United Rugby Championship announced, beginning September 2021

thomond2006

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But, what if we just .......................didnt, and stopped pandering to the derby stuff and just made it a league based on how good or bad teams are?

You would be burning a huge amount of revenue. It's not pandering, it's common sense. There are many people who will have little to no interest in the league but attend the derbies every season.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

You would be burning a huge amount of revenue. It's not pandering, it's common sense. There are many people who will have little to no interest in the league but attend the derbies every season.

Also, the Scots/Italians grouping aside, it just kind of makes sense. Home and Away against everyone is simply not an option so you have to split into groups/conferences somehow. At least there is a logic to this that people can easily understand.

Lost Ormond

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The format changes, adding the SA teams etc are done with a view to growing the league (making more money). At some point it needs to be a proper merit based competition . Otherwise, why bother? They may as well just dump any teams that dont bring big crowds, close it off and just let the 4 Irish teams play each other a few times, then pick 3 or 4 games against other teams that bring the crowds.

Personally, I'd lean towards the last format in my first post, a 2 division format with promotion and relegation.

At what point do you do that?
A 2 division format with promotion and relegation will just kill a lot of teams off and wont work
you say dump teams that dont bring big crowds. what do you see as big and how is that going to help the sport anyway?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The only reason promotion and relegation enters it is because of the amount of teams now involved.
IMO the best and fairest system is a league where everyone plays everyone else home and away. This stuff of play x number of teams home and away and play y teams once either home or away doesnt produce a fair league.

We're at the point where theres too many teams for a 1 league , everyone plays everyone H&A, so the only fair option , imo, is to go like England and have 2 divisions. Add 4 more teams and have 2 10 team leagues, 1 up and a playoff between 2nd bottom and 2nd place in the lower league.

The best and fairest system isnt a league where everyone plays everyone else home and away. Look at NFL. We cant go and act like england with multiple divisions with promotion and relegation because we have far more stakeholders with a lot more at stake if promotion/relegation was in place.

Red Silurian wrote: »

A better idea than promotion/relegation is to have separate tournaments, divide the league into the original 10 Celtic nations and 10 others encompassing the Italians, saffers and anybody else that wants to join them

We can meet teams from the other league in the champions or challenge cup

Not saying it's a good idea, but it's a better one than the promotion/relegation idea

That would never be viable and isnt going to happen.

Burkie1203

Red Silurian wrote: »

Last season was thrown together because of the pandemic... In fairness it's going to be tough on any team that gets a South African side in their H-Cup group to come back a week later and play again just due to travel

The format is being retained though IIRC for 21/22 anyway and probably beyond then too

icdg

Gerry Thornley saying (and quoting Leinster’s Mick Dawson on it) the IRFU voted against the Heineken Cup qualification rules and wanted full meritocracy instead.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/no-room-for-a-level-playing-field-in-rebranded-rugby-championship-1.4594374?mode=amp

Cookiemunster

icdg wrote: »

Gerry Thornley saying (and quoting Leinster’s Mick Dawson on it) the IRFU voted against the Heineken Cup qualification rules and wanted full meritocracy instead.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/no-room-for-a-level-playing-field-in-rebranded-rugby-championship-1.4594374?mode=amp

Well we'll be back to full meritocracy in two years then when the IRFU again vote against these qualification rules.

phog

icdg wrote: »

Gerry Thornley saying (and quoting Leinster’s Mick Dawson on it) the IRFU voted against the Heineken Cup qualification rules and wanted full meritocracy instead.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/no-room-for-a-level-playing-field-in-rebranded-rugby-championship-1.4594374?mode=amp

This is hardly rocket science, the Irish have had 2+ teams in the H/Cup since god knows when now we're in a position in the current format to maybe only have one and at a max two. As soon as the IRFU can change that they will.

bilston

phog wrote: »

This is hardly rocket science, the Irish have had 2+ teams in the H/Cup since god knows when now we're in a position in the current format to maybe only have one and at a max two. As soon as the IRFU can change that they will.

Maybe I misundstand the European qualification process, but could Ireland not have all 4 teams qualifying?

Its the winners of the four leagues within league and then the final 4 spots are based on overall league position?

Whether its likely all 4 teams would qualify given the strength of the South Africans is another matter of course.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

This is hardly rocket science, the Irish have had 2+ teams in the H/Cup since god knows when now we're in a position in the current format to maybe only have one and at a max two. As soon as the IRFU can change that they will.

If they couldn't prevent it this time, I'm not sure what would change in the interim.

Why do you say a max of two? Four is probably a stretch but three seems very doable.

sydthebeat

Four spots available between 12 teams.

You'd assume 3 boks, 3 Irish and maybe 1 Welsh or scallion team would be in the running for the wildcards.

Best time to meet the boks might be at the start of the competition if their national players are rested.

Jump_In_Jack

thomond2006 wrote: »

If they couldn't prevent it this time, I'm not sure what would change in the interim.

Why do you say a max of two? Four is probably a stretch but three seems very doable.

The Irish Times article basically phrases it like the IRFU will have the option to veto the new qualification system in 2 years time where the top regional teams qualify regardless of their league position and return to the top teams qualifying by league position only.

It's just a thought, but maybe this was a short-term sweetener for the Welsh/Scots/Italians during the negotiation period to admit the SA teams, to give them 2 years of automatic qualification to the H Cup, maybe to reduce their fears of the South African clubs coming in and taking all the spots, and maybe they wanted time to adjust to the level of the teams coming in

thomond2006

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The Irish Times article basically phrases it like the IRFU will have the option to veto the new qualification system in 2 years time where the top regional teams qualify regardless of their league position and return to the top teams qualifying by league position only.

It's just a thought, but maybe this was a short-term sweetener for the Welsh/Scots/Italians during the negotiation period to admit the SA teams, to give them 2 years of automatic qualification to the H Cup, maybe to reduce their fears of the South African clubs coming in and taking all the spots, and maybe they wanted time to adjust to the level of the teams coming in

If that's the case, that seems like a reasonable compromise.

phog

bilston wrote: »

Maybe I misundstand the European qualification process, but could Ireland not have all 4 teams qualifying?

Its the winners of the four leagues within league and then the final 4 spots are based on overall league position?

Whether its likely all 4 teams would qualify given the strength of the South Africans is another matter of course.

thomond2006 wrote: »

If they couldn't prevent it this time, I'm not sure what would change in the interim.

Why do you say a max of two? Four is probably a stretch but three seems very doable.

I just think the Irish will cancel each other out a bit within our own pool and give the 2nd Scottish and at least another SA team a chance to gain a lead an Irish province may not be able to catch.

The top pool winners will probably be Leinster, Scotish team, Welsh Team and a SA team - that leaves 3 Irish, 1 Welsh, 1 Scottish & 1 or 2 SA teams fighting it out for 4 places. While there are no clashes with international games will the non Irish team have the same constraints over resting players as the Irish do?

Former Former Former

The way the league is set up, it is highly likely that both the current qualifying system and a system based purely on league position would give you almost identical teams in Europe.

Thornley is like Chemical Ali to the IRFU's Saddam Hussein at this point.

FrannoFan

bilston wrote: »

Maybe I misundstand the European qualification process, but could Ireland not have all 4 teams qualifying?

Its the winners of the four leagues within league and then the final 4 spots are based on overall league position?

Whether its likely all 4 teams would qualify given the strength of the South Africans is another matter of course.

Top 6 will qualify into Europe for sure.
Hard to see 4 irish occupying the top 6 when we play each other more often in the conferences. Same for south african sides.

Jump_In_Jack

The most interesting point in that article for me was that more than 50 (including all derbies) of the 60 league matches involving the four Irish provinces plus all play-off matches involving the Irish provinces will be free-to-air!

Premier Sports will cover the rest as a pay-per-view broadcaster, and will mostly be Ulster away games.

BBCNI, RTE and TG4 are in advanced negotiations with announcements due in the next week or two.

Podge_irl

phog wrote: »

I just think the Irish will cancel each other out a bit within our own pool and give the 2nd Scottish and at least another SA team a chance to gain a lead an Irish province may not be able to catch.

The top pool winners will probably be Leinster, Scotish team, Welsh Team and a SA team - that leaves 3 Irish, 1 Welsh, 1 Scottish & 1 or 2 SA teams fighting it out for 4 places. While there are no clashes with international games will the non Irish team have the same constraints over resting players as the Irish do?

The Irish teams playing each other more in the Pro14 just gone didn't seem to give much help to the Scottish teams.

Ireland will easily have 2 teams consistently in Europe and regularly 3 I would suggest.

Jump_In_Jack

On the derbies, I think there is a good chance the IRFU will pragmatically recommend to the provinces to focus on winning the matches against good foreign opposition above winning their away Irish derbies.
So, if any player needed to be rested during the league the provinces will probably use an away Irish derby or a match against one of the weaker foreign sides as a chance to rest them rather than rest them against the South African sides or the better sides from Wales/Scot/Italy.
It makes sense from the IRFU's perspective, if all the teams try to win their home derbies, and go fully loaded against all the good foreign teams, it would maximise their chances of getting all the provinces to qualify.

Although, maybe the provinces will prefer to win the interpros for domestic bragging rights (and H Cup qualification spot as pool winner), so I don't know.
Maybe all the other sides will adopt a similar approach.
The reduced fixtures might mean fully loaded teams more often anyway.
Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Podge_irl

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Although, maybe the provinces will prefer to win the interpros for dometic bragging rights, so I don't know.

And the automatic European qualification?

Jump_In_Jack

Podge_irl wrote: »

And the automatic European qualification?

That's decided by overall league points, not just the interpro results, but you make a good point as it will place more importance on those results.
Hopefully that means fully loaded interpros then.

Podge_irl

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

That's decided by overall league points, not just the interpro results, but you make a good point as it will place more importance on those results.
Hopefully that means fully loaded interpros then.

The winner of the Irish division automatically qualifies for Europe. The rest will need to worry about their overall position vs the SA etc teams.

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

That's decided by overall league points, not just the interpro results, but you make a good point as it will place more importance on those results.
Hopefully that means fully loaded interpros then.

Given how much more competitive the league should be, the interpros should have a much bigger bearing on the group, as any small points differences in the Irish group will come down to interpro results for the top spot

Former Former Former

FrannoFan wrote: »

Top 6 will qualify into Europe for sure.
Hard to see 4 irish occupying the top 6 when we play each other more often in the conferences. Same for south african sides.

But this is exactly what happened this season.

Munster and Ulster did not lose a single game to a non-Irish team. The Leinster academy side got beaten by the Ospreys when qualification for the final was already assured, otherwise a 100% record. Connacht's W/L record in the interpros was exactly the same as it was against the non-Irish teams.

If next season plays out like the last one, we will have three Irish sides in Europe, possibly even four.

Relax everyone.

Jump_In_Jack

There was a one-liner thrown in about the derbies that is interesting also,
"The six rounds of derbies will not be run off at the start of the season, but rather will be mixed into the 18 round competition."
Will be interesting how these derbies are mixed in.

bennyl10

Former Former Former wrote: »

But this is exactly what happened this season.

Munster and Ulster did not lose a single game to a non-Irish team. The Leinster academy side got beaten by the Ospreys when qualification for the final was already assured, otherwise a 100% record. Connacht's W/L record in the interpros was exactly the same as it was against the non-Irish teams.

If next season plays out like the last one, we will have three Irish sides in Europe, possibly even four.

Relax everyone.

The issue is the springbok teams are a different beast to the Italians and Scottish

They wont be losing to Irish academy sides

Cookiemunster

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

There was a one-liner thrown in about the derbies that is interesting also,
"The six rounds of derbies will not be run off at the start of the season, but rather will be mixed into the 18 round competition."
Will be interesting how these derbies are mixed in.

We'll definitely have the usual derbies over Christmas and the new year as nobody wants to be traveling overseas then.

Former Former Former

bennyl10 wrote: »

The issue is the springbok teams are a different beast to the Italians and Scottish

They wont be losing to Irish academy sides

Good.

If the SA sides are a match for the Irish provinces (or better), then they will also demolish the other sides, just like Leinster, Ulster and Munster have been doing, so we will still end up with three Irish sides in Europe.

yerrahbah

Former Former Former wrote: »

But this is exactly what happened this season.

Munster and Ulster did not lose a single game to a non-Irish team. The Leinster academy side got beaten by the Ospreys when qualification for the final was already assured, otherwise a 100% record. Connacht's W/L record in the interpros was exactly the same as it was against the non-Irish teams.

If next season plays out like the last one, we will have three Irish sides in Europe, possibly even four.

Relax everyone.

I would say this season has been the exception rather than the rule.

Irish sides were greatly helped by the volume of test matches this season.

Irish sides have more € and therefore greater squad depth so were able to manage missing their internationals better than the likes of Scarlets or Edinburgh

Having URC matches not clash with test matches definitely helps level out the playing field in that regard

Red Silurian

Cookiemunster wrote: »

We'll definitely have the usual derbies over Christmas and the new year as nobody wants to be traveling overseas then.

They'll probably delay the South African derbies to around the time of the 6 Nations as the Christmas heat would be unbearable down there

VANG1

Overall should raise standards and give our teams more experience against bigger stronger packs. Definitely an improvement

Cookiemunster

Irish TV details released. 26 Irish games on RTE. TG4 get 26 Irish games plus another 16 non Irish games. Theyll rotate the grand final between them.
https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/news/urc-tg4-rte

Must love hardship

The United Rugby Championship will be shown on RTÉ and TG4 from next season.

52 of the 60 Irish fixtures every season for the next four years.

The URC and RTÉ will offer a domestic and international streaming option called URC TV, subject to contracts.

Must love hardship

With Rte getting back involved in rugby and showing a few 6 nations games who are we likely to have as analysts???

From the Eir coverage.
Tommy bowe is on tv3 breakfast show so he is out.
D'Arcy and stringer might be available.
Donocha o'callaghan is working for rte radio now so will surely make an appearance..
Would like to see more of Murray kinsella and Bernard Jackson.

Less of Daire o'brian.
With rte they will also have to fill a gender quota. Who's the beat Female analyst?

Any players retiring this year that could pop up?

PMC83

Must love hardship wrote: »

The United Rugby Championship will be shown on RTÉ and TG4 from next season.

52 of the 60 Irish fixtures every season for the next four years.

The URC and RTÉ will offer a domestic and international streaming option called URC TV, subject to contracts.

TBH this sounds Brilliant. Plenty of rugby on freeTV for all to see, and the extra games available via a streaming service

PMC83

Must love hardship wrote: »

With Rte getting back involved in rugby and showing a few 6 nations games who are we likely to have as analysts???

From the Eir coverage.
Tommy bowe is on tv3 breakfast show so he is out.
D'Arcy and stringer might be available.
Donocha o'callaghan is working for rte radio now so will surely make an appearance..
Would like to see more of Murray kinsella and Bernard Jackson.

Less of Daire o'brian.
With rte they will also have to fill a gender quota. Who's the beat Female analyst?

Any players retiring this year that could pop up?

Could we see Paulie? Only part time with Ireland.

Sheep Shagger

Guinness not involved in the new comp anyway, wonder who will pick up the naming sponsorship?

https://sportforbusiness.com/guinness-confirms-exit-from-pro14/

thomond2006

PMC83 wrote: »

Could we see Paulie? Only part time with Ireland.

I hope not, given the obvious conflict of interest.

Richie_Rich89

PMC83 wrote: »

Could we see Paulie? Only part time with Ireland.

I think he identifies as male.

sprucemoose

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hope not, given the obvious conflict of interest.

conor o shea was/is a regular pundit while working with England and Italy, dont see where the problem would be

thomond2006

sprucemoose wrote: »

conor o shea was/is a regular pundit while working with England and Italy, dont see where the problem would be

You want a current Ireland coach to comment on Irish players?

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

You want a current Ireland coach to comment on Irish players?

Indeed, it would be one thing to be covering internationals/non-Irish provincial games but absolute best case scenario is it being just horrendously boring as he will be so careful what he's saying.

sprucemoose

thomond2006 wrote: »

You want a current Ireland coach to comment on Irish players?

yes..........

im not saying its going to happen, but id see no problem with it. now im also sure if it were to happen then anything said would most likely be sanitised to not cause problems

Podge_irl wrote: »

best case scenario is it being just horrendously boring as he will be so careful what he's saying.

probably, but id see no problem in theory



brad fittler is coach of nsw state of origin and is one of the main pundits for channel 9 nrl coverage, its actually quite interesting to hear him speaking about players he has worked with or may work with in the future

sydthebeat

listening to "under the sticks" at the moment and some interesting pick ups

1. there will be a physical trophy for the winners of each individual pool (so muster might actually get to lift a trophy sometime)

2. they are looking at using players to share recordings through their social media to grow the game, a la NFL

bilston

sydthebeat wrote: »

listening to "under the sticks" at the moment and some interesting pick ups

1. there will be a physical trophy for the winners of each individual pool (so muster might actually get to lift a trophy sometime)

Was thinking earlier that there should be trophies for each individual league so I think that's a good idea. I think this could be particularly beneficial for the Welsh regions, but it will additonal bite to the Inter Pros as well.

Red Silurian

Must love hardship wrote: »

With Rte getting back involved in rugby and showing a few 6 nations games who are we likely to have as analysts???

From the Eir coverage.
Tommy bowe is on tv3 breakfast show so he is out.
D'Arcy and stringer might be available.
Donocha o'callaghan is working for rte radio now so will surely make an appearance..
Would like to see more of Murray kinsella and Bernard Jackson.

Less of Daire o'brian.
With rte they will also have to fill a gender quota. Who's the beat Female analyst?

Any players retiring this year that could pop up?

As long as they stop the Eir strategy of constantly talking over the ref I don't care who they have as analysts or commentators

Going back a few years TG4 used to just say the names of the players in posession, penalty (pinos) and Try (Úd) which was great!

Lost Ormond

bilston wrote: »

Was thinking earlier that there should be trophies for each individual league so I think that's a good idea. I think this could be particularly beneficial for the Welsh regions, but it will additonal bite to the Inter Pros as well.

Oh definitely. Irish Cup could call it 1946 cup like what edinburgh glasgow do for their games with it called 1872 cup.

Blut2

sydthebeat wrote: »

2. they are looking at using players to share recordings through their social media to grow the game, a la NFL

As in they plan on mic'ing up the players? That would be very cool. The NFL produces some gems like this each season from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4SEPufzG7s

It really gives you a bit more insight to what its like being out there on the field from their point of view.

sydthebeat

Blut2 wrote: »

As in they plan on mic'ing up the players? That would be very cool. The NFL produces some gems like this each season from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4SEPufzG7s

It really gives you a bit more insight to what its like being out there on the field from their point of view.

no.

what they meant was that essentially they will make the clip of say, Zebo, scoring a try available to him (rights wise) so that he can share on his SM.. obviously with URC logo etc

The mic'ed up is a great idea. Rob Kearney was micced up for one of his first Super Rugby games and although i dont think we could get it here through rugby pass, i think it was an option on stan sports
https://www.facebook.com/stansportau/videos/230309678792924

Cookiemunster

sydthebeat wrote: »

listening to "under the sticks" at the moment and some interesting pick ups

1. there will be a physical trophy for the winners of each individual pool (so muster might actually get to lift a trophy sometime)

2. they are looking at using players to share recordings through their social media to grow the game, a la NFL

I've seen guys like Three Red Kings on Twitter previously praising the Pro14 for allowing him to share clips and not slap take down notices on him like other leagues. If they've one thing going for them it's that they do seem to be way more social media savvy than other leagues and sporting organisations.

Cookiemunster

Blut2 wrote: »

As in they plan on mic'ing up the players? That would be very cool. The NFL produces some gems like this each season from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4SEPufzG7s

It really gives you a bit more insight to what its like being out there on the field from their point of view.

Sky used to mike up players. I can remember a few Munster players being miked up in games.