Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

Gentlemanne

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It wasn't long ago people were going ape **** about people making the okay symbol, saying it was racist

Nope, this was right wing media pretending that people were upset at the gesture in general with no context whatsoever.

There was a lot of background behind the reason the okay gesture was controversial, a lot of open white nationalists like Baked Alaska and Nick Feuntes use it as a dog-whistle. Even a mass shooter motivated by racism used it, because he KNEW that is recognised by his Nazi cohort.

It's unbelievable how many times I can recognise you falling for right wing propaganda.

Gentlemanne

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Nope, this was right wing media pretending that people were upset at the gesture in general with no context whatsoever.

There was a lot of background behind the reason the okay gesture was controversial, a lot of open white nationalists like Baked Alaska and Nick Feuntes use it as a dog-whistle. Even a mass shooter motivated by racism used it, because he KNEW that is recognised by his Nazi cohort.

It's unbelievable how many times I can recognise you falling for right wing propaganda.

And its unbelievable how you believe you aren't falling for left wing propaganda

Retr0gamer

Deleted User wrote: »

And its unbelievable how you believe you aren't falling for left wing propaganda

:rolleyes:

nolivesmatter

Foxtrol wrote: »

Get off, you knew exactly what you were doing with your statement invoking Nazis - Godwins law at its finest.

If I came out claiming that the Nazi's also didn't like it when people protested against racism you and others would rightly call me out on it.

I know it is tough to defend these outraged fans but you can do better than that weak trick.

I've already explained what I was doing, but please elaborate since you know better. I don't think you can though. I think you got triggered by the mere sight of the word nazi in a BLM thread without considering the context in which it was mentioned.

Baggly

Mod

Can we improve the standard of discussion in this thread please.

Please try to engage civilly and put a little more thought and effort into posts. This is a discussion on a specific topic, not a direct one on one fight - so debate the points and leave out anything personal.

Thanks.

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not engaging in deflection.

It's a morally grey are that's quite complex and has its own thread. Stop derailing while thinking you have a point to prove.

Booing the knee on the other hand is black and white if you excuse the pub

Booing the knee is not black and white, its association with left-wing politics from the anglosphere is a bone of contention for many football fans across Europe.

Ahwell

jakiah wrote: »

Booing the knee is not black and white, its association with left-wing politics from the anglosphere is a bone of contention for many football fans across Europe.

Let's get this into perspective, the majority of English supporters are in favour of taking the knee. Those few that are now booing are a tiny minority of a minority. No other team who took the knee during this tournament were booed by a section of their own fans.

Danzy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not a cute little tactic. I'm just calling out racist dog whistling when I see it. I didn't call anyone a racist but what I am trying to explain is that saying you are against taking the knee because it's associated with a socialist domestic terror organisation, BLM, is echoing racist far right dog whistling.

BLM is a slogan taken up by the anti racism movement. It's been explained many, many times that the BLM movement has nothing to do with any charlatan organizations taking the BLM name. The vast majority of people that support the BLM movement don't recognise these dopes and denounce the violence at the very small minority of protests. That's the facts. Whether you choose to believe them is up to you.

However these so called BLM organisations and the violence have enabled the far right to spew racist dog whistling about BLM being associated with socialists and violence. But it's nonsense. It's racist rhethoric and repeating and spreading it is spreading a racist message even if you think 'I'm not racist but...'. It's the exact same as the right calling the Democrats 'socialist' in America when the same party would be seen a very right wing in any parliament.

Taking the knee is statement against racism. BLM is a slogan and a movement against racism. However there's a lot of racist hate groups out there muddying the waters and trying to associate both with anti establishment groups to suit their racist agenda. Organisations calling themselves BLM are like the National Socialist party calling themselves 'Socialist'.

So by keeping up that type of thinking you are spreading hate group rhetoric and fallen for their lies. Well done.

Hard to tell if you are being genuine, really believe it.

There are a lot of leaps and unquestioning acceptance to get to where you are.

OMM 0000

I completely agree with booing the knee.

Take your stupid political opinions out of sport and be a professional.

Allinall

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I completely agree with booing the knee.

Take your stupid political opinions out of sport and be a professional.

What’s political about being against racism?

OMM 0000

Allinall wrote: »

What’s political about being against racism?

I wish I could dislike this post, as it's incredibly dishonest.

You, me, and everyone here knows taking a knee is a political gesture (radical left).

Zero right wingers take a knee, and it's not because tHeY aRe rAcIsTs.

Allinall

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I wish I could dislike this post, as it's incredibly dishonest.

You, me, and everyone here knows taking a knee is a political gesture (radical left).

Zero right wingers take a knee, and it's not because tHeY aRe rAcIsTs.

It was a very straight question.

Maybe you just don’t want to answer.

Danzy

Allinall wrote: »

What’s political about being against racism?

Lol.

OMM 0000

Allinall wrote: »

It was a very straight question.

Maybe you just don’t want to answer.

I refuse to believe you are this literal and do not understand the politics behind taking a knee.

I can already tell talking to you is going to be incredibly frustrating so welcome to my ignore list.

Allinall

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I refuse to believe you are this literal and do not understand the politics behind taking a knee.

I can already tell talking to you is going to be incredibly frustrating so welcome to my ignore list.

Ah. So you don’t want to answer.

That’s fair enough.

TomTomTim

Allinall wrote: »

Ah. So you don’t want to answer.

That’s fair enough.

Anti racism, results in policies, so it is political by it's very nature. This attempt to claim that all left wing politics aren't political is beyond dishonest, and is simply a door for ideologues to beat the world over the head with their beliefs.

Silentcorner

Allinall wrote: »

Ah. So you don’t want to answer.

That’s fair enough.

There has been a number of Anti Racism initiative's over the years that have all been very well supported and as such certainly in the UK racism is simply not part of the broad football culture.

It's not there....

From what I can see, the only racism is on social media, these guys have personnel to handle virtually all their off field revenue streams, social media included....because the money they earn from their contracts aren't enough these days...it's shake down of their supporters.

The could switch off racism tomorrow if they wanted to...if they closed their social media accounts, but we know they won't!!!

This was started by the death of a guy in The States....where it was politicized and it spread to football teams in the UK...if they want to kneel for a political gesture, then the people who pay to watch are entitled to react any way they like....unless you think those people should be quietened!!!!

Retr0gamer

It's started before George floyd. It started before BLM.

Silentcorner

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's started before George floyd. It started before BLM.

Taking a knee before games in the UK didn't.

Sand

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why do you presume racists are only people with 'less power'? Plenty of evidence there are plenty of powerful racists out there.

Why do you assume all the white people being targeted by the performance are racists? You already stated that "racism is a real and ongoing threat by white people against non-white people." So "anti-racism" gestures by your own definition are targeting white people generally.

It is fairly well understood that millionaire footballers have far more financial and social power than any fan in the ground watching this punching down ritual. And that all power stands behind the millionaire taking the knee whilst demonizing the everyday man in the stands booing him.

What you're doing is whataboutery at its finest. If you want to go down that road, why aren't you and English fans putting your effort into protesting the murder of English children rather than being outraged about peaceful seconds long anti-racism protests? :rolleyes:

Any objective analysis has to accept that Premier League footballers were more outraged by the death of GF in America than by the Manchester Arena bombing on English children. Or the murder of Rigby, a British soldier. Or the systematic rape of English girls.

I fully agree that English fans should be putting their efforts into protesting the murder of English children. Why aren't they? The message they were given by power at the time of the Manchester Arena bombing was "Don't look back in anger". The message they were given at the time of the Rigby murder was that NALXALT. The message they were given at the time of the systematic rape of English girls was that it never happened. A people without responsible leadership is of course going to be confused in their response.

But they can still instinctively recognize the bull**** of being told by that same power that the death of a habitual criminal and drug user in the US is the great injustice of the modern era. They can recognize that they have had to accept and swallow humiliating costs, up to and including the rape and murder of their children. But they have to pretend to be broken up about GFs martyrdom? That is the incident which gets footballers, media, politicians and finance outraged? Hence the booing.

The guys booing taking the knee are like the Tiananmen Square 'Tank Man'. They are dissidents against the illegitimate power and face similar levels of repression.

Retr0gamer

And there you have it folks.

Anti racism is an attack on the poor repressed white folk in a classic fallacy.

A bunch of whataboutery with a nice side of racist anti islamic whataboutery.

And to top it off, people booing the knee are heroes of the same calibre as the tiananmen square tank guy.

*Slow clap*

Danzy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And there you have it folks.

Anti racism is an attack on the poor repressed white folk in a classic fallacy.

A bunch of whataboutery with a nice side of racist anti islamic whataboutery.

And to top it off, people booing the knee are heroes of the same calibre as the tiananmen square tank guy.

*Slow clap*

I'd say you see yourself as a force for good, a moral person, fighting injustices and wrong doers.

Most of the reaction against kneeling etc is a Push back on the clerical types who preach loudest about it.

Didn't like the type when they were screaming from the pulpit About hell years ago, don't like their modern manifestation.

It's narcissism that drives them, regardless of the why or cause.

Political activism has been completely hijacked by these types in the past few years.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And there you have it folks.

Anti racism is an attack on the poor repressed white folk in a classic fallacy.

A bunch of whataboutery with a nice side of racist anti islamic whataboutery.

And to top it off, people booing the knee are heroes of the same calibre as the tiananmen square tank guy.

*Slow clap*

That kind of rhetoric is an actual racists wet dream.

Any gripe, any concern, any feeling of being hard-done-by because of being white, is immediately dismissed and belittled by super-white-knighting ProgressiveMan.

Believe it or not, many white people do feel alienated because of the "shut up and listen" l, "white privilege" or sarcastic bollocks like "ooh the poor oppressed white person" ****e spouted by so called progressive people.

Its absolutely as egregious for a white person to be made feel shame for the colour of their skin, or to be told that their opinion doesn't matter because they are white than it is when it happens to a black person.

Anti racist? Don't think so.

Retr0gamer

But nobody has said anything like that? I never said anything about feeling shame for being white. That's all you. It's like you are projecting the insecurity on yourself about being white.

It's more so I'm baffled that white people are suffering the same kind of repression that people of colour are. It's pants on head ludicrous.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

But nobody has said anything like that? I never said anything about feeling shame for being white. That's all you. It's like you are projecting the insecurity on yourself about being white.

It's more so I'm baffled that white people are suffering the same kind of repression that people of colour are. It's pants on head ludicrous.

It's like I'm projecting insecurity?

Not even a little bit.

It's because I can see racist abuse my daughter gets from racists on both sides for simultaneously being too white and not black enough (depending on the racist).

She also gets abuse for her dad being white. I get abuse for my daughter not being white.

What we find even more infuriating though is the "progressive" stance of white people can't be victims and should listen to people of colour as they have it worse. Every single racist insult is as cutting as the other. None better, none worse. Some are more common, but not as common as supposed anti racism and offensive white knighting.

So your "poor repressed white folk" twee comment when people NOT of colour talk about their whiteness being used as an example of privilege in the media or by progressives, is absolutely tone deaf if you pretend to be anti racist.

jakiah

Retr0gamer wrote: »

But nobody has said anything like that? I never said anything about feeling shame for being white. That's all you. It's like you are projecting the insecurity on yourself about being white.

It's more so I'm baffled that white people are suffering the same kind of repression that people of colour are. It's pants on head ludicrous.

You havent a clue. Working class white football fans in Europe have no priviledge, they are the embodiment of disenfranchisement. Class based discrimination, income inequality, mass untreated mental health issues, lack of access to education & employment, issues with abuse, violence and bullying, widespread substance abuse and alcoholism and issues with policing and law are the concerns of these lads.


They are not interested in your middle class white-knight internet social justice warrior talking points. They dont care about some lad murdered in American or some rich twat getting abuse on twitter. But keep up the hysterical screeching about racism or whatever.

Retr0gamer

You lads should start your own little protest for racism against white people then.

Sure you might white people can be oppressed. Anyone can. But to lash out against another protest that just because you don't come under its umbrella is both a fallacy and is ridiculous and embarrassing.

completedit

Anyone see Griezmann and Dembele making fun of and abusing the Asian technicians in the hotel? Seems anti-racist is about being anti racist against African Americans and to a lesser extent, Africans in Europe.

hotmail.com

The knee thing was always about American Black Lives.

It's hardly surprising that people in Europe are getting fed up with American campaigns.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You lads should start your own little protest for racism against white people then.

Sure you might white people can be oppressed. Anyone can. But to lash out against another protest that just because you don't come under its umbrella is both a fallacy and is ridiculous and embarrassing.

Condescending response. Frankly not surprising.

And I will continue to lash out at a gesture associated with BLM.

I repeat, for the millionth time, I oppose the gesture and its association with BLM, not it's message.

You know this but it can't fit into your "everyone who disagrees with me is racist or stupid" narrative and your "i'm the good type of white" saviour complex.