Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389790#Comment_119389790

Bailey shopped on Schull main street. Farrell ran a shop on the main street. He shopped on the street where she worked. The main street of a small town.

And she never spotted him about the town once?

Apparently you can only be seen by someone if you're in their shop, or stalking women.

This is what you wrote:

Unless he was a regular stalker of women who might have come into her shop she would never have noticed him

And we come back to...

Yet she is eagle eyed enough to spot him at 3am at night with his hands to his face!

But not able to judge that he is a taller man than her husband, at 3pm in daylight?

Apparently Marie Farrell's vision only works when she's in a moving car and not on Schull main street.

Pull the other one.

I don't know what shenanigans were going on behind the scenes with Farrell and the Guards. What I do know is that she has no credibility as a witness and her story doesn't add, whatever fragments of truth she weaves into her fiction.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389111#Comment_119389111

Thanks. Sorry, I've missed that one. Didn't know that it was MF who identified this man.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119389878#Comment_119389878

You have clearly created a narrative about Farrell in your own mind that is not supported by a number of facts. You can`t prove she knew Bailey and I can`t prove she didn`t. But she says she didn`t know him and he has never accused her of lying about that. In her first contact with Gardaí she said Sophie came in to her shop on that Saturday afternoon.....Sophie was in the village at that time. There was a scruffy looking dark clothed man estimated height 5`10 standing across the street. Bailey, who liked to dress in black was also in the village around that time. She saw the same man early the following morning trying to hitch a lift on the Airhill Road. Bailey was on that road on that morning at a similar time. There is little doubt that the man on the Airhill Road was Bailey. If she knew him as you suggest, why didn`t she identify him in that first statement?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390092#Comment_119390092

I don't know if she knew the man she may have seen before as 'Ian Bailey'. Maybe she did.

But it beggars belief she had never set eyes on him before, working on the main street of the small town of the area he lived in and then spotted him 2-3 times in the same weekend at multiple different locations in and around this small town. Bailey wasn't a hermit who just popped out that weekend to get supplies and retreat into his bunker. He was a noticeable character.

She wasn't trying to identify Bailey to the Gardai in her first statements. That's my point.

jimwallace197

Frankly, Marie Farrell (a known perjurer) shouldnt be anywhere near this investigation. I still believe if she hadnt started with her weird anonymous calls to the gards, this case might have been solved by now. Shes an absolute nutter & should be completely ignored. The fact that Sheridan & the Gards are still listening to her implies just how little they have & how desperate they are. Are we really meant to believe she saw someone in a photo with DTDP who she now believes is the man she saw on the street & on Kealfadda bridge that night, 27 years later. Cmon!!! I wonder did the man in question have a beret also in the photo she saw.

I do believe the gards coerced her but there's level to that, I dont believe the gards had to do a lot for her to point the finger at Bailey apart from some sweeteners especially when it came to getting her husband off on an assault charge.

The only thing that should have happened with her is prison when she refused to name the man that she was in the car with that night with in Baileys trial against the state. The judge bottled it. A few days in prison would no doubt have made her tell the truth about who she was in the car with or whether she was in a car at all. The fact this man has never come forward & the gards havent pushed her to name him either is significant. This guy is nearly as relevant as Alfie Lyons if he exists as he was in close proximity to the murder & obviously knew the area.

Its another weird/strange aspect to this case.

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388379#Comment_119388379

He didn't come across very well in the documentary, not sure why he's so cocky considering the mess they made of the investigation.

I was actually embarrassed that people outside of Ireland would be watching him.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390170#Comment_119390170

I think they had to follow up on what little they have had. And then there is the credibility question as well. The police know by now that their work back then wasn't exactly serious and competent and then there is the public trust to consider as well.

27 years later it's nearly impossible to tell if Marie Farrell had seen this man with a beret outside her shop at the time when Sophie was murdered, or maybe even at another time, like way earlier during the year, when Sophie came to Ireland?

All this Frenchman needs to say, is yes, I've been to Ireland together with Sophie, but that was some time during a previous visit, like in the summer, not in winter, - and there won't be anything against him.

Airline records they won't find anymore at this stage. If Marie Farrell still insists she's seen him in December, the Frenchman can easily argue that MF is lying and would have ample reason to be believed if he said that.

The other thing I find odd, is how long does it really take for the police to go to France, visit this man, take his DNA and compare it with what they have? Couldn't be more than 2 weeks, in the longest case, even quicker. It's more a case of booking flights, setting a date for a meeting than anything else. However, we haven't heard anything so far regarding on any news on this.

Gussie Scrotch

The only thing that should have happened with her is prison when she refused to name the man that she was in the car with that night with in Baileys trial against the state. The judge bottled it. A few days in prison would no doubt have made her tell the truth about who she was in the car with or whether she was in a car at all. The fact this man has never come forward & the gards havent pushed her to name him either is significant.

Absolutely correct.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390487#Comment_119390487

The problem, is that she could have denied that she was in the car in the first place, or even if, it was on the day or two days before.

She could however have gotten into a lot more legal trouble when she walked out of the courtroom, or was telling lies in a courtroom.

Marie Farrell wasn't the smartest, I'd say. She was sadly easy prey for the corrupt Guards in the area and she was most likely coerced and had to go along with their game as well. Anybody with certain smartness would have known how to resist this.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390541#Comment_119390541

Yes,

I have a hunch- call it a gut feel- that Marie was with a Garda that night.

I think that fits with her reluctance to name him and the subsequent reluctance of the Gardai to force her to do so.

There is also her claims of a Garda exposing himself to her at the golf club, another ( maybe the same one) stripping himself naked at a holiday house where she was cleaning and the rather inappropriate conversation between her and a Garda which was recorded at Bandon Garda barracks.

Now I recognise that there is no real substance to this theory, but it does, to me at least, have a faint whiff of scandal about it.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387947#Comment_119387947

Dwyer's manner of speech or personality traits are irrelevant to this discussion. He's a cute country copper who rose to the rank of superintendent. This does not make him a corrupt individual. Anybody with a titter of wit should realise immediately what exactly Dwyer meant when he made that comment to Bailey - "I will place you at Kealfadda Bridge". It meant that he had already gathered what he believed to be credible evidence placing Bailey at the scene. The fact that this evidence arose from statements made by the since discredited Marie Farrell is moot. She appeared genuine at the time. Dwyer had no other leads.

It's a tactic used in police interviews to make comments like this in order to gauge the reaction of the suspect and maybe elicit a confession. Actually, I think that's exactly what Dwyer was attempting to do with Bailey, trying the softly, softly approach. The suspect eventually breaks down and confesses. Dwyer thought Bailey was guilty but an unusual suspect for murder and someone lacking a criminal mindset and might break more easily this way than if he were interrogated in a more aggressive manner.

jimwallace197

No, this is BS, a cute country copper doesnt absolve some corrupt garda from setting someone up/framing an innocent man for murder. This is someones life on the line & him thinking he's smart & clever enough to place him at the scene because he has a hunch or a feeling doesnt cut it. Especially without proper evidence.

The fact that this joker made superintendent speaks volumes about the internal workings of the gards. No doubt who you know & being a cute hoore are necessary requirements to get promotions within the force. If I had my way, I'd have this f*cker up for perverting the cause of justice & fired without a pension over the behavior of the gards underneath his command.

Him & his kind is everything thats wrong with Ireland in relation to the public sector & why this country has been embarrassed internationally with regard to this case.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390634#Comment_119390634

If that is so, I'd suggest, Marie Farrell could easily have hidden an affair.

At this time of the night, pubs were no longer open, and longer drives on the peninsula are rare, given that everything is so close.

They couldn't have driven for more than 30 minutes at best, most likely we're looking at 15 minutes. And they "have seen" Bailey at when? between 2 and 3 am?

So if it wasn't a pub, they must have been somewhere else, somewhere private.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390641#Comment_119390641

Well, somebody, quite probably more than one individual, was corrupt as **** in this investigation.

Missing pages from the garda ”Jobs Book” in relation to the murder investigation are of the most concern GSOC as the specific pages missing are from an area of the book when Ian Bailey seems to have first been identified as a potential suspect in the murder by gardaí – and as such, “they are potentially very significant”.

Job books are meant to form a complete record of all activity undertaken in a major or critical incident along with the rationale for the decisions made.

The report stated that as the hard-backed book had a glued spine “it would not be possible for pages to simply fall out of the book by accident and for them to be removed, this would have to have been a deliberate act”.

https://www.thejournal.ie/grave-concern-over-missing-evidence-in-du-plantier-murder-investigation-4161933-Aug2018/

Gardaí investigating the Sophie Toscan du Plantier murder were prepared to “contemplate altering, modifying or suppressing evidence” that hindered their belief that journalist Ian Bailey killed her, the Fennelly Commission final report has concluded.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20447208.html

These are only the actions that our toothless watchdogs were able to establish. The tip of the iceberg.

So if you're saying he's not corrupt - I see no evidence of that.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390726#Comment_119390726

Marie said they drove to Goleen...............

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390726#Comment_119390726

In all likelihood, Maria Farrell was at home tucked up in bed with her Husband and five children.

What in the name of sweet Jaysis would she be doing running around the coastal roads in the middle of winter..?

She contacts the Guards and makes them aware that she is the only person on the Planet that has seen somebody scurrying away from the scene of a major incident.. She is hot property.

Then she drops the bomb that another person was in the car with her.. Another witness.. A second person who can validate her eye witness account..

But then...

Sorry, can't tell you who he is? It's just a friend? An old buddy of mine, sorry about that lads.....

Nah, no dice here, just have to take my word for it.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390831#Comment_119390831

Well, from Goleen to Kaelfadda Bridge you don't need 2 or 3 hours to drive. And the pubs closed when? 11.30pm back then, maybe 12.30 in the case of a private event? So where did they go ?

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390869#Comment_119390869

I think I read somewhere, that Maria explained to the Guards that they (herself & Mr Invisible), were looking for a suitable beach to have a walk....

Yep... At 3am in the middle of winter... As you do!

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390869#Comment_119390869

Well,

Perhaps they stopped somewhere for a long conversation.

Or something like that..........

Polly701

Always though Farrell was a joke... She had been working in Cork that Sunday. So a long drive up and down. It was a few days before Christmas so she must have had loads to do with five children in house.

I don't believe her at all that she was out driving around at 2am. Has her husband ever given a statement? Has he confirmed she was out of the house?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391147#Comment_119391147

a long conversation, discussing Uganda.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391852#Comment_119391852

Yes.

😉😉

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391894#Comment_119391894

So, if he was married, and she was, where did they go? A hotel? Maybe to Tomi Ungerer.

Incidentally, did you know that Tomi Ungerer was well connected to a certain prostitute from Hamburg, specializing in certain practices?

The Mizen Head was certainly harbouring some strange characters. Suspects, witnesses as well as police officers alike. No wonder this case is unresolved to date.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391953#Comment_119391953

Well,

Bearing in mind that this theory is purely speculative, if her companion was also married, then discretion would be essential in an area like west Cork, where they could quite easily be recognised. That would, I think, rule out hotels etc.

What about a quiet corner of a car park? Or some similarly secluded spot?

Unlikely to be spotted at that hour of the morning......

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392048#Comment_119392048

In the end, that's besides the point. Nothing to do with the murder.

It's just that between closing time of pubs and the time they have allegedly seen Bailey at Kaelfadda bridge, there is an awful lot of time. Also, it's December so, a walk along the beach or so is probably not that comfortable in the cold. There is probably a perfectly innocent explanation, but again, nothing to do with the murder.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390800#Comment_119390800

The Fennelly report does not name names though, does it? We don't know who removed those pages or why they were removed or what happened to them. If Dwyer knew they contained information that either might exonerate Bailey or implicate one of his Garda colleagues, who may also have been a personal friend, and ordered their removal then, yes, he is a bent cop. Like so many aspects of this case we will never know the true story.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392271#Comment_119392271

My hunch is that the Guards were in some way shape or form involved in this murder.

Whether, it's down to one Guard and his sex life or several Guards being on the payroll of some drug traffickers, I can't say. However the level of incompetence in this investigation is in my opinion just a bit too much to be just incompetence, it looks like it was more something intentional and organized at a local level. Something like you suggested, one Guard protecting a close friend, etc....

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392095#Comment_119392095

In itself, no.

However, I believe that if the identity of Marie's companion could be established, then it may cast some light on the case.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392352#Comment_119392352

Marie Farrell is a Walter Mitty sort of person imo.

From Retired detective garda Jim Fitzgerald

Mr Fitzgerald said he was in touch with Ms Farrell on several occasions to try to determine the identity of the man who she claimed she was with on the night she saw a man on Cealfada Bridge on the night of 22/23 December 1997.

Mr Fitzgerald said from three pieces of information she had given him about the man over a couple of weeks he traced him as Jan Bartel from Longford.

When he approached Ms Farrell to confront her with this information she eventually admitted it in and then later tried to facilitate a meeting between the two. 

However, before one such meeting she claimed Mr Bartel had gotten cold feet.

He later managed to arrange a meeting with Mr Bartel through a detective garda based in Longford.

He said Mr Bartel had told him that he knew Ms Farrell well but had not seen her in years and that he was at a function with his wife on the night in question. 

Mr Fitzgerald said after a number of further meetings with Ms Farrell she admitted the man with her was not Mr Bartel, but that she could not reveal who it was because of personal problems.

Source; https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0217/680842-bailey/

Anyway, wasnt Sophie Killed just having Breakfast as an undigested meal was found in her stomach in the autopsy.

The Body was discovered at 10.30am, breakfast was most eaten probably 2 hours at the earliest.

So she could have eaten her last meal Between 8am _ 10.30am.

Farrell apparently seeing someone at 3am, even if true was probably not the killer.

I don't think the killer would be wandering around for several hours miles from the murder location.

OwlsZat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294255#Comment_119294255

He WANTs to be in the story that's what a narcissist does. I wouldn't bother adding to his notoriety. He is obviously detestable, he just didn't murder Sophie. Wish everyone would just stop doing what he wants.

I suspect he inserted himself into the story with a view to making money from wrongful arrest later on, which backfired spectacularly.