Employer wants us back on site🙁

fullstop

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Post 9


No more information than that.
I don't know why people are assuming the opposite.

Post 40

“Yes, protocols are in place”

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Was very surprised by that comment too- anecdotally I hear people with lengthy commutes in particular being much more productive and engaged (stands to reason)- not always clock watching and wasting energy commuting.

Yeah, everyone I work with seem to enjoy the flexibility WFH provides, though the consensus does seem to prefer a hybrid option. So do I.

road_high

TP_CM wrote: »

Why can't they? There are plenty of pro-employee laws which stop companies from being unreasonable. This is just another one which gives employees a choice if they can get the same job done at home. Absolutely everyone wants the choice. No voter or employee anywhere would rather their employer have full control of it. So to me it's an easy thing for our lawmakers to look into. Maybe in 2 or 3 generations time, they'll be thinking how crap it was to work during a time when the employer was able to take all your free time, family time, money for commuting, mental health and tell you to sit in front of them while you work so they can keep an eye on you. Not beyond the boundaries of possibility for me to imagine that changing.

I'd have to file this under "wishful thinking" rather than any grounding in legal realities. You just cannot force employers to employ people on wfh if they do no want to or it doesn't best serve their needs.
Hope it works out for you- best advice I can give you is to engage with your employer positively rather than acrimoniously which will prove futile and probably counter productive.

TP_CM

Dav010 wrote: »

Sounds like unemployment might be the best fit for your work criteria.

I'm not with you. I work for an employer who has moved my office location 4 times and each time it has gone further and further from my home. Used to be a 5 minute walk. Now it's 1 hour and 15 minutes public transport commute. I work longer and harder for them at home.

Alkers

Very surprised at the commentary here!

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html#.

The guidelines clearly state that unless absolutely essential, everyone should continue to work from home. All the other examples about bin men bar staff etc are irrelevant if the OP can perform their duties when remotely.

The above link clearly states that post-covid, employees do not currently have a right to work from home, but government have set out an intention to make this the case. You will be able to formally request home working, and if the response isn't reasonable, cab be appealed to the WRC

We need to keep the transmission of the virus to a minimum, particularly as other more risky activities (outdoor drinking in pubs) are permitted, we shouldn't be maximising the potential for subsequent transmission by working together indoors.

fullstop

TP_CM wrote: »

Wouldn't have a leg to stand on is a bit far. What you're talking about is someone who is getting their job done from a place which is better for the environment, better for commuters, better from a pandemic perspective and better for their mental health. Vs what exactly, a control freak who wants to bin all of that just so they can keep an eye on them.

All they’d have to do is say it’s a job that required you to be in the office (which is probably already in his contract) and if you can’t they could just manage you out if the business. “Sorry we’ve restructured the department and this role is no longer required. Bye now”.

Dav010

Alkers wrote: »

Very surprised at the commentary here!

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html#.

The guidelines clearly state that unless absolutely essential, everyone should continue to work from home. All the other examples about bin men bar staff etc are irrelevant if the OP can perform their duties when remotely.

The above link clearly states that post-covid, employees do not currently have a right to work from home, but government have set out an intention to make this the case. You will be able to formally request home working, and if the response isn't reasonable, cab be appealed to the WRC

We need to keep the transmission of the virus to a minimum, particularly as other more risky activities (outdoor drinking in pubs) are permitted, we shouldn't be maximising the potential for subsequent transmission by working together indoors.

Again, that word “ guidelines”, they are for guidance rather than a requirement.

The Oort Cloud

JamBur wrote: »

Sorry if this seems harsh but in my opinion, this strikes of malingering. Im sure your employer will have all the appropriate precautions in place. They pay your salary, so you need to play be their rules.

That's a stupid thing to say, because how would you know what the employer has on their mind unless you know the employer at hand?. I'm sure it's going to rain in three days

SouthWesterly

Wizard! wrote: »

Where? I am working in DSP and we are not allowed in the office. Very few exceptions, people that need to access parer archives.

My dept is the same. Stats are showing Increased productivity and reduction in sick leave.

Thats a plus for any employer

road_high

Alkers wrote: »

Very surprised at the commentary here!

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html#.

The guidelines clearly state that unless absolutely essential, everyone should continue to work from home. All the other examples about bin men bar staff etc are irrelevant if the OP can perform their duties when remotely.

The above link clearly states that post-covid, employees do not currently have a right to work from home, but government have set out an intention to make this the case. You will be able to formally request home working, and if the response isn't reasonable, cab be appealed to the WRC

We need to keep the transmission of the virus to a minimum, particularly as other more risky activities (outdoor drinking in pubs) are permitted, we shouldn't be maximising the potential for subsequent transmission by working together indoors.

The employer can say and claim it is absolutely essential. Box ticked. Again Guidance is not law.
In my experience these things tend to be well covered by the company. This is why they have HR.

Dav010

The Oort Cloud wrote: »

That's a stupid thing to say, because how would you know what the employer has on their mind unless you know the employer at hand?. I'm sure it's going to rain in three days

Helps when you read the thread, op has confirmed safety protocols are in place.

Really surprised that an MNC is taking this stance. My NYC headquartered MNC has committed to 2 days a week, and anything extra at the discretion of the employee (and subject to hotdesking capacity). Thought MNCs would be more flexible than yours across the board

Locotastic

Alkers wrote: »

Very surprised at the commentary here!

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/health_and_safety/working_at_home.html#.

The guidelines clearly state that unless absolutely essential, everyone should continue to work from home. All the other examples about bin men bar staff etc are irrelevant if the OP can perform their duties when remotely.

The above link clearly states that post-covid, employees do not currently have a right to work from home, but government have set out an intention to make this the case. You will be able to formally request home working, and if the response isn't reasonable, cab be appealed to the WRC

We need to keep the transmission of the virus to a minimum, particularly as other more risky activities (outdoor drinking in pubs) are permitted, we shouldn't be maximising the potential for subsequent transmission by working together indoors.

The employer will just say that it's absolutely essential that they work from the office (like mine has since day 1).

Even though technically its not absolutely essential at all, but there are two clear choices here either follow the employers lead or look for another more suitable position.

You can request to work from home and your employer can also refuse the request.

TP_CM

Dav010 wrote: »

Is it not 4 years for FTCs? After which they have to be offered a contract of indefinite duration. Again, that is very different from a employee being able to dictate to their employer where their workplace is. Your employment will continue to be based on the offer made and contract agreed.

Not if the lawmakers change it. Companies can't override national law. They can't override discriminatory laws or laws which give 10 days sick leave pay to employees by 2025. To me it's an obvious thing but I can see from the perspective of those who want everything back the way it was before. Where we all crammed into trams and sat on the M50 and left our kids in creches from 7:30am until 6:30pm just so our employer could watch what we're doing. To me that's madness, borderline cruel for people like the OP who clearly does not want to return, or people with small families. All for what really? The world will still turn. The company won't collapse. The work will get done and there are existing processes in place for if it doesn't. Plenty of people in the office doing absolutely nothing. We've been dealing with them for decades.

road_high

Deleted User wrote: »

Really surprised that an MNC is taking this stance. My NYC headquartered MNC has committed to 2 days a week, and anything extra at the discretion of the employee (and subject to hotdesking capacity). Thought MNCs would be more flexible than yours across the board

My hunch as i said is that possibly in mixed manufacturing/office set ups like the OP's there may be politics at play and the business wanting to be seen to treat everyone the same. And thus a policy to be seen to treat all staff the same -"if it's
safe for me, why is not safe for them" kind of thing. I can hear it being said :pac:

road_high

road_high wrote: »

My hunch as i said is that possibly in mixed manufacturing/office set ups like the OP's there may be politics at play and the business wanting to be seen to treat everyone the same. And thus a policy to be seen to treat all staff the same -"if it's
safe for me, why is not safe for them" kind of thing. I can hear it being said :pac:

yes, I can see that. Manufacturing staff probably not happy to see the office staff in only a couple of days a week

ginoginelli

Poor form from your employers. Offices are on the higer end of risk for covid. Most measures in place are insufficient, only partially adhered to, and not enforced by the companies.

I still see people talking about hand sanitizer and temperature checks. These measures, which are purely cosmetic, will do nothing to stop the spread. Some offices are still ignoring ventilation concerns and dont even insist on masks at desks.

I'd hold off till your vaccinated if possible.

Alkers

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, that word “ guidelines”, they are for guidance rather than a requirement.

Appreciate that, if your employer was going directly in face of some other employment guidelines, you'd probably feel pretty aggrieved. Why is this one different, people's wellbeing is at stake.

Also, they have been guidelines all along, why suddenly choose not to obey them, noting the op is not vaccinated

road_high

TP_CM wrote: »

Not if the lawmakers change it. Companies can't override national law. They can't override discriminatory laws or laws which give 10 days sick leave pay to employees by 2025. To me it's an obvious thing but I can see from the perspective of those who want everything back the way it was before. Where we all crammed into trams and sat on the M50 and left our kids in creches from 7:30am until 6:30pm just so our employer could watch what we're doing. To me that's madness, borderline cruel for people like the OP who clearly does not want to return, or people with small families. All for what really? The world will still turn. The company won't collapse. The work will get done and there are existing processes in place for if it doesn't. Plenty of people in the office doing absolutely nothing. We've been dealing with them for decades.

I think you're looking at this from an emotional standpoint (I do get that as people are not robots) rather than a hard nosed business one which the company ultimately will be doing. You have got to make your case to your employer but ultimately they are not obligated to oblige and never will be in my view.
My wfh exists as that is what works best for the business (we are a tiny team and saves the business the big costs of offices leases etc).

Rikand

Wizard! wrote: »

Where? I am working in DSP and we are not allowed in the office. Very few exceptions, people that need to access parer archives.

I work in another civil service department and apart from the 3 weeks off at the very start, we've been in ever since

Dav010

Alkers wrote: »

Appreciate that, if your employer was going directly in face of some other employment guidelines, you'd probably feel pretty aggrieved. Why is this one different, people's wellbeing is at stake.

Also, they have been guidelines all along, why suddenly choose not to obey them, noting the op is not vaccinated

I suspect this is due to the numbers which have been vaccinated and falling infection/hospitalisation rates leading to retail/services reopening.

Suckit

Wasn't there a report in the U.S. a few weeks ago that stated employees were quitting instead of going back to working (not from home).. and then a few days later a similar one in the UK?
I wonder if this could be their reason for 'banging the drum'.

TP_CM

road_high wrote: »

I think you're looking at this from an emotional standpoint (I do get that as people are not robots) rather than a hard nosed business one which the company ultimately will be doing. You have got to make your case to your employer but ultimately they are not obligated to oblige and never will be in my view.
My wfh exists as that is what works best for the business (we are a tiny team and saves the business the big costs of offices leases etc).

Not currently, I get that. I'm talking new law or court cases which might encourage new laws to be put in place. I'd be writing to my local TD if I saw a case of a family guy clearly working better from home being fired for not doing it from an office which has recently moved to a location which is now 1.5 hours from his home.

Dav010

TP_CM wrote: »

Not currently, I get that. I'm talking new law or court cases which might encourage new laws to be put in place. I'd be writing to my local TD if I saw a case of a family guy clearly working better from home being fired for not doing it from an office which has recently moved to a location which is now 1.5 hours from his home.

That is a completely different scenario to what is being discussed. The op’s work location is not being moved from it’s pre-Covid location. There is nothing to indicate that the office mentioned in the op differs from that stated in the contract of employment.

Larbre34

Employers that attempt to recall office environments to full capacity before at least mid-September will be challenged by the the State under various health and safety provisions.

It doesn't matter if you're in a union or not, or even if your company is unionised at all, a precedent will be set by organisations that are.

Unless and until the Government reduces the public health restrictions to zero (even Level 1 mandates staggered attendance only in offices) there will not be no full return to office work, no matter what management decisions are made.

If they push it, report them anonymously.

Bigmac1euro

It’s looking like my place is going to be 2 days in office a week and then 3 days the following week and then keep rotating like that. The first few weeks will be slower as the office will be at 25% capacity and will go to 50% capacity and stop.
The business is changing which is brilliant to see but I know what’s going to happen.
You’re going to get the fools over time doing 4 days a week and then it will become a competition who’s in the office the most and we’ll all be back before you know it.

I wanted to go back to the office last September when we were supposed to be, but now I am absolutely dreading it. I’m considering looking for a full time WFH job. Life is too short and I’ve learnt that in the last 16 months. **** the rat race in general it’s a joke of a slave driven life we all mindlessly live. And as a country we’re an extremely soft touch so there won’t be much push back. The companies will get their way and life will return to our 9-5 normality wasting years on trains and motorways a man made unhealthy planet destroying disaster.
Rant over.

Dav010

Larbre34 wrote: »

Employers that attempt to recall office environments to full capacity before at least mid-September will be challenged by the the State under various health and safety provisions.

It doesn't matter if you're in a union or not, or even if your company is unionised at all, a precedent will be set by organisations that are.

Unless and until the Government reduces the public health restrictions to zero (even Level 1 mandates staggered attendance only in offices) there will not be no full return to office work, no matter what management decisions are made.

If they push it, report them anonymously.

What health and safety provisions? To date they have offered guidance/advice. No doubt there are plenty of workplaces with full staff, I was in a few of them today.

Bigmac1euro

Dav010 wrote: »

What health and safety provisions? To date they have offered guidance. No doubt there are plenty of workplaces with full staff, I was in a few of them today.

And you need to settle down Leo
It’s only p0xy June.

Padre_Pio

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Urgh yourself. The only guidelines being mentioned was allowing wfh to continue.

Again, guidelines aren't laws. They can ignore them. They do ignore them.

And no, bars weren't open if they could follow guidelines. There were laws dictating.

Urgh again.

Employer DO need to follow them.
You can make a complaint to the HSA if your employer does not follow them.
You're right that they're not laws, in that there are no civil or criminal charges.

However the HSA can bring an employer to court for failing to apply it's directives regarding COVID guidelines.

Educate yourself.

ginoginelli

ginoginelli wrote: »

Poor form from your employers. Offices are on the higer end of risk for covid. Most measures in place are insufficient, only partially adhered to, and not enforced by the companies.

I still see people talking about hand sanitizer and temperature checks. These measures, which are purely cosmetic, will do nothing to stop the spread. Some offices are still ignoring ventilation concerns and dont even insist on masks at desks.

I'd hold off till your vaccinated if possible.

I work on a team. We all share a workspace and to our knowledge, none of us across 4 teams working 24/7 have gotten or transmitted covid.

In fact only 3 people tested positive in the entire building and that's 100+ staff sharing one kitchen,3 cars and utensils.