Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

07-07-2022 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306201#Comment_119306201

I don't think that any guests staying over at Jule's had any motive or interest to kill Sophie

i didn't mean to suggest they had. I just wondered who they were. i have not heard of them before as far as i can recall.

chooseusername · 07-07-2022 9:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119305901#Comment_119305901

Jules had 3 daughters.

The story of the 2 young male guests probably from Crime Guy blog . If true it means 8 people in Prairie Cottage on the night Bailey left the house, travelled over to Dreenane, murdered Sophie, returned home, cleaned up after a brutal, bloody murder and in the morning took Jules a cup of coffee in bed!!!

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306313#Comment_119306313

I don't think this would have gone unnoticed, by 8 people in the house. Maybe an experienced killer could have hidden any links to a killing that night, but Bailey wasn't an experienced killer. If Bailey did it, it would have been his first killing.

Also Bailey remained a free man, meaning, if he wanted to kill, or specifically kill women for whatever reason he probably would have struck again. But there were no murders, nothing similar in the whole area. So the killing was purely about Sophie, something Sophie knew, did, or didn't do, or threated to do, so she was killed.... This would mean a certain background knowledge about that something, and suggesting that killer and victim knew each other.

07-07-2022 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306411#Comment_119306411

not necessarily. it could be he was rejected or they had an argument and he lost it. No background knowledge or previous relationship needed

And does not mean he would it again

tinytobe · 07-07-2022 10:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306498#Comment_119306498

Just for the exercise, let's assume it was Bailey and his motive was sexual: First he would have to have known that Sophie was in Ireland, and that only for a short time. That's a long time to wait for having sex, plus he had Jules, but still if he wanted to cheat on Jules it's a long wait.

Then he would have to have hiked over to her place in darkness and after many drinks. Ian and Jules probably got home from the pub at around midnight, maybe 12.30? If Jules went to bed at 1am, then Ian could have started his hike over to Sophie's by then. He would have arrived at around 2am. I don't know how many women would open their doors to strangers at 2am? And Sophie would certainly not have waited for Bailey. Bailey is a strong man, even if he wanted to rape her, he would have done it inside the house, or at least somewhere hidden by the house, but not in the driveway by the gates. That all sounds rather unrealistic.

I think Sophie opened her door to somebody she knew or trusted, and probably expected to visit her.

08-07-2022 6:59pm

being with Jules wouldn't mean he was not interested in Sophie. it does not have to be he was waiting for her to arrive in ireland that is nonsense. could be a spur of the moment drunken idea. he may have driven Jules car

I'm sure he knew she was in town a journalist he would know even if they had not met her. Her husband said she feared no one and would probably have opened the door and told IB to get lost

And Sophie would certainly not have waited for Bailey. Bailey is a strong man, even if he wanted to rape her, he would have done it inside the house, or at least somewhere hidden by the house, but not in the driveway by the gates

he would have to catch her. she ran to the driveway by the gates so she was not inside the house or somewhere hidden by it. If it was him or whoever it was probably hit her before she ran and then had to finish the job or be in trouble

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310397#Comment_119310397

It's possible. However it's hard to think that he didn't leave blood in Jules car, if it happened that way. So he must have cleaned Jules car thoroughly, and in a way, that forensics would never find anything as well. Also, there is no evidence that Sophie provoked Ian in any way and having a sexual desire or a woman you've only seen from a distance or barely seen is also a bit strange but not impossible. If Bailey wanted to cheat on Jules, I am sure, he wouldn't have to wait for Sophie....

The only rumor I've heard is that Bailey had contact with Sophie and her office in Paris, exchanging words, possible he was to do some artistic work? And she may have turned him down later on, and it all turned into an argument and got nasty and Bailey lost his mind? But that's a very far speculation, but it would at least have been motive.

I still think from a motive point of view, Bailey would have had the least reason of killing her or visiting her that evening, night or early morning.

08-07-2022 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310423#Comment_119310423

it could have been the poetry or some other argument

If Bailey wanted to cheat on Jules, I am sure, he wouldn't have to wait for Sophie....

that is irrelevant.. The two possibilities are not connected

jimwallace197 · 08-07-2022 8:22pm

Sex can be a powerful motivator. I wouldnt rule out Bailey heading over there thinking he could charm the foreign French aristocrat into her bed with his poetry recitals. After all, they are both supposed artists.

But, heading over there the morning after the murder to report on it, making Jules a cup of coffee the morning after the supposed murder, not leaving a single piece of DNA evidence there or in the car or at Jules house despite being an alcoholic is so far fetched its implausible.

This is where the prosecutions case falls down. Either Bailey is an alcholic incapable of controlling his impulsion's or he's an opportunistic rapist/murderer who is so scientifically aware that he doesnt leave a single trace of his DNA.

On top of this,

1) hes stayed in the area

2) asked the DPP to reopen the investigation a number of times

3) offered his blood to the gards to see if they could corroborate it to the blood at the scene

4) His partner of 20 to 25 years has stayed loyal to him & despite splitting up continues to believe he's innocent

5) Any witness thats come forward has been shown to be completely unreliable

Amongst many many other points

Any half decent barrister would have a field day with this court. We've a thing called due process in this country thankfully. Actually barristers would be lining up to take this case, high profile & high certainty of a win.

08-07-2022 8:29pm

5) Any witness thats come forward has been shown to be completely unreliable

that is not shown to be true. No one here knows if they are reliable or not why would the cheesemaker say it

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310669#Comment_119310669

Regarding due process, they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Bailey was the killer, even worse that the French authorities passed a sentence of 25 years. They were not able to match the murder weapon to Bailey, even though Bailey volunteered his DNA to the police, they also didn't find any DNA of Bailey at the murder site. They can't even prove that Bailey was in the area at that time, not even stating any motive. If the scratches Bailey had were of Sophie's finger nails, Bailey's DNA would have been there, but it wasn't. Anybody who's been drunk that evening and was not able to control impulsions would have left DNA at the scene.

The other thought, I've had is that if Bailey really did it, he wouldn't have been able to have hidden it from Jules. She could have helped him out of loyalty to him clean the car, dispose of the clothes, and that all in the early hours of the morning, their guests staying over not noticing anything. If she was driving the car she would have been an accessory to murder, even more the motive to stay loyal to Bailey. It's not impossible, it's just a theory, but again very hard to prove.

Evergreen_7 · 08-07-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310669#Comment_119310669

Could have been, coupled with his ego getting hurt. Bailey has a deluded sense of self from what I’ve seen in interviews, he’s a complete narcissist who’s only claim to fame is being a murder suspect, and what’s worse he revels in it. He’s selling t shirts now with his ugly face on it and claiming they’re “flying out like hotcakes” (American tourists must be back in schull that’s all I can say).

you’ve made good points and that’s why it’s never made it to court, but I think he enjoys knowing that so far there’s not enough evidence to nail him, he seems to like playing games and nearly making people think it’s him. If it isn’t, it’s no wonder he’s the suspect, the gardai did a **** job we all know that but it doesn’t make Bailey innocent either, just lucky.

Evergreen_7 · 08-07-2022 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306498#Comment_119306498

it’s true. People think if someone kills once they will again but it’s not necessarily the case. See with Bailey, he craves attention because he’s a narcissist, well he got it. He was named a suspect almost immediately. If attention and feeding his ego was part of what drove him to kill, and his ego is being fed by being the centre of attention as the suspect, he’d have no need to kill again.

it depends on the psychology of the killer.

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 9:58pm

Narcissism and the psychology of a killer, I'd say back then the local Guards didn't understand a thing about that one.

Odd theory, but, if Bailey did it, would it be possible that Bailey was able to bribe one or two Guards to botch the crime scene up in his favour?

I mean, if he did kill Sophie, but then volunteered a DNA sample early on, he must have been more than certain, that his DNA would never be found on the crime scene? And that certainty he could have gotten with one or two bribed Guards?

Evergreen_7 · 08-07-2022 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311126#Comment_119311126

Wasn’t that idiot Foster spouting stuff about that a while back? That the gardai messed up then covered it up? Probably all rubbish, he’s a hack. Been very quiet since this announcement too.

gameoverdude · 08-07-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311126#Comment_119311126

Yep. Very odd theory.

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311164#Comment_119311164

It's not impossible to think that Bailey wasn't only generating an income as a journalist. Maybe he had a little sideline in narcotics? And Sophie suspected him, but Bailey bribed some of the lower rank Guards so they were on his side? If Bailey really did it, but volunteered DNA samples, he must have been certain they were never any of his at the crime scene, so there must have been something to make that one happen.

When they investigated Bailey, did they never look at his finances? Any odd incoming and outgoing payments? Odd withdrawals? How were Jule's finances? Did she always have a stable income?

It's all phantasy, but also not impossible.

saabsaab · 08-07-2022 10:45pm

One of the oddest things about the case is despite what sems a violent struggle and blood indicating the path taken during the killing, no evidence DNA or otherwise was found in the house, in the garden or on the body. How is this possible?

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311316#Comment_119311316

I'd say the police didn't really collect DNA evidence, - either by their own negligence and incompetence, or they were bribed by somebody like the killer not to. Or the killer was the Guard from Bantry who knew everything about police procedures and was able to wipe everything clean...

It's a bit hard to imagine that Bailey was so thorough to wipe everything clean, it's also hard to imagine that such a crime has no DNA on the murder site - but not impossible....

08-07-2022 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311287#Comment_119311287

It's not impossible to think that Bailey wasn't only generating an income as a journalist. Maybe he had a little sideline in narcotics?

I would not go that far though it may be right. But I would not be surprised if he had at least some hash taken that night on top of the drink that might have clouded his judgement if it was him.

I also would not be surprised if his lawyer told him to do all these interviews be known etc as he can then claim he would not get a fair trial. It helps that that feeds into his narcissism. How would he ever get an impartial jury now?. Really, since he was not charged he should not ever have been named by the papers 25 years ago

08-07-2022 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311070#Comment_119311070

it’s true. People think if someone kills once they will again but it’s not necessarily the case.

Sophie's killing was someone who lost their head in a rage not the sort of person who plans and becomes a serial killer.

08-07-2022 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311344#Comment_119311344

I believe they collected any DNA evidence they could. Detective Gilligan was from Dublin forensic department of the Gardai and had been to many murders. i cannot see why he would treat this any different

tinytobe · 08-07-2022 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311374#Comment_119311374

I could never agree on the idea that it was a complete rage killing.

There must have been some planning to it, out of the simple reason that no DNA was ever found at the crime scene.

Any classical rage crime would leave something at the crime scene. Either the murderer was very careful not to leave anything ( but rage killings are never that), or he bribed the police, or he cleaned up more than thoroughly ( but that would have taken time, and a certain precision, also rare in a rage killing).

If it was Bailey, he could have done excellent planning and probably bribing, but he would never have been thorough and careful after a night of drinks in the pub....

08-07-2022 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311466#Comment_119311466

you said above the garda could have cleaned up DNA. a journalist would know a lot about that too, he would have covered crimes

Doubt the killer bribed Gilligan the spoon man. How would Bailey have bribed Gilligan?

08-07-2022 11:37pm

i see the west Cork Literary Festival began today. Wonder will Bailey go read a few poems. I do not see him mentioned https://www.rte.ie/culture/2022/0607/1303480-west-cork-literary-festival-back-in-action-and-in-person/

https://www.westcorkmusic.ie/literary-festival/programme/?keyword=ian+bailey&festival=literaryfestival#

gameoverdude · 08-07-2022 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311492#Comment_119311492

Why shouldn't he, if he was asked?

FishOnABike · 08-07-2022 11:45pm

So many people doing exactly the same thing that impeded the investigation nearly 26 years ago, starting with a suspect and trying to fit the suspect to the evidence like fitting a square peg in a round hole rather than starting with the evidence and seeing where it leads.