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Fake Call
Comments
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I was on hols in cork last week and started getting the one from department of social protection literally every 30 minutes. I ignored several until I eventually pressed 1 and got a lad from the Middle East on the other end. I tried to pretend I worked for department of social protection and was tracing the call but just lost my temper and gave him a volley of abuse. The facade dropped quickly as he responded in kind.
Result is I haven’t had a call since then. I had received them sporadically in the previous couple of months and that’s the first time I engaged.0 -
Super-Rush wrote: »Somehow I've started to get these calls lately.
The numbers I've been getting calls from are trying to look like Bank Of Ireland.
When the phone rings my phone displays the number as 0353766801772.
I never answer and always decline and when i get e text to say I've missed a call, it displays the number as 076 680 1772. Very feckin crafty and would catch out an older person every time.
The missed call text is possibly generated by your voicemail service. It will display the text as if it's from the number you've missed the call from.
That call is full blown inbound fraud with a VoIP number that will accept calls.0 -
I'll take your word for it but on every android phone I've used, it turns off all radios. Not everyone uses apple devices
Yeah but that's way things are going with Bluetooth headphones in general - technology changes and airline regulations.
That 076 call however is a full blown fraudulent VoIP Number - I would make a formal complaint to ComReg about it.0 -
It would be worth alerting the Bank of Ireland helpdesk about that 076 number.
ComReg should be going after providers hosting those kinds of numbers though. If there's a report of fraud, it's not that hard to just get someone at the VoIP provider to call the number and investigate and if it's fraudulent activity the service should be suspended.
If they don't do that, I think they should lose their licence to interconnect with the telephone network.0 -
Got a missed call from a Dublin number. Googled it and it's apparently from someone claiming to be from Vodafone.0
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No point in contacting Comreg about 076/083/085/086/087/089 or indeed any number.
These scammers are located outside the country, they use terminating VoIP software that allows them to use ANY Caller Line Identity (CLI).
Essentially there is nothing that Comreg can do about these calls.0 -
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No point in contacting Comreg about 076/083/085/086/087/089 or indeed any number.
These scammers are located outside the country, they use terminating VoIP software that allows them to use ANY Caller Line Identity (CLI).
Essentially there is nothing that Comreg can do about these calls.
If there no way to track a large volume of calls all coming from the same location? Even internationally.0 -
If there no way to track a large volume of calls all coming from the same location? Even internationally.
No
Last year over $500m was scammed from Americans and over $400m from Australians.
Here's an excellent explanation from the Irish Times today
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/what-is-happening-with-the-plague-of-scam-phone-calls-1.46099550 -
No
Last year over $500m was scammed from Americans and over $400m from Australians.
Here's an excellent explanation from the Irish Times today
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/what-is-happening-with-the-plague-of-scam-phone-calls-1.4609955
It's not true that's its not possible to shut them down. It's just hard and too many vested interests don't want to.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-so-many-spam-robocalls-how-to-stop-them-2021-3
"..."When India and Pakistan shut down, you saw an instant decline in robocalls," ...."0 -
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Years ago without CLI you were always wary of who was calling.
If someone calls looking for money/offering money - it is too good to be true.
Software to generate Voice over Internet - any telephone number
https://youtu.be/a6oEG1zFPsE
Also to get up to speed on what is happening - search for 'Jim Browning' on youtube0 -
If there no way to track a large volume of calls all coming from the same location? Even internationally.
They buy VoIP services, likely using stolen credit and debit card details. They may have thousands of accounts in many locations, including here.
They then route calls in reasonable looking volumes through each, so they don’t necessarily get caught by any simple filters and the VoIP companies don’t know it’s not legitimate traffic.
What they could do though is block calls originating from outside Ireland displaying a +353 Caller ID or at least strip the caller ID off it. If the call came up as INVALID ID, you might not answer it.0 -
Seems like there's nothing they can do here. But they can go after the companies who use these services. They can target the gateway carriers. They can also pattern match the robocalls. Looks like progress is being made. But it's early days.0
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They need to target them at EU or even ITU level.
The calls aren’t likely to be coming in through any of the traditional telcos. They’re likely coming in on small VoIP carriers.
You can buy numbers almost anywhere in the world on those services. It’ll have to be regulated a lot better at international level.0 -
FuzzyThinking wrote: »They buy VoIP services, likely using stolen credit and debit card details. They may have thousands of accounts in many locations, including here.
They then route calls in reasonable looking volumes through each, so they don’t necessarily get caught by any simple filters and the VoIP companies don’t know it’s not legitimate traffic.
What they could do though is block calls originating from outside Ireland displaying a +353 Caller ID or at least strip the caller ID off it. If the call came up as INVALID ID, you might not answer it.
If when on holiday I try to use my VOIP calling my call would be shown as 'invalid'?
or ....... someone using a VOIP service based outside Ireland would have their calls 'marked' as invalid in place of their genuine number even when calling from within Ireland?0 -
Only if you set your caller ID to fake an Irish landline or mobile number.
If you’re using an Irish or Irish licence holding VoIP service while abroad, it’s a completely legitimate user of Irish caller IDs & most likely has a soft switch & gateway into the public networks here. That’s not an issue.
They’re going to have to sort this out though, as it’s just not acceptable to have random people being able to pose as any phone number.
A VoIP service should be restricted to using caller ID in blocks of numbers that it owns, or numbers that have been ported to it. If they present any other number, the caller ID at the very least should be stripped out.
If some random international VoIP service decided to use your Caller ID, it shouldn’t be possible.
As it stands now, if someone had access to a VoIP service like that and knew your mobile number, they could make calls that for all intents and purposes appear to be from you.
Absolutely no overseas VoIP service should be presenting Irish mobile numbers for example.
No non Irish licensed VoIP service should be presenting Irish phone numbers either.
That’s a ridiculously insecure system0 -
FuzzyThinking wrote: »Only if you set your caller ID to fake an Irish landline or mobile number.
From what is described above it would also affect genuine numbers.They’re going to have to sort this out as it’s just not acceptable to have random people being able to pose as any phone number.
Yes something needs to be done, but not something that is going to negatively affect genuine users.A VoIP service should be restricted to using caller ID in blocs that it owns. If they present any other number, the caller ID at the very least should be blocked.
The VOIP service does not own my number.
I have a choice of using whatever VOIP service I wish, in any country in the world, and it is I who has control of the number used as Caller ID. This is as it should be.
What could be done is that all operators connecting to Irish numbers (even from within Ireland) could be required to authenticate the caller ID before it can be used.
If this was done, with a total ban on the service if they fail to do so, then rogue operators could be eliminated from calling Irish numbers.
That might initially affect a small number of genuine users of a rogue service, but as often happens with other services, a list of banned services/operators is easily published to warn genuine customers before they sign up for the service.
Kill off the rogue operators. Do not negatively affect the customers.
EDIT:Absolutely no overseas VoIP service should be presenting Irish mobile numbers for example.
No non Irish licensed VoIP service should be presenting Irish phone numbers either.
That’s a ridiculously insecure system
It is the above that is ridiculous!0 -
You should not be able to set your caller ID to a number you do not own (have rights to use).
VoIP companies rent blocs of numbers which are licensed though regulators like ComReg, or they lease number ranges from larger telcos who hold those licences.
If they are allowing users to just set their caller ID to anything at all, that should be a flat breech of terms of use and they should lose the ability to present any numbers at all. Just delete the caller ID field in the signalling.
A telco who has no Irish number ranges or licence here has no business presenting +353 numbers and nobody other than an Irish mobile operator should be presenting Irish mobile numbers. They cannot possibly own them or have rights to use them.
You do not own any of your numbers. They assigned by a regulator to a telco that has a licence to use them.
There’s no legitimate use case scenario where you should be able to display your outgoing caller ID as absolutely anything you like and inbound calls from telcos that have no licence here but are displaying +353 should not be allowed to send that caller ID.
As it stands you could display your phone number as absolutely anything from a random number, to a private landline or mobile belonging to someone else, to an emergency service or state service in a country you’ve nothing to do with.
I mean why do you think you should have the right to display my mobile number or the French Revenue Commissioners?
Presenting someone else’s phone number is identify theft. There’s no other way of explaining it.
It is a ludicrous mess that is facilitating widespread fraud and rendering caller ID totally untrustworthy.
I would also add that most VoIP services, at least responsibly operated ones, do not allow you to set your caller ID to numbers that you do not have rights to use. You typically can only pick from your list of numbers, not just enter any string of digits as your outbound ID.
There is massive fraud going on, worth millions of $/€ and it is being in large part facilitated by the ability to present entirely spoofed numbers. The system has to be made much more secure.
If the telcos and regulators don’t tackle it, more people will simply give up on PSTN and mobile services and migrate to “over the top” VoIP services linked to IM - WhatsApp, FaceTime, Telegram, Signal etc all already have a large % of the market. They offer far more security, verify that an inbound call is who it claims to brand can easily block spam.
Failure to tackle this will simply mean the voice telephone network will be as useless as spammy email services & that will just mean a whole load more abandoned services & lack of revenue for telcos.0 -
From end of June 2021, just gone, both the US FCC and Canadian equivalent (CRTC) require telecom providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN on the IP portions of their networks.
This requires additional information to be added to the VOIP call, which can be used by upstream systems to decide whether or not to trust the Caller ID.
see the following
URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN[/URL and
URL="https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication"]https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication[/URL
URL="http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html"]http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html[/URL
"The STIR/SHAKEN framework, an industry-standard caller ID authentication technology, is a set of technical standards and protocols that allow for the authentication and verification of caller ID information for calls carried over Internet Protocol (IP) networks"
"FCC rules require providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN in the Internet Protocol (IP) portions of their networks by June 30, 2021, so that Americans can benefit from this important technology and start to have faith in their phone calls again"
From the third link above it doesn't look like this, or an equivalent, is being implemented in the EU or Ireland just yet, but is being looked at!
I've seen a definite rise is these nuisance calls in the past couple of months (international number that ring once / Dept of Social Protection / calls from 087 & 086 numbers / etc.). It's possible some of this may be due to the US 'market' becoming more difficult to reach!
It's one thing that these calls are annoying, and a nuisance to people who don't fall for their spiel.
However if it's worth setting up call centres to do this on an industrial scale then it must mean that
a percentage of people (some probably elderly) are being scammed out of cash,
with the potential to affect not just their purse, but also their sense of security, and even their mental health.
(as someone mentioned already, check out 'Jim Browning' on youtube)
It doesn't seem like Comreg can do anything by themselves, as any solution needs to be implemented by the telecom operators.
However emailing Comreg might encourage them to put some pressure on those who can do something to help.
Emailing our local politicians to highlight the problem might also help to put some pressure where it's needed at an EU level!0 -
It's not true that's its not possible to shut them down. It's just hard and too many vested interests don't want to.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-so-many-spam-robocalls-how-to-stop-them-2021-3
"..."When India and Pakistan shut down, you saw an instant decline in robocalls," ...."
They are spam calls made by companies, the call people are getting are scam calls made by fraudsters.
There is currently no way to stop fraudsters as places like Russia where many originate will not cooperate0 -
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You are thinking of the way it was done years ago.FuzzyThinking wrote: »They need to target them at EU or even ITU level.
The calls aren’t likely to be coming in through any of the traditional telcos. They’re likely coming in on small VoIP carriers.
You can buy numbers almost anywhere in the world on those services. It’ll have to be regulated a lot better at international level.
These days they simply insert software that tricks the system into displaying a totally random local phone number.
That number could be your number.
There is no VoIP company to look for. These are fraudsters that have huge funds to stay ahead of authorities.0 -
PintOfView wrote: »From end of June 2021, just gone, both the US FCC and Canadian equivalent (CRTC) require telecom providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN on the IP portions of their networks.
This requires additional information to be added to the VOIP call, which can be used by upstream systems to decide whether or not to trust the Caller ID.
see the following
URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN[/URL and
URL="https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication"]https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication[/URL
URL="http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html"]http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html[/URL
"The STIR/SHAKEN framework, an industry-standard caller ID authentication technology, is a set of technical standards and protocols that allow for the authentication and verification of caller ID information for calls carried over Internet Protocol (IP) networks"
"FCC rules require providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN in the Internet Protocol (IP) portions of their networks by June 30, 2021, so that Americans can benefit from this important technology and start to have faith in their phone calls again"
From the third link above it doesn't look like this, or an equivalent, is being implemented in the EU or Ireland just yet, but is being looked at!
I've seen a definite rise is these nuisance calls in the past couple of months (international number that ring once / Dept of Social Protection / calls from 087 & 086 numbers / etc.). It's possible some of this may be due to the US 'market' becoming more difficult to reach!
It's one thing that these calls are annoying, and a nuisance to people who don't fall for their spiel.
However if it's worth setting up call centres to do this on an industrial scale then it must mean that
a percentage of people (some probably elderly) are being scammed out of cash,
with the potential to affect not just their purse, but also their sense of security, and even their mental health.
(as someone mentioned already, check out 'Jim Browning' on youtube)
It doesn't seem like Comreg can do anything by themselves, as any solution needs to be implemented by the telecom operators.
However emailing Comreg might encourage them to put some pressure on those who can do something to help.
Emailing our local politicians to highlight the problem might also help to put some pressure where it's needed at an EU level!
The US were one of the culprits in allowing fake caller ID scams and calls to take hold.
I used to work for a company with offices here and in the US. I had the same phone systems put into both locations and we used SIP trunks at both ends to carry external calls to the local phone provider rather than traditional analogue or ISDN/T1.
A PBX lets you set whatever phone number you liked as the outbound caller ID for every extension - a +1, +353, or 999, 911, etc. and this was then sent to the local provider when you made a call. Of course, the intention was you would set caller IDs that were valid and that the provider would have traditionally verified the caller ID for your physical ISDN/T1 line.
With SIP, there is no physical line as such since it's entirely internet based, so caller ID matching is vital.
With SIP, in the Dublin office, unless the number I set was assigned to our SIP trunk, the call was instantly rejected by our provider. All good. Same as ISDN before it.
In the US office, an invalid caller ID set still let the call go straight through unhindered. It was ridiculous. And while I'll admit we had some great laughs within the office ringing colleagues with funny caller ID's set, we could have very easily used that for nefarious purposes.0 -
They are spam calls made by companies, the call people are getting are scam calls made by fraudsters.
There is currently no way to stop fraudsters as places like Russia where many originate will not cooperate
Yes but they can target the gateways that these come through. They can target legitimate business that use those gateways. They can pattern match these calls, and they aren't all in Russia. They are in India and such places and they aren't untouchable there.
Ultimately there will be some form of register set up for numbers or ips and people and companies will be able to opt in or out and you'll be able to block people from it.
Even on mobile you download a dialer app that has database of numbers and tell you what a number is that's not in your contacts. But these are opt in systems.
Because the traditional telecos are not trying to do anything about this, people will shift to other systems that do.
There can be no genuine company that's making calls in the volume that scammers do. Where they join the network where ever this is in the world, this pattern has to be identifiable.0 -
PintOfView wrote: »From end of June 2021, just gone, both the US FCC and Canadian equivalent (CRTC) require telecom providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN on the IP portions of their networks.
This requires additional information to be added to the VOIP call, which can be used by upstream systems to decide whether or not to trust the Caller ID.
see the following
URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN[/URL and
URL="https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication"]https://www.fcc.gov/call-authentication[/URL
URL="http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html"]http://apps.cept.org/eccnews/may-2020/stir_shaken.html[/URL
"The STIR/SHAKEN framework, an industry-standard caller ID authentication technology, is a set of technical standards and protocols that allow for the authentication and verification of caller ID information for calls carried over Internet Protocol (IP) networks"
"FCC rules require providers to implement STIR/SHAKEN in the Internet Protocol (IP) portions of their networks by June 30, 2021, so that Americans can benefit from this important technology and start to have faith in their phone calls again"
From the third link above it doesn't look like this, or an equivalent, is being implemented in the EU or Ireland just yet, but is being looked at!
I've seen a definite rise is these nuisance calls in the past couple of months (international number that ring once / Dept of Social Protection / calls from 087 & 086 numbers / etc.). It's possible some of this may be due to the US 'market' becoming more difficult to reach!
It's one thing that these calls are annoying, and a nuisance to people who don't fall for their spiel.
However if it's worth setting up call centres to do this on an industrial scale then it must mean that
a percentage of people (some probably elderly) are being scammed out of cash,
with the potential to affect not just their purse, but also their sense of security, and even their mental health.
(as someone mentioned already, check out 'Jim Browning' on youtube)
It doesn't seem like Comreg can do anything by themselves, as any solution needs to be implemented by the telecom operators.
However emailing Comreg might encourage them to put some pressure on those who can do something to help.
Emailing our local politicians to highlight the problem might also help to put some pressure where it's needed at an EU level!
One issue with this is that they are targeting mostly English speaking countries. Many EU countries do not have the problem as fraud calls aren’t being made in Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Dutch, Polish, Czech Etc in anything like the same volumes.
We’ve exactly the same problem as the US, Canada, U.K., Australia, NZ etc
France may be getting some, but I’m not aware of it being a big issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if Spain gets some due to the scale of the Spanish speaking market globally, and maybe Portugal due to Brazil being very large, but beyond that it’d not nearly as easy to commit this kind of fraud without very good language skills.
So if it’s only hitting Ireland, I’m not sure this is going to get taken seriously by the EU.
The US move to require authentication of IP traffic into the phone networks may prove the factor that drives change.
The copper landline network here will also be 100% IP based by the end of 2023. Much of the core of it already is. OpenEir are in the middle of a project to remove the local exchanges and replace them with Nokia MSANs and softswitch technology. They seem to be prioritising areas served by Alcatel E10 switches and then moving to decommissioning the hardware in areas served by Ericsson AXE.
If you’re using VoIP based landlines - plugged into a router on Virgin, Eir, Vodafone or Digiweb etc you already are on modern technology and the mobile networks all use modern IMS based voice.
So really there are no excuses for not being able to do this. The old tech won’t exist fairly soon.
Details:
https://www.g4s.com/en-ie/-/media/g4s/unitedkingdom/files/roi_pstn_switchover_presentation__final.ashx?la=en&hash=A93A712AFD337B849D761659636BD2610 -
Yes but they can target the gateways that these come through. They can target legitimate business that use those gateways. They can pattern match these calls, and they aren't all in Russia. They are in India and such places and they aren't untouchable there.
.
What they’re doing is using thousands and thousands of what look like legitimate VoIP accounts across large numbers of networks. These are often purchased using stolen credit/debit card details and fraudulent information that they’ve obtained in scams.
They then route their traffic randomly through many services, none of them get sufficient volumes or patterns of calls to raise alarms, or if they do the accounts are closed and new ones are created.
Ensuring all VoIP providers have more secure registration and payment would help enormously. So is the banks moving to secure cards will help, but this is an area where the EU is way ahead of the US with the PSD2 rules that have tightened up a card practices, with two factor authentication etc being compulsory for online transactions. US banks have always dragged their feet on this stuff.
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle but if the industry just passively allows it to keep happening, the reality is they’ll lose huge amounts of business as people will start moving away from using traditional phone services on landlines or mobiles and onto WhatsApp, FaceTime etc.
The telcos have already managed to lose the entire SMS business. IPTV and cable TV seems to be going rapidly to big players like Netflix, Amazon, Apple & Disney.
It seems the telcos are going to follow that by a total loss of voice traffic and become just “dumb pipe” ISPs that don’t really provide any applications / services themselves.
Once you’ve ubiquitous 4G and 5G, voice calls don’t need the telco.0 -
FuzzyThinking wrote: »What they’re doing is using thousands and thousands of what look like legitimate VoIP accounts across large numbers of networks. These are often purchased using stolen credit/debit card details and fraudulent information that they’ve obtained in scams.
They then route their traffic randomly through many services, none of them get sufficient volumes or patterns of calls to raise alarms, or if they do the accounts are closed and new ones are created.
Ensuring all VoIP providers have more secure registration and payment would help enormously. So is the banks moving to secure cards will help, but this is an area where the EU is way ahead of the US with the PSD2 rules that have tightened up a card practices, with two factor authentication etc being compulsory for online transactions. US banks have always dragged their feet on this stuff.
There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle but if the industry just passively allows it to keep happening, the reality is they’ll lose huge amounts of business as people will start moving away from using traditional phone services on landlines or mobiles and onto WhatsApp, FaceTime etc.
The telcos have already managed to lose the entire SMS business. IPTV and cable TV seems to be going rapidly to big players like Netflix, Amazon, Apple & Disney.
It seems the telcos are going to follow that by a total loss of voice traffic and become just “dumb pipe” ISPs that don’t really provide any applications / services themselves.
Once you’ve ubiquitous 4G and 5G, voice calls don’t need the telco.
While I agree with most of that. I don't agree that you can't find them.0 -
While I agree with most of that. I don't agree that you can't find them.
Finding them isn’t the aim. Making their ability to operate much less feasible is the only way forward.
1. Secure the telecoms infrastructure.
2. Compel the banks to make credit card fraud much more difficult. It reduces the scale of the honeypot.
The US has gone further on 1. The EU has gone much further on 2.
Governments also need to move beyond relying on simple ID numbers like PPSN. This data will inevitably get stolen. It’s got to be made useless.
At the very least PPSN should be disposable in the event of ID theft. The idea that a single ID number is linked to you for life is ludicrous in 2021.
Use of DOB or other items like that should be entirely avoided too.
The tech is there to secure many things much better.0 -
FuzzyThinking wrote: »Finding them isn’t the aim. Making their ability to operate much less feasible is the only way forward.
1. Secure the telecoms infrastructure.
2. Compel the banks to make credit card fraud much more difficult. It reduces the scale of the honeypot.
The US has gone further on 1. The EU has gone much further on 2.
Governments also need to move beyond relying on simple ID numbers like PPSN. This data will inevitably get stolen. It’s got to be made useless.
At the very least PPSN should be disposable in the event of ID theft. The idea that a single ID number is linked to you for life is ludicrous in 2021.
Use of DOB or other items like that should be entirely avoided too.
The tech is there to secure many things much better.
Finding them is only about finding how they work so you can counter it.
Ppsn is simply an ID that coordinates related govt services. Not having it makes it much harder to coordinate services. Ppsn fraud is really only a problem for the state. I'm not sure how it could it be used against the individual.
It should be able to be changed. But how would you propagate that change across govt services if they all used a different number.0 -
FuzzyThinking wrote: »You should not be able to set your caller ID to a number you do not own (have rights to use).
Glad you agree.VoIP companies rent blocs of numbers which are licensed though regulators like ComReg, or they lease number ranges from larger telcos who hold those licences.
If they are allowing users to just set their caller ID to anything at all, that should be a flat breech of terms of use and they should lose the ability to present any numbers at all. Just delete the caller ID field in the signalling.
Glad you agree with me on that also.A telco who has no Irish number ranges or licence here has no business presenting +353 numbers and nobody other than an Irish mobile operator should be presenting Irish mobile numbers. They cannot possibly own them or have rights to use them.
I guess it depends on what you mean by telco.
I have referred to service providers in what I wrote ...... those providing the VOIP service to me, the customer.
Of course they can be located in any part of the world and any attempt to limit that is nonsensical.You do not own any of your numbers. They assigned by a regulator to a telco that has a licence to use them.
Mmnnnn ..... see the first sentence I quoted above!There’s no legitimate use case scenario where you should be able to display your outgoing caller ID as absolutely anything you like
No one posted that this should be allowed.and inbound calls from telcos that have no licence here but are displaying +353 should not be allowed to send that caller ID.
As it stands you could display your phone number as absolutely anything from a random number, to a private landline or mobile belonging to someone else, to an emergency service or state service in a country you’ve nothing to do with.
I mean why do you think you should have the right to display my mobile number or the French Revenue Commissioners?
I do not think so and never implied or stated I do, so I have no idea what you are on about.Presenting someone else’s phone number is identify theft. There’s no other way of explaining it.
It is a ludicrous mess that is facilitating widespread fraud and rendering caller ID totally untrustworthy.
I would also add that most VoIP services, at least responsibly operated ones, do not allow you to set your caller ID to numbers that you do not have rights to use. You typically can only pick from your list of numbers, not just enter any string of digits as your outbound ID.
There is massive fraud going on, worth millions of $/€ and it is being in large part facilitated by the ability to present entirely spoofed numbers. The system has to be made much more secure.
If the telcos and regulators don’t tackle it, more people will simply give up on PSTN and mobile services and migrate to “over the top” VoIP services linked to IM - WhatsApp, FaceTime, Telegram, Signal etc all already have a large % of the market. They offer far more security, verify that an inbound call is who it claims to brand can easily block spam.
Failure to tackle this will simply mean the voice telephone network will be as useless as spammy email services & that will just mean a whole load more abandoned services & lack of revenue for telcos.
As I already posted, and you seem to ignore ...... it is possible, and in my mind desireable, to block providers who allow such bad practices as setting any number as caller ID.
Providers should be forced to confirm ownership of any number they allow for caller ID.
My main provider does, and I have a list of numbers (landline & mobiles) from which I can set the caller ID. Each number has been verified by the VOIP provider. That provider is not within the state.
If you had your way apparently I would be confined to using providers within the state ....... and most of us know what a rip off can happen when companies have near monopolies ..... yes eir I am thinking of you and your call charges!
So simply ensuring that providers confirm the numbers for caller ID are in the control of their customers should be sufficient. This should be done regularly to ensure lapsed numbers are deleted and old caller ID number approval does not interfere with future users.
Those providers who do not comply should be blacklisted and prevented from accessing any Irish telecom system.0 -
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You’d be confined to using operators who have rights to use numbers. If you don’t have rights to use the numbers, you shouldn’t be presenting them.
My point was that at present, Irish mobile operators are the only networks, or service providers, that are authorised to use +353 8X mobile numbers.
It should be extremely simple to just block caller ID being passed by anyone presenting those numbers, who isn’t one of the Irish MNOs or MVNOs
Landline numbers and non-geographic are a different issue.
Also the situation in the USA is different where there’s no distinction at all between landline and mobile numbers, which makes things very complex as you could have any given geographic number assigned to mobile, VoIP or traditional landline providers.
The Irish networks also already use an instantaneous database look up approach to number portability.
When you dial an Irish phone number, the switch or IN element of the network (mobile or fixed) consults a shared database to see on which network that number is located and who to send the call to.
There’s no reason why the networks couldn’t use something like an extension of that as an authentication filter.
1. Call comes in it has to enter at some point though an interconnection node, which is going to be a sophisticated soft switch in any of the modern networks.
2. Caller ID presented is looked up.
3. If the caller ID doesn’t match the expected origin network / service provider , flag it / remove it.
It doesn’t have to block the call, just delete the caller display.0
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