RAF jets protecting Ireland

ted1

Tenger wrote: »

4 jets required in the US for training. (assuming we have F-18s and USAF instructors, Gripen's may require similar setup based in Sweden)
.

Not euro fighters ??

guy2231

Psychlops wrote: »

Great listen today:


https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/do-have-we-the-capacity-to-police-our-own-skies

We don't even have the capacity to police our own island, for over 70 years we laid claim to all of Ireland in our constitution then eventually had to change it.

Blut2

guy2231 wrote: »

We don't even have the capacity to police our own island, for over 70 years we laid claim to all of Ireland in our constitution then eventually had to change it.

We don't even have the capacity to police the center of Dublin, if all the rioting/assault videos coming out every single weekend these days are any indication.

I'd personally far rather the hundreds of millions of euro potentially spent on fighter jets yearly be spent on putting more gardai on the streets, as far as 'policing' the island goes. A lot more day-to-day benefit for the population.

Tenger

ted1 wrote: »

Not euro fighters ??

Older Eurofighters might be an option, if acquired 2nd hand. The earlier variants were air superiority rather than multi role.
But the Gripen certainly is marketed as a more affordable aircraft. The F-18 is a newer design than the F-16 an is in use with many air forces around the World, which has lowered its purchase and upkeep cost.

The Eurofighter is expected to compete against top of the line aircraft like F-15s and even F-35s in certain situation. (EG when stealth wasn’t included in the excercise)


Article in IT today:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-gaping-gap-in-ireland-s-airspace-defence-1.4597124

Lists a cost of E166m annually for 40 Gripens. “Full capability”
E8m per year is the current cost for the 8 PC9s.
Option 1 is 8 M346s at E18m per year.
Option 2 of 8x FA-50s is E20 m per year.

40 aircraft seems a lot but I’m sure it’s based on military requirements.
Quote in the article states that last year the chief of the IAC estimated a need for 16 fast jets with 3 crews each for a 24/7 response capability.

Further down it also mentions that the State received proposals from 3 defense firms for purchase of 1-3 air defense radar.
Personally I think getting that radars should be a priority over the actual aircraft. At least then we can monitor our airspace. Any incursions recorded could then be used as a pretext to acquire (or not) fast jet capability.

Henry Ford III

We're a neutral country. We've never needed jets to this point. Why do we need them now?

sparrowcar

Henry Ford III wrote: »

We're a neutral country. We've never needed jets to this point. Why do we need them now?

Reading back through the thread will give you an insight into the pros/cons and for/against arguments.

knucklehead6

Tenger wrote: »

Your overly dramatic picture is the work of a wierd mind. You should have a read of the 1990s Clancy-esque novel "Dark Rose"
(possibly the worst book I have ever read)

HOW DARE YOU!!!

Mike Lunnon Wood is a BRILLIANT author, and that book is sheer genius in its presentation, subject matter and literature. Future generations will look at it in the same way as todays scholars look at Shakespeare, Yeats, Wordsworth, Dylan Thomas, The Beatles, The Shawshank Redemption.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055220056
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055232811

Dohvolle

Blut2 wrote: »

Fighter jets look and sound great. My inner aviation nerd, and 14 year old boy, love them. But in the real world the billions of euros required, for something thats essentially of no practical use and is just for national pride, can be better spent on our hospitals, gardai, schools and roads. We have far more pressing needs as a nation.

But we aren't spending it on the hospitals, gardai, schools and roads now....

Blut2

I've got some slightly bad news for you if you think our hospitals, gardai, schools and roads are provided free of charge to the state currently.

They're all rather expensive to run, unfortunately.

Using the very conservative estimates in this thread of €100mn a year to run an Irish fighter jet program, the choice becomes having those fighter jets or employing roughly 1000 extra gardai and 500 extra nurses and 500 extra teachers for the country. Which do you think would be more useful?

Dohvolle

Tenger wrote: »

Which gap is that? The one facing west towards the North Atlantic, which is the path from which the Americans might come!

Because the GIUK gap (Of the Cold War fame) is pretty much covered by the USAF and the RAF.
RAF bases in Scotland get warning and can intercept any RuAF assets far earlier than we could.

And to our South the French and the Spanish have the South-Western approach covered.


If our "International partners" are worried about our lack of airspace defence we could follow the Iceland example. And have EU Allies make several short deployments a year.
Base 6-8 interceptors in Shannon for 4-6 weeks at a time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Air_Policing

That would be the most practical solution, but it would also cause the former commandant in Shannon to swallow his binoculars in shock.
It's a political "big boy" decision that nobody want's to make. Accept we cannot afford to defend our neutrality in the traditional sense, call it the excuse for underspending it always has been, and follow the Icelandic example. Let the RN chase subs in the Irish sea and off the west coast too while we are at it.
I'm sure NATO would love to have our west coast to train in.

Would be no harm getting some primary radar coverage off the western approaches though.

Dohvolle

Blut2 wrote: »

I've got some slightly bad news for you if you think our hospitals, gardai, schools and roads are provided free of charge to the state currently.

They're all rather expensive to run, unfortunately.

really?????

And where does that money come from? :rolleyes:

Stihl waters

sparrowcar wrote: »

Reading back through the thread will give you an insight into the pros/cons and for/against arguments.

Not really, if anyone can point out why on earth we'd need jets I'd love to hear it, no one has given any indication as to what countries potentially we would have to rebuff if the shìt hit the fan, if any invading force tried to have their way with us I think Europe, America or the brits would have something to say about it, the thought of spending billions on white elephants parked up in baldonnel for years until they're scrapped is not something that appeals to joe taxpayer, the bigger picture is that we've never been safer, even if things went to hell in the morning how many jets would we need to hold back the Russians or brits or the yanks, we'd be looking to someone else to bail us out

Psychlops

Here is an idea of what it takes.