offence archaeology"!), organise boycotts, try to "cancel" people and brands, never shut up. Genuinely damaging people that can interrupt money flow.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil, and that's all there is to it.

People who support anti-racism messages tick practically every box a large company would want - just look at the demographics that vote democrat rather than republican. Democrats have the pure numbers, the wealth (outside of ultra high net worth), and the youth demographic. On top of that they also have the support of the higher educated, who the companies want to employ and then keep happy.

The loudest voices being the 'minority' is all in your head - a quite Trump like delusion. The right tries protests and cancel people every day, they just don't have the power to actually do it in most cases. The right is just as squeaky (see the boo boys in this case) but they just aren't important.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

People who support anti-racism messages tick practically every box a large company would want - just look at the demographics that vote democrat rather than republican. Democrats have the pure numbers, the wealth (outside of ultra high net worth), and the youth demographic. On top of that they also have the support of the higher educated, who the companies want to employ and then keep happy.

The loudest voices being the 'minority' is all in your head - a quite Trump like delusion. The right tries protests and cancel people every day, they just don't have the power to actually do it in most cases. The right is just as squeaky (see the boo boys in this case) but they just aren't important.

The obsession with trump continues.

It's a handy little veiled insult to call anyone who disagrees with your way of thinking as trumpian. It's the new Godwin law.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

The obsession with trump continues.

It's a handy little veiled insult to call anyone who disagrees with your way of thinking as trumpian. It's the new Godwin law.

Hard to avoid the comparison when the poster is parroting his talking point.

What you're doing is like claiming Godwin's law when a poster is quoting Hitler - a weak distraction tactic rather than dealing with the core of my post

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Hard to avoid the comparison when the poster is parroting his talking point.

What you're doing is like claiming Godwin's law when a poster is quoting Hitler - a weak distraction tactic rather than dealing with the core of my post

It's because I disagree with the core of your post and to be honest, I see no need to enter into a conversation about it. It's flawed and ignores the people who rather remain silent than run the risk of getting cancelled by the vocal minority

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

It's because I disagree with the core of your post and to be honest, I see no need to enter into a conversation about it. It's flawed and ignores the people who rather remain silent than run the risk of getting cancelled by the vocal minority

You have the right to disagree with me but your opinion doesn't seem to be backed up by anything - you, the OP, and Trump have absolutely no evidence to support that you are in the 'silent majority'.

It might make you feel better to keep repeating it but you are far from silent and you're not in the majority.

Fandymo

Foxtrol wrote: »

The direct line to this kneeling protest is from Kaepernick's, who's protest switched to kneeling rather than sitting for the anthem due to his own outraged 'booers' who claimed sitting was too 'disrespectful' and 'divisive'.

As always when black people protest, him giving in to their requests did absolutely nothing to quell their boos and they succeeded in cancelling his football career.

Unclear whether the MLK stuff is accurate or revisionist, but the format of the Kaepernick protest and it spreading through sport is clear.

The the only thing Kaepernick was showing reverence to by kneeling was to outraged white people and even then it wasn't enough for them.

He could have taken a knee before he went into the game rather than during the anthem, although given his final season stats he wouldn’t have gotten as much attention. 2nd worst QB stats in the league. The worst QB who’s stats weren’t a lot worse than Kaepernicks was dropped without fuss.

Fandymo

Fandymo wrote: »

He could have taken a knee before he went into the game rather than during the anthem, although given his final season stats he wouldn’t have gotten as much attention. 2nd worst QB stats in the league. The worst QB who’s stats weren’t a lot worse than Kaepernicks was dropped without fuss.

Based on the legal case, the NFL colluded to blacklist him...

Foxtrol

Fandymo wrote: »

He could have taken a knee before he went into the game rather than during the anthem, although given his final season stats he wouldn’t have gotten as much attention. 2nd worst QB stats in the league. The worst QB who’s stats weren’t a lot worse than Kaepernicks was dropped without fuss.

Teams took a knee after the anthem had finished and they were booed, other teams stayed in the locker room and they were booed, some players raised their fists and were they booed, teams even had a moment of silence and they were booed for it.

Complaining about the type of protest is just an excuse, like it has always been when black people protest. For a large group of people it will always be 'the wrong way'.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

You have the right to disagree with me but your opinion doesn't seem to be backed up by anything - you, the OP, and Trump have absolutely no evidence to support that you are in the 'silent majority'.

It might make you feel better to keep repeating it but you are far from silent and you're not in the majority.

Lol.

One minute I'm full of white privilege, the next I'm a minority who is very vocal.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol.

One minute I'm full of white privilege, the next I'm a minority who is very vocal.

Just in case you aren't being deliberately obtuse, a person can be in the majority when it comes to their race/religion/orientation while also being in a very vocal minority when it comes to their opinions/beliefs - like your passionate and vocal continued complaints about anti-racism protests.

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just in case you aren't being deliberately obtuse, a person can be in the majority when it comes to their race/religion/orientation while also being in a very vocal minority when it comes to their opinions/beliefs - like your passionate and vocal continued complaints about anti-racism protests.

I was being deliberately obtuse

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

I was being deliberately obtuse

Appreciate the clarification.

Impossible to tell the difference between that post of yours and your usual posting style on these threads

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

Appreciate the clarification.

Impossible to tell the difference between that post of yours and your usual posting style on these threads

No problem. I can see you needed a hand with your comprehension.

But anyway, if you honestly think that the majority of people support BLM and the kneeling gesture, then I wholly disagree.

If you think most people are anti racist, then I wholly agree

If you believe that people who oppose the kneeling gesture are de facto not anti racist, then I wholly disagree.