Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Ahwell

Ahwell wrote: »

I would assume it's the other way around. There has always been a racist element attached to English supporters. There has been no issue with Wales taking the knee, or at least no booing.

And that's proof that people can be in agreement with a message but see gestures differently.

I assume you dont think I'm a racist for acknowledging that people have a right to boo and I don't think you are a rabid BLM supporter for not liking the booing.

But we both hate racism I assume? And even though we are in disagreement, we can respect each others perspectives?

Ahwell

Deleted User wrote: »

But we both hate racism I assume? And even though we are in disagreement, we can respect each others perspectives?

Up to a point and that point is the booing. I can accept people thinking the gesture is ineffectual, or naive, or annoying, or just for show...etc...it's the booing I find unacceptable.

Ahwell

Ahwell wrote: »

Up to a point and that point is the booing. I can accept people thinking the gesture is ineffectual, or naive, or annoying, or just for show...etc...it's the booing I find unacceptable.

That's fair enough.

It's the kneeling I find unacceptable.

But we can agree that we both find racism appalling?

Ahwell

Deleted User wrote: »

But we can agree that we both find racism appalling?

I don't think someone who was racist would state that they find racism appalling...so yeah, I think we can agree on that.

Ahwell

Ahwell wrote: »

I don't think someone who was racist would state that they find racism appalling...so yeah, I think we can agree on that.

Good stuff.

I'm sorry we disagree on the kneeling ****e but am so happy that we agree on the most important issue which is racism.

Foxtrol

'They just want politics out of football'... :rolleyes:

The same precious creatures who won't be able to handle people peacefully protesting racism for a few seconds later without abusing the protesters.

https://twitter.com/theawayfans/status/1409880709888675842?s=20

jakiah

Whats that got to do with officially sanctioned political protest being made part of the the official matchday?

Fans can do what they like, wave rainbow banners, sing stupid songs, whatever you are having.

iamstop

Deleted User wrote: »

That's ok. You don't have to agree with them.

But I think they do. So I'm ok with it.

I'm assuming both of us are against racism?

You get your gesture happening... Win for you.

People protest what I feel is a racist gesture.... Win for me.

I see the booing in a different way than you do, but it's ok as it's only a blip in the couple of seconds before the match where we forget about it and enjoy the football

I'm sure there are some racists booing for their own reasons, but I assume the vast majority are doing so out of frustration and because they disagree with the gesture.

Please tell me how taking a knee is a racist gesture? Genuinely want to know. I've seen it said a few times and can't see the link.

Gentlemanne

iamstop wrote: »

Please tell me how taking a knee is a racist gesture? Genuinely want to know. I've seen it said a few times and can't see the link.

In some people's eyes there is absolutely no "right way" to protest racism, but I've never seen it to such an extent that even a peaceful and respectful gesture, is actually racist itself?? An incredible conclusion!

iamstop

iamstop wrote: »

Please tell me how taking a knee is a racist gesture? Genuinely want to know. I've seen it said a few times and can't see the link.

It's simply because of its link to the BLM movement.

iamstop

Deleted User wrote: »

It's simply because of its link to the BLM movement.

From wikipedia:

"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people.[1][2][3][4][5] While there are specific organizations such as the Black Lives Matter Global Network that label themselves simply as "Black Lives Matter", the Black Lives Matter movement comprises a broad array of people and organizations. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" itself remains untrademarked by any group.[6] The broader movement and its related organizations typically advocate against police violence toward black people as well as for various other policy changes considered to be related to black liberation.[7]"

I need to ask how and why the BLM movement is racist. Is it because they are specifically protesting the violence by police against black people and not others? Should they extend the umbrella to include Asians, Mexicans, Whites and Natives too?

Here is some further reading for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Disinformation

BLM is certainly controversial. I get that. I struggle to find it racist. Taking the knee is a form of protest, linked to BLM or not I struggle to see it as racist.

iamstop

iamstop wrote: »

From wikipedia:

"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people.[1][2][3][4][5] While there are specific organizations such as the Black Lives Matter Global Network that label themselves simply as "Black Lives Matter", the Black Lives Matter movement comprises a broad array of people and organizations. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" itself remains untrademarked by any group.[6] The broader movement and its related organizations typically advocate against police violence toward black people as well as for various other policy changes considered to be related to black liberation.[7]"

I need to ask how and why the BLM movement is racist. Is it because they are specifically protesting the violence by police against black people and not others? Should they extend the umbrella to include Asians, Mexicans, Whites and Natives too?

Here is some further reading for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Disinformation

BLM is certainly controversial. I get that. I struggle to find it racist. Taking the knee is a form of protest, linked to BLM or not I struggle to see it as racist.

BLM has stoked racial tensions and divided people on racial grounds since the death of George Floyd and I believe they have done much more harm than good ,painting black people as victims and white people as oppressors.

I personally would never support anything that is remotely associated with them. if you find them ok, then more power to you.

Sweetemotion

iamstop wrote: »

I need to ask how and why the BLM movement is racist. Is it because they are specifically protesting the violence by police against black people.

What a load of bull.


Here are 10 requests from BLM to white people.


https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

iamstop wrote: »

Should they extend the umbrella to include Asians,

They tried too, until they relised most of the Asian hate crimes weren't from white people.

Danzy

BluePlanet wrote: »

It's a practice popularized by Martin Luther King Jr.

That's him in prayer. I suspect he'd be horrified at it. Especially the way it is About making the self the focus, rather than the greater good.

Gentlemanne

[Deleted User] wrote: »

BLM has stoked racial tensions and divided people on racial grounds since the death of George Floyd and I believe they have done much more harm than good ,painting black people as victims and white people as oppressors.

I personally would never support anything that is remotely associated with them. if you find them ok, then more power to you.

Is this Black Lives Matter explicitly saying this or is it, this isn't a rhetorical question this is definitely who it is, right wing outlets framing it like this?

Gentlemanne

Danzy wrote: »

That's him in prayer. I suspect he'd be horrified at it. Especially the way it is About making the self the focus, rather than the greater good.

Yeah, Civil rights Leader Martin Luther King Jr. would be disgusted by peaceful anti-racism protests. That would be something he would be HORRIFIED by.

nullzero

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Yeah, Civil rights Leader Martin Luther King Jr. would be disgusted by MOSTLY peaceful anti-racism protests. That would be something he would be HORRIFIED by.

FYP

You need to know your jargon if you're going to stay on message.

Danzy

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Yeah, Civil rights Leader Martin Luther King Jr. would be disgusted by peaceful anti-racism protests. That would be something he would be HORRIFIED by.

Off topic, we are talking about people taking the Knee and by default the BLM protests.

archfi

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Yeah, Civil rights Leader Martin Luther King Jr. would be disgusted by peaceful anti-racism protests. That would be something he would be HORRIFIED by.

I don't think he'd be enamoured by CRT, the fuel that drives it.

Hamsterchops

Ok ok we got the message months ago, you guys (footballers) took the knee many times and you made your point, (a very good point), and we all agree with the sentiment, but there comes a time when 'some people' start to get fed up with gestures that go on too long . . . . . and that point has come.

Footballers, take the knee if you must, but at this stage some people will start to yawn or boo or start to make negative comments, because in my opinion, it's going on too long.

Rant over

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

That's him in prayer. I suspect he'd be horrified at it. Especially the way it is About making the self the focus, rather than the greater good.

Outside of a courthouse as part of a civil rights march so pretending it was an apolitical gesture is a tad dishonest, it wasn't a prayer meet. On top of that his daughter views it as a political gesture. Meanwhile you're making the huge leap that he would be disgusted by peaceful protesting..

Gentlemanne

archfi wrote: »

I don't think he'd be enamoured by CRT, the fuel that drives it.

Haha, the new american conservative outrage buzzword has reached Ireland it seems.

The same people were obsessed with "political correctness", "cultural marxism" etc. without even knowing what any of that means. The same con-men who don't want americas history of racism taught also didnt want evolution to be taught:
https://twitter.com/deportablediz/status/1409071152148975618?s=20

Retr0gamer

iamstop wrote: »

From wikipedia:

"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement protesting against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people.[1][2][3][4][5] While there are specific organizations such as the Black Lives Matter Global Network that label themselves simply as "Black Lives Matter", the Black Lives Matter movement comprises a broad array of people and organizations. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" itself remains untrademarked by any group.[6] The broader movement and its related organizations typically advocate against police violence toward black people as well as for various other policy changes considered to be related to black liberation.[7]"

I need to ask how and why the BLM movement is racist. Is it because they are specifically protesting the violence by police against black people and not others? Should they extend the umbrella to include Asians, Mexicans, Whites and Natives too?

Here is some further reading for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter#Disinformation

BLM is certainly controversial. I get that. I struggle to find it racist. Taking the knee is a form of protest, linked to BLM or not I struggle to see it as racist.

I wouldn't bother. Most racist people don't consider themselves racist even when presented with the facts. What that leads to is the usual I'm not racist but statements we are seeing here. It's hard for these people to accept that what they are saying or advocating is really disgusting and that the justifications they use to justify it to themselves and others are just confirmation bias and/or far right lies.

Hande hoche!

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Haha, the new american conservative outrage buzzword has reached Ireland it seems.

The same people were obsessed with "political correctness", "cultural marxism" etc. without even knowing what any of that means. The same con-men who don't want americas history of racism taught also didnt want evolution to be taught:
https://twitter.com/deportablediz/status/1409071152148975618?s=20

Missed opportunity to mention wokeness.

TomTomTim

archfi wrote: »

I don't think he'd be enamoured by CRT, the fuel that drives it.

The fact that they think a man, whose end goal was pure individualism, would support a collectivist movement, is absurd, but not shocking.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't bother. Most racist people don't consider themselves racist even when presented with the facts.

Most people YOU consider racist aren't racist.

Huge difference.

TomTomTim

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't bother. Most racist people don't consider themselves racist even when presented with the facts. What that leads to is the usual I'm not racist but statements we are seeing here. It's hard for these people to accept that what they are saying or advocating is really disgusting and that the justifications they use to justify it to themselves and others are just confirmation bias and/or far right lies.

I haven't seen any of those. I have seen numerous people on this site, through the years, ask posters like you to back up claims like this, which you never do. Many of the people who make claims like yours do the equivalent of saying "there's racism in the air, so I can't point to it". Is that what you consider a "fact"?

extra gravy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Footballers, take the knee if you must, but at this stage some people will start to yawn or boo or start to make negative comments, because in my opinion, it's going on too long.

Rant over

If you think the protests are going on too long, wait until you hear how long racism has being going on. Sure it's grand though, let's allow them to protest for as long as you deem suitable.

Hamsterchops

extra gravy wrote: »

If you think the protests are going on too long, wait until you hear how long racism has being going on. Sure it's grand though, let's allow them to protest for as long as you deem suitable.

Ah, but you know what I mean, our attention has been captured by the bend the knee message and we have received the message loud and clear, and it's now well ingrained in our consciousness, hence message delivered.

But just like a BBQ or a boiler, there comes a time when you can let go of the ignition switch and let the system flow by itself otherwise you get issues with some people (the booing people for example).

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

If you think the protests are going on too long, wait until you hear how long racism has being going on. Sure it's grand though, let's allow them to protest for as long as you deem suitable.

Is the knee bending against racism or is it in ​support of BLM? If it's against racism why did they never do it until George Floyd got killed? Was it not an issue then?