Wild boar released

Feisar

I shared a house with a lad back in the day that reckoned pork pork should be slightly under done. Done well vs well done was his thinking.

Bog Trotter99

Mellor wrote: »

If you like meat in general well done that’s your call.
But reason I ask is because a lot of people are under the impression that pork must be cooked well done due to the inherent nature of pork, similar to say chicken.
But as Grizzly pointed out, the reason for that impression is entirely due to the presence of the Trichinosis parasite. It’s that shows how widespread and serious it was to form a widespread view over decades.

So it really is very different to worms that beef or lamb may get. Rare beef is very common. Rare pork is not.

When I was younger it was pork that was the meat that gave problems and was made sure it was cooked. The chicken thing came a lot later. You are correct about the worms, but I think that was mainly sausages. Pork was never frozen either. It was bacon, sausage, ham and fresh pork. I cant remember my parents ever getting frozen pork from freezer.

Certain hams are just cured pork but possibly the long time they are cured kills any of those worms?

A pig has a very similar system to humans and I imagine everything that lives on a pig can live on us.

Also pork of some kind was the most commonly eaten meat because it was the cheapest and plentiful because pigs were kept for more than their meat back then and most farms had them.

I think all this was worms in general. People back then were more safety conscience about parasites because we got them where as today we rarely do.

Loads of info here.

https://www.thepigsite.com/news/2003/11/uk-may-have-to-increase-testing-for-nonexistent-parasite

https://www.food.gov.uk/research/meat-hygiene-research-programme/trichinella-in-uk-wildlife

https://patient.info/doctor/trichinellosis.htm

Mellor

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

When I was younger it was pork that was the meat that gave problems and was made sure it was cooked. The chicken thing came a lot later. You are correct about the worms, but I think that was mainly sausages. Pork was never frozen either. It was bacon, sausage, ham and fresh pork. I cant remember my parents ever getting frozen pork from freezer.

I don’t think there was ever a time when we thought it safe to eat chicken rare. Samonella is around a long time.
Freezing make no difference. Perfectly safe to freeze pork. The point was these notions of always cooking pork well were fully about the parasite.

I think all this was worms in general. People back then were more safety conscience about parasites because we got them where as today we rarely do.


https://www.thepigsite.com/news/2003/11/uk-may-have-to-increase-testing-for-nonexistent-parasite

https://www.food.gov.uk/research/meat-hygiene-research-programme/trichinella-in-uk-wildlife

https://patient.info/doctor/trichinellosis.htm

No it wasn’t worms in general. The issue with pigs is specific to trichinella, it lives in the flesh - as pointed out earlier by cookemonster. It's not a case of "sure all animals have worms, fish have worms etc" as you suggested earlier. I sure plenty of animals we eat can have worms, as can humans. There’s no issue with worms from beef, or other meats regularly eaten rare. To be clear, I'm talking only about conflating general worms with trichinella.

I fully agree that trichinellosis is in decline due to modern farming. As I alluded to above, I'm don't feel the need to cremate all my pork. For me it's purely best method for the cut based.

Bog Trotter99

Mellor wrote: »

I don’t think there was ever a time when we thought it safe to eat chicken rare. Samonella is around a long time.
Freezing make no difference. Perfectly safe to freeze pork. The point was these notions of always cooking pork well were fully about the parasite.


No it wasn’t worms in general. The issue with pigs is specific to trichinella, it lives in the flesh - as pointed out earlier by cookemonster. It's not a case of "sure all animals have worms, fish have worms etc" as you suggested earlier. I sure plenty of animals we eat can have worms, as can humans. There’s no issue with worms from beef, or other meats regularly eaten rare. To be clear, I'm talking only about conflating general worms with trichinella.

I fully agree that trichinellosis is in decline due to modern farming. As I alluded to above, I'm don't feel the need to cremate all my pork. For me it's purely best method for the cut based.

Regards chicken........I dont know how old you are but I can remember you couldn't eat it very often because it was far too expensive. It was a treat to have for Sunday dinner. Anything wrong with it was definitely not known about back then. A chicken in 1970 UK was a lot of money out of a £30.00 wage.

Pork we ate all the time. If you look at those links in the UK and NI there were no recorded traces of that particular parasite.

cookimonster

Ok I'm going to put my professional hat on here -

As a foot note - theres no 'I think' or 'Maybes' these are the professional guidelines that transfer over to good practice in domestic consumption and preparation.

Firstly as I have being saying all along (see references in my posts) and Mellor has pointed out this is NOT about worms but a specific meat, as in the edible flesh, infecting parasite found in Pigs (as well as other omnivores) that will infect humans.

Secoundly Pigs / Wild boar are tested for the food chain full stop - it happens.

Thirdly- is trichinella presently been found in domesticated pig herds ?- NO. Why - because of current practices and testing routines. Do we still need to test for it - YES to ensure continuing eradication of the threat.

Fourthly - Cooking

Prior to more advanced scientific testing the initial researchers (1800's) discovered that thorough cooking of the meat destroyed the parasite, so regardless whether the meat is infected or not proper cooking was the safe bet. Here lies the problem -

Various cuts or preparation of meat will cook to a degree of 'done-ness' at different core temperatures, ie a pork chop will cook nicely at a lower internal temp then a roast joint therefore the required temperature for the parasite to be destroyed may not of being reached in the pork chop. Bacon and Ham are cured forms of pork, studies have shown that curing will not nessacerraly destroy the parasite, so products that require no further cooking or in the case of rashers lesser degrees of cooking can still be infested. Hence the reason to ensure that the primary product- pork flesh is not infected at source.


Recent studies showed that most domestic cooks didn't cook sausages to the proper internal temperature required to render it safe to eat - there are a raft of viable food poisoning issues concerned with this. The current regulations are as followers -

Q. What temperature should I be cooking my food to?

The core temperature should reach 75°C instantaneously or equivalent, e.g. 70°C for two minutes. The core is taken as the centre or thickest part of the food.

FSAI

https://www.fsai.ie/faqs/temperature_control.html

The above applys to - poultry (chicken / turkey) sausages, mince products (any form of meat) , stuffed or rolled joints (any form of meat).

Foods that may be cooked to customer’s preference are fish, shellfish, whole joints, birds (game and duck), cuts/portions of lamb, beef or venison.

As I mentioned above, mince meat from any source (game, poultry, beef, pork, lamb) must be cooked through and have an enternal temp of 75°C instantaneously or equivalent, e.g. 70°C for two minutes. Gone are the days I could either order or serve burgers cooked rare. But funnily enough (backed up by a volume of food safety references) I may still offer Steak Tartare (a raw minced beef dish)

The recent practice (of some) for cooking pork under done (63-65C) has come about from the thought process that Trichinella has been brought under control, general meat processing practices and the scientific evidence that a parasite such as Trichinella will die off at internal temperatures of approximately 60C+/-. This assumes a great deal and requires a collective chain of events to be all good and proper and in practicality all the meat tissue must reach the internal temperature for a specific time value to ensure all the parasites are dead. So in practical means and to add in a degree of safety the higher temperatures are the best way to go.

To summarise- cook your pork, not cremate it to an internal temp of 75C that's all. The way you cook it will determine how succulent the meat is.

For rost pork / chicken - put it into an oven at 180C for 30 minutes, then turn it down to 150C and cook until 75C , rest 20-30 mins. Result- lovely browned meat / bird, succulent and juicy. If you want good crackling, score, rub with salt and allow to stand, brush off excess salt and cook as above - the salt extracts moisture, no moisture the fat will crisp.

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

If you like meat in general well done that’s your call.
But reason I ask is because a lot of people are under the impression that pork must be cooked well done due to the inherent nature of pork, similar to say chicken.
But as Grizzly pointed out, the reason for that impression is entirely due to the presence of the Trichinosis parasite. It’s that shows how widespread and serious it was to form a widespread view over decades.

So it really is very different to worms that beef or lamb may get. Rare beef is very common. Rare pork is not.


As above, I agree this was the reason. 100%.
However, if the pork was tested, and found to not have any parasites, then it doesn’t seem to apply imo.
I don’t know how many tests they do per year, and how often it is detected. Feels that relevant info.

Quite true...Even Gordon Ramsey was saying its an outdated view that pork must be well done these days.FIK,its every pig that comes into the food chain.It certainly is with WB.

As for rare beef.Cant get any rarer than raw steak tatare.Which is delicious, but needs to be shock frozen to kill off all parasites,and is even today risky with mad cow disease.I do like my steak "blue"ditto rare burger,but trying to get someone to cook such in a resturant is a problem,because of fear of litagation.So the idea of "undercooked pork" is going to be an even harder sell.

Bog Trotter99

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Quite true...Even Gordon Ramsey was saying its an outdated view that pork must be well done these days.FIK,its every pig that comes into the food chain.It certainly is with WB.

As for rare beef.Cant get any rarer than raw steak tatare.Which is delicious, but needs to be shock frozen to kill off all parasites,and is even today risky with mad cow disease.I do like my steak "blue"ditto rare burger,but trying to get someone to cook such in a resturant is a problem,because of fear of litagation.So the idea of "undercooked pork" is going to be an even harder sell.

To add to this. My folks always told me you had to be careful with pork because of worms and I think they were referring to the intestinal worms as I have said.

But regards Ramsey and others...........The pork today is different. It is a lean pork with very little fat. I should imagine wb may be same.

When we were kids pork was a fatty meat from different breeds of pigs who were also kept and fed differently. So you could cook your pork so it was well done and didnt dry up back then. We kept the run off fat in a cup to use to fry other food as there was no cooking oil and it wasnt regarded as unhealthy. So put some extra fat on it.

I wouldnt fancy Ramsey's pork now if I could eat it.

cookimonster

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Regards chicken........I dont know how old you are but I can remember you couldn't eat it very often because it was far too expensive. It was a treat to have for Sunday dinner. Anything wrong with it was definitely not known about back then. A chicken in 1970 UK was a lot of money out of a £30.00 wage.

I refer you to this -

MRS BEETON'S ALL ABOUT COOKERY
By Isabella Beeton Published 1861

Truss chicken for roasting, season lightly and cover with bacon. Roast on a trivet in the roasting tin in a fairly hot oven until tender, 1–1½ hr. Baste frequently. The chicken may be roasted on the breast for a little while at the beginning, this will make the breast-meat more moist. (Prick the thigh to test for tenderness—if there is any trace of blood the chicken is not cooked.) The bacon may be removed 10–15 min. before serving, to allow the breast to brown. When the chicken is cooked, place on a hot meat-dish, remove trussing string, and keep hot. Make the gravy : pour excess fat from roasting tin but retain sediment; pour in stock, boil 2–3 min. Season to taste, strain into a hot sauce-boat.

Have ready the watercress, washed, drained and lightly seasoned, garnish the chicken; serve with the gravy and bread sauce. See also Accompaniments.

'if there is any trace of blood the chicken is not cooked' ..... in 1861 they knew that if a chicken was under cooked it was an issue. The same people won't hesitate in cooking and serving other appropriate meats and birds underdone!

In 1988 I started my professional catering career well before the establishment of the FSAI and the mandatory use of probes etc and we still stuck to the basic rules if not applied in an analogue way. Science is verifiable proof of circumstances, our forefathers and mothers knew what they were about well before the science proved it. Domesticated chickens have for centuries now been cooked well done because of associated issues

Bog Trotter99

cookimonster wrote: »

I refer you to this -

MRS BEETON'S ALL ABOUT COOKERY
By Isabella Beeton Published 1861



'if there is any trace of blood the chicken is not cooked' ..... in 1861 they knew that if a chicken was under cooked it was an issue. The same people won't hesitate in cooking and serving other appropriate meats and birds underdone!

In 1988 I started my professional catering career well before the establishment of the FSAI and the mandatory use of probes etc and we still stuck to the basic rules if not applied in an analogue way. Science is verifiable proof of circumstances, our forefathers and mothers knew what they were about well before the science proved it. Domesticated chickens have for centuries now been cooked well done because of associated issues

Listen dad you do love to twist the things around a lot. What is your problem?

I never said or implied you ate raw chicken. The big 'salmonella' in chickens thing came about when a Tory minister called Edwina Curry highlighted the fact that it was in eggs. This began a whole flurry of skirmishes and extra testing and extra rules. Late 80's I think?

Before then the general public were just oblivious but obviously knew to cook their food properly. In fact we were told to cook all our meats properly. I can't remember people eating meat of any kind where the blood ran out back then.

As somebody who got food poisoning from chicken I can tell you it is certainly an experience and better not had.

Feisar

Mellor wrote: »

I agree with cooking by internal temp. But not a 95 across the board. Varies with cut for me.
95 would be absolutely perfect for a shoulder/butt with all that connective tissue to break down. But would over overcook a fillet/tenderloin.
I think the temp from a safety point of view is 65 degrees, but don’t quote me on that.

What way I like a steak depends on the cut. Fillet would be rare but a rib eye for example and I'd go medium. As you say ya need to give the fat a chance to render out.

Feisar

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Regards chicken........I dont know how old you are but I can remember you couldn't eat it very often because it was far too expensive. It was a treat to have for Sunday dinner. Anything wrong with it was definitely not known about back then. A chicken in 1970 UK was a lot of money out of a £30.00 wage.

There's something wrong with being able to buy a whole chicken for less than the price of a pint. A proper chicken these days should run you about €25.

Bog Trotter99

Feisar wrote: »

There's something wrong with being able to buy a whole chicken for less than the price of a pint. A proper chicken these days should run you about €25.

Correct I worked it out with the prices back in 1970 to now and wages. It should be over £19.00. But all food is too cheap and deliberately kept that way. Hence half the problems we have with our food.

Richard308

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Correct I worked it out with the prices back in 1970 to now and wages. It should be over £19.00. But all food is too cheap and deliberately kept that way. Hence half the problems we have with our food.

Well most of the chickens you see today in supermarkets are what are called broiler chickens. They take 4-7 weeks before ready to slaughter as opposed to other breeds 3-4 times longer. So divide your £19 by 3 to 4 you see where they can produce them so cheaply.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broiler

Bog Trotter99

Richard308 wrote: »

Well most of the chickens you see today in supermarkets are what are called broiler chickens. They take 4-7 weeks before ready to slaughter as opposed to other breeds 3-4 times longer. So divide your £19 by 3 to 4 you see where they can produce them so cheaply.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broiler

There is truth in that also. Since the 60's advances in chickens meant that they could be produced en-mass in huge sheds. Together with advances in food etc.

Almost the same as pigs. But were animals really meant to be kept this way just so you can have cheap food?

Another argument. But you see the less you pay for your grub, the more you have left to buy other consumables. So it is in a lot of interests to keep food 'produced' low priced. Notice 'produced'.

Richard308

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

There is truth in that also. Since the 60's advances in chickens meant that they could be produced en-mass in huge sheds. Together with advances in food etc.

Almost the same as pigs. But were animals really meant to be kept this way just so you can have cheap food?

Another argument. But you see the less you pay for your grub, the more you have left to buy other consumables. So it is in a lot of interests to keep food 'produced' low priced. Notice 'produced'.

Yeah it helps avoid poverty. I don’t think low food prices are necessarily a bad thing.

Mellor

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Regards chicken........I dont know how old you are but I can remember you couldn't eat it very often because it was far too expensive. It was a treat to have for Sunday dinner. Anything wrong with it was definitely not known about back then. A chicken in 1970 UK was a lot of money out of a £30.00 wage.

I’ll take your word for it that chicken was expensive, but I don’t see the relevance to cooking temp. When people bought it, they still cook it as we do today (and not because We cremated everything then).

Feisar wrote: »

What way I like a steak depends on the cut. Fillet would be rare but a rib eye for example and I'd go medium. As you say ya need to give the fat a chance to render out.

Exactly. Fillet is rare. Ribeye medium. And brisket, cheeks or similar are low and slow.
I treat pork the same, in the sense that my temps and times are cut specific.

Grizzly 45

Well that's the paradox of quantity Vs quality...Everyone wants "cheap quality".Which cant be achieved in any shape or form.
Everyone wants, say chicken and eggs, but is aghast on how their eggs and Sunday lunch is produced in factory farming. But doesn't want to pay 30 euros for a free-range mature bird or 10 euros for their eggs either.

What grinds my gears is the pure wastage of food we produce in the" much benevolent EU" and the US that is dumped because of some imperfection or because the sell-by date is out by a day from our supermarkets.

I used to pay little to nothing for my groceries in the US by a combination of "dumpster diving"for canned goods and divvying up between me and the Mexican cleaning crews that were in on my security shift every Friday evening from the staff fridges in the canteen when the fridges were emptied out I had usually 7 free tv dinners every week. This of course grossed out my American friends and relatives that I was eating "spoilt food"[by 72 hours on the packaging date].My response was simply you have it too good and have never known any sort of hunger,and that in some cases my German family,like countless thousands of others had lived off US army rubbish tips in post-war Germany in 1945 from discarded C rations.:eek:

I see the same attitude starting to emerge in Ireland nowadays as well.
Am I the only one here who remembers us buying" a pounds worth of broken biscuts" for the tea growing up?
That i think is one of our mortal sins of the Western world ,our sheer wastage of good food.

cookimonster

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Listen dad you do love to twist the things around a lot. What is your problem?

I'm not twisting things and I'm also not posting what 'I think', several times now there has been factual, quantifiable posts here on issues with parasite infestation of pork meat ie trichinella and yet you still come out with statements such-

My folks always told me you had to be careful with pork because of worms and I think they were referring to the intestinal worms as I have said.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I never said or implied you ate raw chicken. The big 'salmonella' in chickens thing came about when a Tory minister called Edwina Curry highlighted the fact that it was in eggs. This began a whole flurry of skirmishes and extra testing and extra rules. Late 80's I think?

Salmonella bacteria were first discovered by an American scientist named Dr. Daniel E. Salmon in 1885 and has been linked to chickens since the 1930s. Intensive farming and egg production has led to increased risks and effect on the general public. But in recent years there has been ever increasing outbreaks of salmonella in humans linked to 'back yard poultry'. Recent clamp down here in Ireland has seen back yard egg producers shut down due to risk of unregulated egg production. Edwina Curry certainly did not handle the situation well but the issues were there well before her faux pas.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Before then the general public were just oblivious but obviously knew to cook their food properly. In fact we were told to cook all our meats properly. I can't remember people eating meat of any kind where the blood ran out back then.

Ahhh a sweeping statement! - 'I can't remember people eating meat of any kind where the blood ran out back then'
......... in one fell swoop you have dismissed hundreds of years of culinary knowledge and practice were it was the norm and not the exception to serve various meats under done. Marie-Antoine Carême, Alexis Soyer and Joseph Favre to name few have just rolled in thier graves. Many of these historical heavy hitters took there culinary genius from the humble kitchens of the ordinary folk.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Listen dad you do love to twist the things around a lot. What is your problem?

You ask, I'll tell!
I love a good discussion and even heated arguments, but politics, morals and religion I leave out, too much blood shed on those topics.
I posted here about consuming wild pork - regardless it be genuine boar or a feral pig and the risk / cautions associated with doing so.You dismissed it as not being a concern, in fairness to you, you posted some reference material but it was off track. Just because there are no incidents of human illness or swine infection doesn't mean there isn't a viable risk. It is because of the checks and balances in place we don't have issues. But if you introduce an unregulated commodity into the picture then you have problems.
I will gladly debate with you or anyone here subjects such as whether rare meat tastes better then well done meat and if both of us don't agree then we can both toddle off with our own opinions, no harm, no foul. But in all fairness to dismiss best practice, scientific evidence and regulations based on what one thinks is not a good platform for offering advice. There are plenty of comments made on Boards that are incorrect or not factual (I've made a few assumptions over the years) but there are a lot more posts to correct them and inform the general members correctly. So don't take anything personal.
I've posted enough links and facts for people to inform themselves as to what is best practice if handling and eating meat from wild boar or feral pigs to let them make an informed choice in how they do so. When some one else updates this, proves it wrong or inaccurate, then not only will I learn from it hopefully others will to.

Bog Trotter99

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I see the same attitude starting to emerge in Ireland nowadays as well.
Am I the only one here who remembers us buying" a pounds worth of broken biscuts" for the tea growing up?
That i think is one of our mortal sins of the Western world ,our sheer wastage of good food.

Grizzly dont get me started. Scratchins from the chip shop which were bits of batter and broken chips. Broken wafers from the ice cream man. etc

I hear dirty spuds are coming back. That may lead to few divorces I think.

Bog Trotter99

cookimonster wrote: »

I'm not twisting things and I'm also not posting what 'I think', several times now there has been factual, quantifiable posts here on issues with parasite infestation of pork meat ie trichinella and yet you still come out with statements such-






Salmonella bacteria were first discovered by an American scientist named Dr. Daniel E. Salmon in 1885 and has been linked to chickens since the 1930s. Intensive farming and egg production has led to increased risks and effect on the general public. But in recent years there has been ever increasing outbreaks of salmonella in humans linked to 'back yard poultry'. Recent clamp down here in Ireland has seen back yard egg producers shut down due to risk of unregulated egg production. Edwina Curry certainly did not handle the situation well but the issues were there well before her faux pas.




Ahhh a sweeping statement! - 'I can't remember people eating meat of any kind where the blood ran out back then'
......... in one fell swoop you have dismissed hundreds of years of culinary knowledge and practice were it was the norm and not the exception to serve various meats under done. Marie-Antoine Carême, Alexis Soyer and Joseph Favre to name few have just rolled in thier graves. Many of these historical heavy hitters took there culinary genius from the humble kitchens of the ordinary folk.



You ask, I'll tell!
I love a good discussion and even heated arguments, but politics, morals and religion I leave out, too much blood shed on those topics.
I posted here about consuming wild pork - regardless it be genuine boar or a feral pig and the risk / cautions associated with doing so.You dismissed it as not being a concern, in fairness to you, you posted some reference material but it was off track. Just because there are no incidents of human illness or swine infection doesn't mean there isn't a viable risk. It is because of the checks and balances in place we don't have issues. But if you introduce an unregulated commodity into the picture then you have problems.
I will gladly debate with you or anyone here subjects such as whether rare meat tastes better then well done meat and if both of us don't agree then we can both toddle off with our own opinions, no harm, no foul. But in all fairness to dismiss best practice, scientific evidence and regulations based on what one thinks is not a good platform for offering advice. There are plenty of comments made on Boards that are incorrect or not factual (I've made a few assumptions over the years) but there are a lot more posts to correct them and inform the general members correctly. So don't take anything personal.
I've posted enough links and facts for people to inform themselves as to what is best practice if handling and eating meat from wild boar or feral pigs to let them make an informed choice in how they do so. When some one else updates this, proves it wrong or inaccurate, then not only will I learn from it hopefully others will to.

Jeez dotting the 'I's and crossing the 'T's. Your worm aint been found in Ireland and the UK since 1969 except once in a fox 12 years ago.

Ok Mr Super Clean. I admit defeat. Your are the smartest who knows everything about food past and present. I will bow out so you can give Google a rest now.

Mellor

cookimonster wrote: »

Firstly as I have being saying all along (see references in my posts) and Mellor has pointed out this is NOT about worms but a specific meat, as in the edible flesh, infecting parasite found in Pigs (as well as other omnivores) that will infect humans.

Secoundly Pigs / Wild boar are tested for the food chain full stop - it happens.

Thirdly- is trichinella presently been found in domesticated pig herds ?- NO. Why - because of current practices and testing routines. Do we still need to test for it - YES to ensure continuing eradication of the threat.

Exactly. It’s clear cut.

Recent studies showed that most domestic cooks didn't cook sausages to the proper internal temperature required to render it safe to eat - there are a raft of viable food poisoning issues concerned with this. The current regulations are as followers -

I think people forget that sausages and are minced product just burger, mince. So the surface bacteria is mixed through.

Gone are the days I could either order or serve burgers cooked rare. But funnily enough (backed up by a volume of food safety references) I may still offer Steak Tartare (a raw minced beef dish)

I sometimes cook mid-rare burgers at home. But when doing so, I’ll go to the butcher and get him to mince fresh whole beef immediately before I’m cooking. Obvious professional cooks are more restricted.

The recent practice (of some) for cooking pork under done (63-65C) has come about from the thought process that Trichinella has been brought under control, general meat processing practices and the scientific evidence that a parasite such as Trichinella will die off at internal temperatures of approximately 60C+/-. This assumes a great deal and requires a collective chain of events to be all good and proper and in practicality all the meat tissue must reach the internal temperature for a specific time value to ensure all the parasites are dead. So in practical means and to add in a degree of safety the higher temperatures are the best way to go.

The USDA changed their min temp guidelines from 170f (72c) to 145f (63c) last year. FSAI have not afaik.
I’d agree with your assessment of the situation above. If I thought they was any chance there was parasites. I wouldn’t be relying on them probably being dead at 63c.
But if I was sure 100% there was none, I consider that info also.

(This is not good safety advice)
I typical take pork off at 70. And let it rest for a bit, usually comes a notch or two. I’m good with that.

cookimonster

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Jeez dotting the 'I's and crossing the 'T's. Your worm aint been found in Ireland and the UK since 1969 except once in a fox 12 years ago.

I can supply you with the contact details for the FSAI, EFSA and the Department of Agriculture if you want to inform them of that fact, maybe they'll stop the testing!

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Ok Mr Super Clean....

You wouldn't assume that if you saw me dragging a deer off the hill or cleaning a mixed box of fish on the quay side.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

.......I admit defeat. Your are the smartest who knows everything about food past and present. I will bow out so you can give Google a rest now.

....ooh thank the Almighty, my Google finger is worn to a nub downloading reference information to back up my limited 33 year professional catering career spanning industry experience, teaching, consulting, planning and design not to mention a fair few pork dishes under my belt both figuratively and factually based on the size of my waist line.
Notice how I don't comment of forums about football or say car mechanics..... they are not my bag.

Feisar

Mellor wrote: »

I sometimes cook mid-rare burgers at home. But when doing so, I’ll go to the butcher and get him to mince fresh whole beef immediately before I’m cooking. Obvious professional cooks are more restricted.

I've minced ribeyes at home and cooked them up with a bit of pink in the middle. But I reckon I was wrong in my thinking. There's nothing special about a steak in terms of food safety. By mincing it I was mixing the outside of the cut with the inside. So on cooking I wasn't much safer than regular mince, all other things being equal. But they aren't equal, one could have meat from ten different animals in a shop bought mince. At least the steak is from the one animal.

I was reading somewhere, can't remember where now but apparently colour, i.e. pink or cooked brown isn't a reliable method of gauging how well a burger is done. It could be at the right food safe temp and still be a little pink.

In other news look up reverse seared steak. You need a slab of meat for it but it's some job.

Feisar

On the topic of food safety, how does sushi work/not poison me?

Richard308

Feisar wrote: »

On the topic of food safety, how does sushi work/not poison me?

Certain types of fish, ie tuna, salmon, swordfish (not white fish open to correction) are salted, rubbed kills bacteria etc. You can do the same to some types of pork and eat close enough to raw(probably opened another can of worms figuratively speaking) think I have some in the fridge. I’ll take a pic

Bog Trotter99

cookimonster wrote: »

I can supply you with the contact details for the FSAI, EFSA and the Department of Agriculture if you want to inform them of that fact, maybe they'll stop the testing!




You wouldn't assume that if you saw me dragging a deer off the hill or cleaning a mixed box of fish on the quay side.



....ooh thank the Almighty, my Google finger is worn to a nub downloading reference information to back up my limited 33 year professional catering career spanning industry experience, teaching, consulting, planning and design not to mention a fair few pork dishes under my belt both figuratively and factually based on the size of my waist line.
Notice how I don't comment of forums about football or say car mechanics..... they are not my bag.

But you also do not know how people thought of such subjects before you and what they did about them. You also do not know of farming practices in this case pigs in the past and what goes on now and why this is relevant to the topic. This I have tried to explain but instead get fact checked by a google warrior on things I have not even mentioned or have mentioned in another context.

You may know about food hygiene since 1980 something and back on topic, you may have been correct for a parasite which can live in pigs. But in the UK and Ireland they have been searching for it. They found it once in a wild animal (a fox) in 52 years.

My Mrs puts things away. Even I have found them more often than that and that really is a struggle.

I don't believe I ever argued with hospitality hygiene practices so rest assured your job is safe. I do believe that after eating green mouldy sausage rolls, having a silver fish run under my black pudding, finding slugs and bird ****e on my salad, getting ill from a fried chicken outlet and a relation getting worms from purchased sandwiches (wash hands), you actually do a good job.........when not on Google.

cookimonster

Richard308 wrote: »

Certain types of fish, ie tuna, salmon, swordfish (not white fish open to correction) are salted, rubbed kills bacteria etc. You can do the same to some types of pork and eat close enough to raw(probably opened another can of worms figuratively speaking) think I have some in the fridge. I’ll take a pic

Not quite.

The fish is bled, prepared and served raw. The fish is usually fresh but we were advised to freeze the likes of salmon caught here due to the prevalence of parasites. In this case deep freezing for 24 hours render the fish safe.

Try thin slices of raw venison dipped in a blend of good soya sauce, rice vinegar and seasoned with garlic, chillies and ginger.

Feisar

cookimonster wrote: »

good soya sauce, rice vinegar and seasoned with garlic, chillies and ginger.

And that's the thing with sushi, it's pretty ignore-able till you bring in the soy sauce, wasabi and kimchi.

A bit like our own spuds actually, a great butter delivery mechanism!

cookimonster

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

......you also do not know of farming practices in this case pigs in the past and what goes on now and why this is relevant to the topic.

I don't pretend to know of the intricacies of pig farming but I do know why alot of the food safety regulations came into being and it wasn't all to do with modern food production. Many of the traditional practices of farming were no longer compatible with safe practices and many of the issues associated with food production are in fact historical.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

But in the UK and Ireland they have been searching for it. They found it once in a wild animal (a fox) in 52 years.

....and still you don't get the relevance of that fact. I won't repeat myself.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I do believe that after eating green mouldy sausage rolls, having a silver fish run under my black pudding, finding slugs and bird ****e on my salad, getting ill from a fried chicken outlet and a relation getting worms from purchased sandwiches (wash hands), ..../QUOTE]

Every example you give above is why we have checks and balances in the food industry, if not it would be alot worse then the public perceive.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

...... fact checked by a google warrior.....

.... you actually do a good job.........when not on Google.

Really, .... well thanks, obviously when you can't put together a rational, cohesive and factual argument you just turn to smart and snide remarks.

cookimonster

Feisar wrote: »

And that's the thing with sushi, it's pretty ignore-able till you bring in the soy sauce, wasabi and kimchi.

A bit like our own spuds actually, a great butter delivery mechanism!

Some of the wild fish is good, mackerel for instance. I do enjoy fresh oysters.