Booing the knee Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP

Retr0gamer · 03-07-2021 1:13pm

Actually no it's isn't. That's all on you.

As I said multiple times my issue is with people conflating the BLM movement with gob****e organisations using the BLM name for their own publicity. Its certain people's failure to figure that one out that I have issue with.

Danzy · 03-07-2021 1:18pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You lads should start your own little protest for racism against white people then.

Sure you might white people can be oppressed. Anyone can. But to lash out against another protest that just because you don't come under its umbrella is both a fallacy and is ridiculous and embarrassing.

How do you even get to that?

Retr0gamer · 03-07-2021 1:30pm

Danzy wrote: »

How do you even get to that?

Because it's true and you can confirm it pretty easily considering none of those so called organisations existed before the blm movement.

But don't let evidence based metric put you off preconceptions.

So to put it back to you, how do you even get to that assumption?

03-07-2021 2:20pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Actually no it's isn't. That's all on you.

As I said multiple times my issue is with people conflating the BLM movement with gob****e organisations using the BLM name for their own publicity. Its certain people's failure to figure that one out that I have issue with.

Again you are SPECTACULARLY missing the point, and at this stage I can only assume it's on purpose.

The BLM movement did nothing but excuse the misbehaviour of zealots who terrorised countries, and attributed blame on innocent people under the guise of being progressive.

You only need to see politicians, mostly in America defending the violence during protests and sometimes actively encouraging it.

The gesture of choice for the people doing this was the taking the knee.

For an initiative which seeks to stamp out racism and bring races together to use this symbol as their gesture was a terrible mistake at best and purposely inflammatory at worst.

I'm not claiming all taking the knee are BLM activists, but they are using a gesture which is known world wide as being associated with that movement.

I don't support that and support the right of people to boo it.

You on the other hand accuse people like me of racism or stupidity for feeling that way as you seem to consider yourself the benchmark of being an anti racism ally.

You aren't.

hotmail.com · 03-07-2021 2:32pm

Taking the knee just looks cringey at this stage.

joseywhales · 03-07-2021 2:47pm

I don't understand , either we believe in freedom of non violent expressing or we don't. We don't have to support or discuss the intended or our perceived meaning, we can simply support one's right to make a gesture or expression. Do we want to live in a world where expression is controlled by government?

TomTomTim · 03-07-2021 3:39pm

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't understand , either we believe in freedom of non violent expressing or we don't. We don't have to support or discuss the intended or our perceived meaning, we can simply support one's right to make a gesture or expression. Do we want to live in a world where expression is controlled by government?

It's not that simple though is it? I know that people are trying to pretend that there's no links to BLM, but that's just gaslighting of the worst kind. It was linked to BLM, and BLM supporters spent the summer justifying violence, looting, and all sorts of other damage. That means that there's a connection between the violent protests and the peaceful protests. Hence peoples unwillingness to jump on the bandwagon.

03-07-2021 3:44pm

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't understand , either we believe in freedom of non violent expressing or we don't. We don't have to support or discuss the intended or our perceived meaning, we can simply support one's right to make a gesture or expression. Do we want to live in a world where expression is controlled by government?

Are you making the case for supporting people to boo the knee. Because if you are, fair point.

Kneel if you want, but people are free to voice their displeasure.

Sue de Nimes · 03-07-2021 3:44pm

TomTomTim wrote: »

It's not that simple though is it? I know that people are trying to pretend there's no links to BLM, just that's just gaslighting of the worst kind. It was linked to BLM, and BLM supporters spent the summer justifying violence, looting, and all sorts of other damage. That means, that there's a connection between violent protests and the peaceful protest. Hence peoples unwillingness to jump on the bandwagon.

I am really annoyed at the people trying to pretend there are no links to BLM.

"England captain Harry Kane says Premier League players should continue to take a knee before matches in support of the Black Lives Matter movement."

It is just insulting to people's intelligence to now say that the gesture people were doing to support the BLM movement is now nothing to do with the BLM movement

TomTomTim · 03-07-2021 3:46pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I am really annoyed at the people trying to pretend there are no links to BLM.

"England captain Harry Kane says Premier League players should continue to take a knee before matches in support of the Black Lives Matter movement."

It is just insulting to people's intelligence to now say that the gesture people were doing to support the BLM movement is now nothing to do with the BLM movement

The outright denial of reality is beyond frustrating, and makes debate impossible, but maybe that's the point?

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 4:36pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I am really annoyed at the people trying to pretend there are no links to BLM.

"England captain Harry Kane says Premier League players should continue to take a knee before matches in support of the Black Lives Matter movement."

It is just insulting to people's intelligence to now say that the gesture people were doing to support the BLM movement is now nothing to do with the BLM movement

The Premier League very deliberately dropped the association with BLM as far back as last September. As a club captain, Harry Kane would have been at the meeting were that decision was made.

https://news.sky.com/story/premier-league-drops-black-lives-matter-slogan-from-players-shirts-12068430

Edit: Hugo Lloris is club captain, Harry Kane is vice-captain.

Sue de Nimes · 03-07-2021 4:49pm

Ahwell wrote: »

The Premier League very deliberately dropped the association with BLM as far back as last September. As a club captain, Harry Kane would have been at the meeting were that decision was made.

https://news.sky.com/story/premier-league-drops-black-lives-matter-slogan-from-players-shirts-12068430

Edit: Hugo Lloris is club captain, Harry Kane is vice-captain.

They dropped the association while continuing to do the thing closely associated with BLM. Seems like they made a mess of things, didn't they?

If they wanted to drop any association with BLM it might have been a good idea to stop doing the thing closely associated with BLM?

Pretty much all of this would go away if they decided to do anything else to show their opposition to racism other than the BLM thing.

What is next, people protesting against antisemitism by doing Nazi salutes and shouting "sieg heil"? It is OK lads, we aren't supporting the Nazis, we just want to show our solidarity with Jews. Anyone who thinks we mean anything else is just a racist.

It really takes a special kind of person to think that someone can mean two different things by the same action, and that the person at fault is the person confused by this.

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 4:56pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

Pretty much all of this would go away if they decided to do anything else to show their opposition to racism other than the BLM thing.

It has pretty much gone away. Hardly anyone is booing the gesture at the matches anymore, or haven't you noticed?

mikethecop · 03-07-2021 5:32pm

Ahwell wrote: »

It has pretty much gone away. Hardly anyone is booing the gesture at the matches anymore, or haven't you noticed?

id wait till after 8pm this evening to make that call

Polar101 · 03-07-2021 5:46pm

Ahwell wrote: »

It has pretty much gone away. Hardly anyone is booing the gesture at the matches anymore, or haven't you noticed?

It's only (or mostly) a certain group of fans from an island near Ireland who behave that way. And not all of them, obviously.

03-07-2021 5:47pm

Even if the booing has tapered away, the initial point of the booing was, and remains valid.

If you are suggesting that a lack of booing means that the English players have made racists see the errors of their ways and no longer boo, then that's delusional.

I think the most likely reason for the lack of booing would be the fans are simply apathetic about the initiative. Well done guys. People don't give a **** about the initiative.

And to think how powerful a message it could have been if they picked a unifying gesture, rather than one they thought would garner the most attention, negative or positive.

I hope the English players aren't boo-ed and the focus remains on the football, but wholeheartedly support the fans if they wish to voice their displeasure.

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 6:05pm

mikethecop wrote: »

id wait till after 8pm this evening to make that call

All depends on the opposing fans at this stage. High possibility Ukraine fans will boo and if England get to the next stage it's likely Denmark fans won't.

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 6:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Even if the booing has tapered away, the initial point of the booing was, and remains valid.

If you are suggesting that a lack of booing means that the English players have made racists see the errors of their ways and no longer boo, then that's delusional.

I think the most likely reason for the lack of booing would be the fans are simply apathetic about the initiative. Well done guys. People don't give a **** about the initiative.

I don't agree it was valid. It's not just that the booing has stopped, the cheering of the gesture has got louder with each subsequent match. Didn't sound like apathy to me. In a way, them continuing with the gesture has been quite effective.

03-07-2021 6:25pm

Ahwell wrote: »

I don't agree it was valid. It's not just that the booing has stopped, the cheering of the gesture has got louder with each subsequent match. Didn't sound like apathy to me. In a way, them continuing with the gesture has been quite effective.

In what way?

What effect has it made?

Is racism finished?

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 6:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In what way?

What effect has it made?

Is racism finished?

The booing has been drowned out by the cheering.

03-07-2021 6:38pm

Ahwell wrote: »

The booing has been drown out by the cheering.

Or...the people booing have made their point and are now apathetic.

It's been an incredibly decisive decision which has resulted in nothing positive apart from generating headlines and allowing idiots to feel better about themselves by incorrectly brandishing people as racists.

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 6:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or...the people booing have made their point and are now apathetic.

I don't buy that as a reason.

03-07-2021 6:48pm

Ahwell wrote: »

I don't buy that as a reason.

I'm not asking you to. I am not trying to convince you.

I just think it's far more likely that people have made their point and now couldn't give a **** if the players want to posture than people seeing the players knee and saying:

"you know, racism IS wrong, let's cheer so they know we hate racism too. Hadn't that opinion a couple of weeks ago but the sheer persistence of these millionaires has convinced me."

Sue de Nimes · 03-07-2021 7:09pm

Ahwell wrote: »

I don't buy that as a reason.

I've not watched a single minute of Englad playing since they started doing this. I'm a dual Irish/English national and would normally cheer England on. I just don't care about them at the moment.

I doubt I am the only person who feels like this.

Ahwell · 03-07-2021 7:22pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I've not watched a single minute of Englad playing since they started doing this. I'm a dual Irish/English national and would normally cheer England on. I just don't care about them at the moment.

I doubt I am the only person who feels like this.

That's up to you, but the majority of English fans do actually support them taking the knee. It's not a huge majority, but a majority nonetheless. YouGov has it at 54% for, 39% against, 7% not arsed.

Sue de Nimes · 03-07-2021 7:24pm

Ahwell wrote: »

That's up to you, but the majority of English fans do actually support them taking the knee. It's not a huge majority, but a majority nonetheless. YouGov has it at 54% for, 39% against, 7% not arsed.

39% is a pretty large proportion of people to be alienating. It seems pretty daft to suggest 39% of people are racist. Maybe the FA should consider changing their antiracism messaging to something less divisive?

francois · 03-07-2021 7:28pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

39% is a pretty large proportion of people to be alienating. It seems pretty daft to suggest 39% of people are racist. Maybe the FA should consider changing their antiracism messaging to something less divisive?

Still, a minority is a minority

03-07-2021 7:31pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I've not watched a single minute of Englad playing since they started doing this. I'm a dual Irish/English national and would normally cheer England on. I just don't care about them at the moment.

I doubt I am the only person who feels like this.

I'm sure some of the players or those deeply involved feel the same way, but you certainly wouldn't want to be vocal about it anyway so they'll just comply and proceed.

03-07-2021 8:54pm

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I've not watched a single minute of Englad playing since they started doing this. I'm a dual Irish/English national and would normally cheer England on. I just don't care about them at the moment.

I doubt I am the only person who feels like this.

In fairness I think that's a bit silly on your part.

If you don't care about them because of a gesture, I'd question if you cared in the first place.

I oppose the gesture but support the team.

But each to their own.

I like call of duty. When that gob****e Floyd was killed by that gob****e chauvin, call of duty put up a BLM message on the home screen.

I didn't like it but I still played it.

I wouldn't let these pricks stop me enjoying what I enjoy.

03-07-2021 8:56pm

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I'm sure some of the players or those deeply involved feel the same way, but you certainly wouldn't want to be vocal about it anyway so they'll just comply and proceed.

In fairness, comply and proceed seems to be the mantra of today's society.

Well put.

Booing the knee *Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP*

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Booing the knee Mod Note in Post 1232 and OP