United Rugby Championship announced, beginning September 2021

Ciaran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014168#Comment_119014168

If the team in seventh is the Scotland/Italy pool winner, sixth misses out I believe. Same happens if the eighth team wins the Challenge Cup.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014259#Comment_119014259

yeah, i clarified that in the rest of the post.

Both Glasgow and Edinbutgh can qualify if one wins the challenge cup and the other tops the regional league.

the qualifying order is champions of URC, champions cup winners, challenge cup winners, regional winners, next in league not qualified.

Cookiemunster

Edinburgh/Glasgow aren't beating Leinster at the RDS, so it's not going to be an issue. Can't see either winning the Challenge Cup either. I'd expect both to be out after this weekend.

Dubinusa

It's rather poor that Scalets or another Welch region could qualify based on Wales having to get a region involved in the champions cup. I think that's what's happening this season?

This. If it happens is what's wrong with our domestic league. What happens if down the line 3 provinces qualify, 3 bok sides. Benetton and a Scottish side?

Merit is important! The regions have the easiest schedule! They play each other twice and our provinces once. They play the bok sides once also. Look at Zebre! They are fecked from the start. Although, with the quality coming through the Italy u20's. I reckon they're going to improve.

Why add a poorly performing side to a competition They were gifted and probably didn't deserve?

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014879#Comment_119014879

It's a compromise for two seasons. It'll be gone for the 2023/24 season.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014892#Comment_119014892

Good! Merit is vital for the league. Not bargaining and letting under performing teams in just because of their geographical position.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008066#Comment_119008066

The analysis after the first two SA teams (Cheetahs/Kings) joined showed their addition was worth approx €600k per year extra to each of the Irish teams in funding.

I haven't seen any done recently since it was rejigged and upped to four SA teams, but given its now 4 teams instead of 2, and its 4 much better supported teams, its got to be a multiple of that. Presumably at least €1mn in funding per year.

Clegg

The Times reports that the WRU plans to cut the number of professional regions from 4 to 3. This has been proposed before and was scrapped after massive backlash. But Welsh rugby is in such a bad way currently that I wonder will there be as much protest this time round.

https://twitter.com/Steffan_Thomas1/status/1521899738165043203?t=88JqS9QC1kEch0QmZ8nDUA&s=09

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015315#Comment_119015315

I wanted to know how the URC is generating funds for the SA teams, relative to their previous involvement in SR. All I've seen is that the SRU turned a profit in 2021 (R9m or eur550k), however a lot of that was surely TV rights from the Lions tour. Once they establish revenues from the RCC, is it viable that they'll slow down the migration of their top players to Europe or Japan?

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014879#Comment_119014879

But it's the European Cup. You wouldn't kick Namibia and Uruguay out of the World Cup and replace them with Ireland Wolfhounds and England 'A', would you?

Thrashssacre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119015976#Comment_119015976

Cutting a team and still paying the existing three the same as there cutting there spend in the region's from 22 million to 18, they say themself in the article Scotland are putting 20 million into their two and Ireland between 50-60 million for our 4 so by their own admission this won't even help them become anymore competition, how badly run is the WRU all the while this is going on their building bloody hotels.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119016076#Comment_119016076

Merit! Merit and merit!

Dubinusa

That's nuts! They cut a region and the URC is lopsided! Bring back the Cheetahs!

WRU are a joke. Assclowns!

Downlinz

For a country with a similar population to the province of Leinster it's pretty amazing they've managed to juggle 4 professional teams this long.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017382#Comment_119017382

Yet they have bigger income then the IRFU

PMC83

Better off cutting down to three pro teams and spending the extra cash on keeping their big names at home. Rees Zammit and Bigger would make a big difference to one of the regions.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119018164#Comment_119018164

They won't have any extra cash.

lawrencesummers

By by dragons.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119018174#Comment_119018174

soz just read the above!

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017382#Comment_119017382

Wales population will reach 3,267,500 by July of this year. I would imagine that their playing pool will be similar to Ireland's as GAA activities remove a huge section of sportspersons, real and potential, from the rugby population. Wales are unencumbered by this. Leinster does have a significant % of the island though. About 38% - 2.650,000 out of 6,953,000 (5,039,003 plus 1,914,232)

Dubinusa

Isn't rugby the national sport in Wales?

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119020405#Comment_119020405

No misunderstood, moaning about rugby is the national sport

pickarooney

The north of Wales doesn't really register as a rugby area.

Burkie1203

Ouch

https://twitter.com/RonSwanson145/status/1524805319657938947?t=fD_qIarOGXxTF7HzT5dk2g&s=19

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119021942#Comment_119021942

Because it isnt. Colwyn Bay, Wrexham, Bangor, Newtown all soccer areas and you also are closer to Liverpool and Manchester than the rugby areas of Wales. Its all the very south that is totally rugby focused

tvpc

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/lions-ceo-rudolf-straeuli-on-vincent-tshituka-move-this-is-going-to-get-ugly-3777985e-1686-4a0b-8660-b5713c11363b

Lions uphappy

Dubinusa

Massive weekend this week! Edinburgh v Glasgow will be some contest. Ulster v Sharks is massive also. The standings right now means that Ulster need a win. A home qf at Ravenhill would be great. The winning Scottish side come to the rds?

It's strange to think that Leinster v Munster is not the biggest fixture, imo.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070189#Comment_119070189

The losing Scottish side will travel to play Leinster. The winner will play whoever finishes second.

tvpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdORTVc5MLw&ab_channel=TheRugbyPod

Jackman states Leinster now have the biggest Salary in world rugby. I was very surprised, I did not know about the French salary cap. Do people think we should have a salary cap in the URC? The Sharks are already building a superstar squad, what if the bulls and stormers do the same and out spent everyone.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119079526#Comment_119079526

Do people think we should have a salary cap in the URC

that would be so incredibly difficult to plan, monitor, aggregate and essentially agree on, that it would be an impossibility

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119079526#Comment_119079526

I don't know if Jackman is correct, but even if it's not thee most expensive squad in world rugby it's certainly going to be up there in the top few. When you look at the squad, this can not be surprising.

If the Bulls and Stormers come in and outspend everyone we'll just have to suck it up, like the other clubs have sucked it up for years with us.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119079686#Comment_119079686

And yet the Top 14 and Premiership can manage it, and even enforce one?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080181#Comment_119080181

Take a step back for one second and try to see if you notice any differences between the prem / top 14 and the URC?

Dubinusa

Is Leinster responsible for for the centrally contracted players? I thought the IRFU paid them? Without these players, Leinster wouldn't be close to the highest salary. Leinster do have a bigger squad as they field the most international players. Bern is barking out of his hole, imo.

It's terrible that Leinster produce so many players. They should distribute them to all corners of the world. Fuckin hell.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080207#Comment_119080207

One has 13 teams, one 14, and one 16? ;-) Joking aside, yes, it would be more complicated than a straight one-country league, but Celtic Rugby DAC/URC are already organising and running a competition across five countries, and managed to do so through COVID, so the difficulties aren't insurmountable and it's certainly do-able - and probably a good thing for rugby in the long run.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080716#Comment_119080716

There is 4 countries, different tax rates etc. So that alone makes it unworkable. Organising the competition and all that goes with that and starting it over covid was great and theyve done very well but thats very different to talking about salary caps and managing the issues withdoing that.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080716#Comment_119080716

you havent come close to hitting on the difficulties involved in trying to agree and / or enforce a salary cap across five different countries and three different currencies with wildly different costs of living, tax bands, financial regulations etc

and thats before you consider that in the URC you have owners who control multiple clubs, unlike prem / top 14.

so as i said, its so fraught with difficulty its practically impossible.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080716#Comment_119080716

The Prem has 13 privately owned teams. The Top14 has 14 privately owned teams. The URC does not have 16 privately owned teams.

Wales had 1 union owed team and 3 privately run franchises (regions). Italy has 1 private team and one union owned team. SA has four franchises. Ireland and Scotland have fully union owned teams. The Irish teams salaries levels are extremely opaque thanks to central contracts and IRFU funding.

Not to mind the fact that there are 3 different currencies and 4 countries involved (two of each on this island alone).

The URC is in no way analogous to the Prem or the Top 14 when it comes to club finances or salary caps.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119080697#Comment_119080697

Leinster are the IRFU.

TaurenDruid

Tax rate is irrelevant (that's the players' problem). Currency is irrelevant (you use the FX rate on a particular day, update annually). You can probably administer through the five unions (which already have central contracts and/or license the franchises).

Cost of living is absolutely a consideration - but it's one unions, clubs and players (and their agents) already tackle when they're deciding who to sign and how much they're going to offer them to sign. You'd need to account for Dublin being one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, while your average Munster contract would get you a hell of a lot more bang for your buck in Western Cape.

Would it be easy to implement and enforce? It'd take some work, sure. Would it be possible? Absolutely, yes. Would it be good for rugby in the long run? Probably, if it avoids teams going bust and made for an overall stronger URC.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081035#Comment_119081035

So tax isnt an issue for teams(they are businesses....)? exchange rate is definitely an issue.

How many compeittions in what sports operate salary caps across multiple countries with different currencies etc. How are you so sure its so possible.

pickarooney

What effect would a URC salary cap have on South African teams? Their biggest problems are keeping players in the country on low wages and conversely finding enough playing time for a huge player base with only 4 professional teams.

What would it do for Welsh teams? They've no money as it is, a cap isn't going to help them. Their best players go to England (and occasionally France) as it is.

Scotland? Italy? It's hardly an issue for them.

So Ireland. Salary cap. Leinster have to lower wages or players will go... where? England with its lower salary cap? France with its 200 games a season? Apparently they all have lower wage budgets than Leinster now.

And players will give up their international ambitions? How low does the cap have to go before moving abroad makes financial sense? More likely players on the fringes will give up rugby and change careers.

I don't really see it. If Leinster and the other provinces were enticing superstar players from around the world on big contracts it would make sense but the majority of players are coming up through the ranks. Money is not the major factor.

sydthebeat

a salary cap is only useful to prevent teams from going broke.

when you have the rugby unions owning the teams, there is no need for a cap

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081132#Comment_119081132

Welsh sides have been operating under a salary cap for a while now. no? It might make them more competitive if other sides were forced to reduce their spending.

South Africa have pro teams in currie cup as well and so they can combine squads with pro14

tvpc

If The UEFA Financial Fair Play Regulations (FFP)  can work across different countries surly Rugby can do the same?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081368#Comment_119081368

Yeah like thats really well enforced and no club sold the naming rights to its training ground to its owner for an astronomical sum of money

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081368#Comment_119081368

QED

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081106#Comment_119081106

How are a salary cap (what a business can pay its players) and tax (what a business pays to the state on its profits, if any) related? Tax and a salary cap aren't related.

If URC brings in a salary cap to start on 1 September 2024, they can say on 2 Jan 2023 "the salary cap coming into effect for the 2024/2025 season will be €10,000,000 or the equivalent in local currency at today's exchange rates" and, oh, I dunno, each team's accountant can JFGI? Businesses deal with FX transactions every day. Major financial crisis or world event effects one of the three currencies disproportionately to the others? The URC board can adjust the cap.

Those bits are the easy bits.

Working out a fair system to cater for cost of living differences across five countries is the more difficult bit. I wonder if there'd be any consulting companies that could examine things like club accounts, existing contracts, cost of living indices, and other such publicly available information to arrive at fair comparable salary caps? 🤔

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081027#Comment_119081027

So! What's the fix? Do we force players to move to other provinces to even the salaries and talent?

I remember Munster supplied the bulk of our international team and there was not the same amount of complaining about Munster or the salaries of the Munster team

We are reverting back to the "let's punish Leinster" for producing more players than most teams and it's a tired argument. Suppose Munster had 10 centrally contracted players and a bigger salary output, would that be viewed in the same way as Leinsters recent success.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081491#Comment_119081491

You still havent named any competition that operates a salary cap across so many countries and so many currencies.

I shouldnt maybe have mentined taxes. The problem with different salaries is exchange rates can vary so much over a period so if you say it will be €10'000'000 on 1/1/23 for the 1/9/24 what you get for €10'000'000 could be very different which gives an unfair advantage.