Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349277#Comment_119349277

A poster put them all up on a previous thread - There is a link to it in this one.

tinytobe

To me this doesn't look like a neighbourhood dispute over land, and who owns what. If it was they would have argued that in daylight, emotional language, loud words, maybe f-words, that sort, but not murder. Also, now that her son is the owner of the house and there seems no dispute with the neighbours at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349904#Comment_119349904

Alfie is dead and his wife is gone isn't she. Even if they weren't they would hardly get in a further dispute if one had led to murder, a neignhbour responsible and he/she got away with it. Close call with life in prison would put you right off disputin' i'd say

And maybe the son would not care too much

i agree though it was not about land

OwlsZat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333510#Comment_119333510

Great post!

flanna01

The narcotic's angle is like every other speculation... Just speculation.

If I was aware of a large consignment of drugs coming inland, and I knew the nosey neighbour was at home, I'd find an alternative location to stash my load till she moved on..

She was leaving in a couple of days anyway - No big deal.

What I wouldn't do, is murder her, and bring all the news agencies of the nation, and the worlds camera's to my front door, followed by the boys in blue sniffing around all over the place.. I would want to keep my operation as quiet and discreet as possible.

Realistically, she wasn't murdered either to send a message to other nosey parkers... She wasn't there for the vast majority of the year, turning up for a couple of days here and there. I would definitely work around her visits, make sure she seen nothing untowards..

To murder her in that part of the world, will just bring unwanted attention by the lorry load.. Not good business if you have a boat coming in loaded with drugs.

Besides, who would you be sending a message to....? The only person to get the message was the local drunk guy spouting poetry up the road..

If Sophie was taking pictures and logging the coming and goings of the drugs cartel, she must have great foresight to know when the shipments are coming in, and the motivation to travel from France at Christmas to record such activity..

Nah... Don't buy it.

If that was the case, would it not be easier to just push her over the cliff... Woman out walking, slips and falls into the sea... Badly bashed body recovered three days later.. Nobody none the wiser.

With regards to my previous post: I am not suggesting for one minute that Alfie Lyons was the murderer.. My point was that he had means and motive, a lot more than Bailey would have had.

A poster stated that Alfie's bandaged hand was the result of an old wound opening up.. The Local Doctor apparently confirmed this?

Then why did Alfie Lyons make a statement saying a dog had bitten him?

That is a contradiction, two different stories... This is what gets murderers caught out.

Why would he say a dog bitten him, and then tell a Doctor that an old wound had opened up again? Two different stories to cover an injury?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350500#Comment_119350500

Maybe the dog bite was an old wound?

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350527#Comment_119350527

Maybe it was...??

Shirley's statement was they were dog sitting a friends dog..

Although, there was no dog on the property, most strange..?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350500#Comment_119350500

The way Sophie's head was bashed in, only would leave two logic deductions: ( that is if logic can be applied here)

1) it was a killing in rage, over something, whatever that was

2) it was deliberate and done to send a message to potential others.

The idea of "sending a message" was probably in the wider geographic sense. The killer would have known that this case would get a wider audience and readership across Ireland and France and maybe other countries as well. "Sending a message" would not have been to deter some local nosy people trying to stick their noses into a drug operation. Maybe it was also a message to other drug cartels on how well the business in Ireland was handled by the Irish operatives.

The thing that still bugs me, if it's down to Alfie vs Sophie, in a physical confrontation or a fist fight, is who would be more agile, and quicker? I doubt that it would be Alfie, - he was a good 20 years older than Sophie, Sophie would have outrun him with ease.

The other thing about this murder, which I would say with utter certainty, is that it has some international relation to it. Somebody who lived in that area for longer would not have seen the reason or motive to murder somebody in this brutal way. There must have been more to it. Back in the days, in the mid 90ies I'd say none of the residents made a fortune there, which could have caused envy, jealousy or other grievances. People moved there for the quiet live, not for big money, big careers, etc... Even if let's say in the case of a possible drug trafficking operation, somebody would have made a fortune, it would have been obvious. None of the Guards drove Porsches or Mercedeses or BMWs or had a lifestyle where one would start asking questions.... So if the local Guards or some other local residents were on the payroll of drug traffickers, I'd say they were either not getting a lot, or they'd have to make damn sure, nobody notices a change in their lifestyle.

Maybe the story about Alfie and the dog is true, maybe it's an old bite from an dog, opening up again, not healing right? Could all have been.

FishOnABike

... well there's a much evidence for it as much of the conjecture in the thread...

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349509#Comment_119349509

Was this the photo @flanna01 01 ?

fencing.jpg

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350677#Comment_119350677

There was a few pictures posted on a previous thread. Looked like from ground level as well.

Massive Berevement

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119349064#Comment_119349064

If you want to know how big an operation it could have been have a look on wiki at operation seabight. In 2007 a 440million euro cocaine haul was discovered off that coast. As I said before, Ireland and specifically Cork could be the gateway for drugs from South America into all of Europe. It makes sense seeing how rural it is. But nomatter how rural, with imports as large as that you need a local network to help and without doubt that would include guards. How could they operate in such an isolated location without their knowledge? They couldn't.

Yea i'd have Alfie as a bit part player too, if indeed he was involved. Have a look at where he lived - the most isolated location in an already isolated location - perfect really. And with his only 2 neighbours being holiday homes it's even better. I don't for one minute think he killed her but he could never reveal who did because of his potential involvement. As an aside didn't his wife drive to the dump the day of the murder? Not the most rational thing to be doing.

As another poster mentioned, and something I read before, Sophie thought the shed located between her property and Alfies belonged to her upon buying the property but it was in fact Alfies. What if that's where her drug worries originated - she looked into the shed at some point and found drugs there. The shed was between her and Alfies house so it's not like she had to walk past Alfies to access it. He may never have known. She then told the guards and they did nothing so she decided to take matters into her own hands. With her political connections in France she could have gone way above the local guards heads, should she have the evidence. Hell of a lot at stake for all involved. She could have seen it from the perspective that her peaceful sanctuary and getaway from her life in Paris was tarnished and she was like a dog with a bone to get it fixed.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348473#Comment_119348473

Off topic but where does the water that you use come from? You describe it as a "private supply". Is it rainwater that collects in the well or is it delivered to you in tankers and is it safe to drink?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351177#Comment_119351177

Sophie would also have been the only one noticing things like cars or delivery vans coming and going, especially if it was at night time. Not impossible to think that way.

The only thing that doesn't fit here is that, if say either the Guards or others like Alfie were on any drug cartel's payroll, their lifestyle would have shown it at some point.

The next question would have been, whether it would have been, that a professional drug cartel with a local network, would have considered or approved a shed like this for storage? It's neither secure, can be broken in, and way to obvious and if it wasn't for Sophie, then the Richardsons would have taken notice about unusual activities as well during their visits and stays in the area. Suppose a rival gang would have broken into the shed and stolen the drugs, then Alfie's head would have been bashed in in a similar fashion?

As far as I know Alfie and Shirley lead rather simple lives. Their house wasn't luxury, and most likely all the other houses in the area weren't luxury. The car Shirley drove was a Peugeot, I'd say, if they had a little more money, they'd had an Audi or something like that and also their house would have a bit more luxury.

Same would go for the Guards. As far as I am aware, none of them had lavish lifestyles. And given the incompetence they had shown during the investigation, I'd say, they were doing remarkably well, not showing their extra income at all, that is in speculation, if they were in on it.

And then there would have been logistics from this peninsula to the rest of Ireland to be considered. Sizes in the area of 440 million euro in cocaine hauls, this must mean an unusual high number of vans and trucks coming and going into the area. Or have they been more discreet, using Opel Corsas and Ford Fiestas to drive the stuff off the peninsula? Again, for all the incompetence shown by the Guards in the investigation this logistics operation would have to have been sophisticated and discreet. Not sure, if they could have handled it.

That's the only thing that would sound a bit unusual.

Other than that, your theory is rather plausible.

chicorytip

I think serious international drug traffickers would eschew the employment of locals to assist in their enterprises. They use their own people to land the cargo and transport it to it's ultimate destination - quickly. Storing a highly valuable shipment in Alfie's shed for safe keeping would be unlikely. Dunlough Bay was a favourite landing spot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Seabight?wprov=sfla1

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351310#Comment_119351310

It comes from an underground aquefier with a six inch, lined borehole, typically 100'+ deep (some can be up to 500' or more depending on local geology + hydrology) with an electric pump and pressure vessel to raise the water to the surface and supply sufficient water pressure to the house.

It's deliciously cool crystal clear spring water, having been filtered through hundreds of feet of clay, gravel, sand and rock. Pure and perfectly safe to drink. I much prefer it to the local 'town water'.

OwlsZat

Is there a not a legal requirement from Maria Farrell to name the AGS member she was put with. He should be made testify. It's the main reason for the need for AGS involvement.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351861#Comment_119351861

She named 3 different men at different times, none of which were AGS.

I'm assuming you meant her car share companion on the night/morning of the murder?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30654781.html

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350715#Comment_119350715

The photo above is one of ones on the old thread where a discussion was had about fencing and boundaries.

The idea put forward was these posts were part of fencing work being done around the boundary and may have caused a confrontation. I can't remember if it was on the old thread or on Reddit, but it was pointed out that this photo was taken some days after the murder and those posts were from an old fence pulled out of the ditch by AGS as they searched for clues.

There were no posts on the lawn on the 23rd, I don't see any photos of posts stacked up by the house, as you said.

Although Sophie's hire car is still parked up by the house you can see the ditches around the site are pulled out and cut down.

I only asked the question as I thought you had different photos or information. But it's still a line of enquiry I'm interested in.

The fence visible in the photo above between Sophie's car and her house was explained as having been erected by Sophie to protect a garden she was planting over to the west between her house and the shed, to keep out cattle and sheep.

If that's the case it would mean her having to continue the fence or a gate across the passage that went along by the back wall of her house.

As you say a gate here would block Alfie's only access to his shed.

The only conflict I have with all this is, it puts Alfie in the picture, which I really can't see.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351947#Comment_119351947

I personally find it not very likely that a neighbourhood dispute about fencing, the shed, or who parks the car where would ever justify such a murder. And who owns what, that's easily to be answered, in the land registry, or whatever it's called.

Maybe they argued, maybe a bit of swear words were said, but that's it. This kind of murder was about something more. Also, it took place at night time, in darkness. I don't think that Alfie knocked on Sophie's door at 2 or 3 am to have a dispute about neighbourhood matters, same at 6 or 7am.

I mean, it's not impossible, but my feeling tells me that's not what happened. It would have to have been about more.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352182#Comment_119352182

A neighbour dispute cannot be ruled out. In this country there has been several murders and episodes of violence caused by disputes relating to land, boundarys etc. These kind of situations can be explosive when it comes to temper - even the calmest person can explode into violence to protect what they view as theirs or their rights. It possibly could have been an early morning row about the gate being left open.

Alfie was only in his 50's when this happened - which is relatively young. I know someone mentioned here that he wasnt in great shape. Although he did appear in a french documentary and he didnt look like a man with bad health. Its amazing the strength that can be summoned up though when in a rage so Alfie cannot be ruled out - or Shirley cannot be ruled out either come to think of it.

It still bothers me Shirley and Alfies behaviour on the morning of the discovery of the body. Shirley discovers the body early on her way out on a trip to the dump apparently. Contacts the gardai, the gardai arrive and shes allowed back into her car at lunchtime to go to the dump. How the hell was she in a fit state to drive anywhere after discovering the body of her neighbour violently murdered. Why was she allowed by the gardai to go anywhere? Why was she allowed drive through the crime scene? Why was Alfie not a gentleman and drive to the dump for her? Surely a trip to the dump wouldnt be on your essential to do list after you discovered a body - surely this could have waited.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352516#Comment_119352516

Don't get me wrong here, I personally wouldn't role a neighbour dispute out. However the level of violence inflicted on the victim would be out of the ordinary for this. Also, her son, who inherited the property did for all we know not have any disputes with Alfie or Shirley or with the Richardsons.

He also didn't put up that fence? I would largely guess that fence would only be there to keep animals out, horses, sheep or whatever, not to deter any intruders or burglars.

And also there is the question, if her son would have noticed drug activity in the area? Would the drug traffickers have stopped or avoided the area, just because of the murder? I don't have the answer to this. If he as a father would stay there with family and small children, he certainly would not have tolerated drugs.

dmc17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352516#Comment_119352516

It does seem a bit odd to go off to the dump after finding the body, but then again maybe it was something that needed to be disposed of urgently

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353121#Comment_119353121

Like what? What couldn't wait for 24 or 48 hours double wrapped in plastic bags that could be transported by car?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353210#Comment_119353210

Like what?

You wouldn't want bloody clothes and boots lying around!!

No, the car was searched before being allowed to leave.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353292#Comment_119353292

The car was searched... did that mean a guard throwing a quick look in the boot and back seat or did they actually look at what was being taken away?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353311#Comment_119353311

Or perhaps a guard knowing quite well what was in the car and allowing her to go to the dump.

The car couldn't have been searched properly giving the timelines. Shirley was driving to the dump in the car at lunchtime that day - probably 2 to 3 hours after the gardai arrived at the scene. The gardai at that time couldn't even have ruled out that Sophie wasn't hit by a car as no forensics were done at that stage. In fact no investigation whatsoever was done by lunchtime on the day the body was found so why was Shirley allowed continue with her plans for the day.

chicorytip

It's surprising that she was allowed to do that but was Bailey also allowed in to visit Alfie while the site was still cordoned off ? There is a film clip somewhere of him actually going in. Some cameraman, maybe from RTE, shot it. It was shown in the Netflix documentary.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354065#Comment_119354065

When was the clip shot and who else was allowed in before him I wonder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354065#Comment_119354065

That clip was from a French Documentary made by a French magazine long after the scene had been examined by the garda