Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

chooseusername

The 6 pages of the GSOC report relating to Marie Farrell start at page 15 for those who may not have read it.

Believe as much of it as you will, but the timelines of the phone calls and alleged sightings are there ;

https://www.gardaombudsman.ie/news-room/archive/information-report-from-the-garda-siochana-ombudsman-commission-at-the-completion-of-the-investigation-into-the-complaints-of-ian-bailey-catherine-jules-thomas-and-marie-farrell/?download=file&file=2748

Massive Berevement

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390092#Comment_119390092

Height was estimated at 5'8 rather than 5'10. She said her husband was 5'10 and the man she saw was smaller than that.

As another poster asked, has there ever been any mention of her husbands version of events that night? As in did he confirm she was out of the house for a few hours at ridiculous o'clock?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393850#Comment_119393850

5`10 in the original statement. It became 5`8 many years later when she was swinging to Bailey ahead of the libel trial and had "several meetings" with Frank Buttimer. But since you`ve raised it, it is clear that this is the only bit of Garda prompting that she alleges occurred whilst making her original statement. So everything else she said she stands over. She even repeated to the GSOC that the man on the Airhill Road was the same man who was outside her shop the previous day.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394209#Comment_119394209

Tibruit did you read the report linked by chooseusername below at all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392571#Comment_119392571

Massive Berevement

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394209#Comment_119394209

Lol have a look at 4.1.3.3. of that GSOC report. It's without doubt 5'8.

4.1.3.3 Marie Farrell stated that on 21 December 1996, Madame Toscan Du Plantier entered her

shop around 3pm. Around the same time, she alleged that she saw a male standing across

from her shop. She described the man as thin, sallow skin, late 30’s to early 40’s, 5’8” tall,

Mediterranean looking and wearing a long black coat. After Madame Toscan Du Plantier left

her shop, the male walked off in the same direction as her. Marie Farrell stated the man was

not Ian Bailey who at this time was unknown to her.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394784#Comment_119394784

That`s not the original statement. As far as I can see that`s a paraphrase of what she was saying in 2012. She could not state on December 27th 1996 that the man was not Ian Bailey when she didn`t even know who Bailey was.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392448#Comment_119392448

The undigested food found in her stomach could equally have been a late night snack consumed well before midnight. The fact that bloodstains on her body had dried or begun to dry suggests a much earlier time of death. At 8am or earlier dawn would have broken. There would be a slim chance somebody may have spotted something rather than if it were pitch dark. This might be an inhibiting factor against killing in the mind of a calculating killer with a murderous plan already in place but not in the mind of a deranged or enraged "accidental" killer with no prior murderous intent but in a highly emotional state and who acts on impulse.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395388#Comment_119395388

If you did read the report linked by 'Chooseusername', and still hang onto the coat tails of Maria Farrell, you are deluded.

I would be surprised if she could lie straight in bed.

The Guards investigating the murder were nothing short of corrupt gangsters. And even that's an insult to real gangsters.

Was Ireland like Somalia in the 1990's?? Was it really as lawless as described in the report? Could the upholders of the Law really pick and choose who goes to prison for life on a whim? Make the person fit the crime by whatever means.

Detectives supping whiskey in Maria Farrell's house, playing her video's of Bailey, telling her the gruesome details of the murder, and telling her it was Bailey that did it.. No wonder the suspect grew six inches, and lost his sallow complexion overnight.

This wasn't her first rodeo.. She fled from London with the fraud squad chasing after her (couldn't make it up).

The Guards needed a simpleton not adverse to a few shenanigans, one that would sell her Mother for a shilling, enter the UK fugitive Maria Farrell. So easy to manipulate her.

Like the dropping of charges against her Husband... This is Mafia territory!

What about witholding information.... Did the keystone cops not consider that line of approach to get Farrell to name the alleged second witness in the car with her that night? (it was a brutal murder after all)

Or was it easier to keep her sweet, arrange a new house for her... (Can't believe I'm writing this even)

It truly is a shocking document to read.

The Guards were every bit as bad as Maria, No wonder pages were ripped out of the jobs book..

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396141#Comment_119396141

Bailey does have a sallow complexion. The only part of the description that didn`t fit him was the height. I don`t hang on Farrells coat tails at all. I can read her like a book. She was a nobody who suddenly was cast into the limelight. I have said here before that I suspect she was in her bed on the night of the murder. I suspect that she got excited by her sudden importance and decided to rev it all up a bit more as Fiona. She enjoys the attention. Like Bailey she probably checks this thread regularly to see what we are saying about her.

I don`t believe all she said about Bailey and I don`t believe all she says about Gardaí. But the fact remains that her first contact and statement has been reconciled with a number of facts. Some were probably established before December 27th, but some didn`t come to light until weeks later.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396141#Comment_119396141

It was the Ireland back then. What I've noticed back in the 90ies is that Ireland was still recovering from the brain drain the country has seen over centuries. Anybody with brains left to make it in America, in Australia or the UK and sadly not always the smartest stayed. ( I am sorry if this sounds offensive) And then in the late 90ies when the Celtic Tiger economy was roaring loud and strong, the lack of competence in Ireland was often overwhelming for the population to handle, but the solidity of the judicial system allowing secure foreign investments, these were my memories from back then. And in the South West of Ireland it was probably all more pronounced than in Dublin, or Cork.

Also, Sophie made the mistake of buying in the wrong neighbourhood. She didn't understand the society and the kind of characters in the area, had some romantic idea about Ireland, probably expected a police of a competence level like in France? Not certain. She thought she could trust people, trust the police, and expect telling a right from wrong, not knowing the the police was bent, neighbours had drug habits, etc...

As her husband bought the house, money was probably not the concern. Apparently she paid 60 K for the house back then, not certain, if that was overpaid, or if locals would have paid less? Sometimes this happens in some countries, wouldn't surprise me, if it didn't take place there.....

Regarding a property investment, I would never have bought there, as lovely as it is. I wouldn't have gone further west than Skibbereen, as Skibbereen has simply more value, more infrastructure and different neighbours than Goleen or Schull would ever have. And if I liked hiking in the outdoors and the wilderness there, I could always have driven there from Skibbereen to Mizen Head. Kinsale is also a nice choice, and again, money would probably not have been the prime concern of Sophie and Daniel.

The way the police handled the whole murder leads me to believe that the local police had certainly some direct or indirect involvement in her death. If she was killed by a guard who was drug trafficking and Sophie found out about it and complained, or the guards coerced Alfie or Leo to kill her, is all unclear.

The level of incompetence the police showed also has the trade mark of somebody of rather limited international experience and mind and no professionalism at all, but is prepared to go the distance and do whatever it takes. It's pretty obvious that they had ample motivation in doing so.... One simply doesn't lose evidence the size of a gate, or consort with ex soldiers with a drug habit and give them drugs and money to incriminate the wrong man, or coerce witnesses. Maybe they've gotten these fantasies from a cheap movie on TV or something.

If a bent cop actually really wanted to incriminate Bailey he would have done it with more brains and credibility.

flanna01

Maria Farrell stated that the neighbours thought she was having an affair with a Guard - A claim she vehemently denied (Oh well, that's that cleared up then)

But if she was messing around with a Guard, a senior Guard at that... It would explain her refusal to name him, and of course, the Guards reluctance to pressure her.

Where ever she goes, trouble isn't far behind her.

To think after all the controversy she had caused, you would expect her to stay under the radar. keep out of the public eye..? Instead of that, she hooks up with Bailey on the sniff of a pay out... Double crosses the Guards, blames them for making her write untrue statements... Confirms she never saw Bailey at all.... (this woman is class).

That libel action went south, so Maria moved on.. Nothing to be gained here.

Camera.. Action.. She rolls out for a documentary series!! This woman has absolutely no shame at all.

No doubt, many on here were excited about the cold case review being authorised.. New technology and all that.

How many more like me rolled their eyes when it was reported that the same Maria Farrell had identified the man outside her shop from some photographs, but this time it was definitely him.. A French national associated with Danial Du Plantier no less... Sweet Jaysis.. Here we go again!

OwlsZat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396812#Comment_119396812

Dermot Dwyer has no credibility. He believed the AGS incompetence in this case was normal. He also thought there was no church-state collusion when there was endemic of child sexual abuse by clergy in Ireland. He's just completely out of touch with reality.

"Of course, it doesn’t look good when a piece of evidence like a farmyard gate goes missing. Dwyer, though, makes the distinction between corruption, which inquiries have said wasn’t a factor, and incompetence, which he seems to suggest is the norm when you’re looking back over time at this type of case. Indeed, the whole true-crime genre is dependent, it would appear, upon police screwing up. "

https://www.irishecho.com/2021/12/murder-comes-to-schull

"Supt Dwyer's report recommended no charges be brought against the senior officers. It concluded there was no evidence of any Church-State collusion."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-10077022.html

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397469#Comment_119397469

I wasn`t aware that Dwyer inquired into that Wexford investigation. You were selective with your quotes. He was critical of the investigating Gardaí. It`s easy to look back now and judge people by todays standards but I remember Church representatives arguing in the media at the time that all of these issues should be dealt with by Cannon Law. My secondary education was primarily by priests and I had a better handle on the type of headcases that were operating under the cloth than a lot of people in rural parishes who thought their local priest could do no wrong. Rural society firstly struggled to accept what was going on and then struggled to come to terms with how it should have been dealt with. So did some Gardaí.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398526#Comment_119398526

Ireland back then was a different place and so were many countries.

Regarding the scene of the crime and the fact that no DNA was found there, I often thought somebody with access to evidence may have tampered with the samples collected and found, swapped the real ones for something completely "blank". Thus naturally everything came back negative from the lab, even if they've sent it onward to labs in the UK. A corrupt guard, for instance could have done that quite possibly with ease if he had the opportunity.

It's hard to imagine that in the case of a struggle and a fight there was absolutely no DNA, no fingerprints, etc.. found.

Given the fact that later on the police went to such length to pin the crime on Bailey, it wouldn't surprise me if that's what happened as well.

This behavior would certainly point in the direction of a Guard doing the killing.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399807#Comment_119399807

One possibility for why there is no DNA evidence is that there actually wasn`t much of a hand to hand struggle and that Sofie tried to run and was struck from behind by a long object. The block may have been used when she was incapacitated.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397469#Comment_119397469

The opinion of the "Irish Echo" would not carry much weight. The missing gate is mentioned here. It never went missing . It was taken to Dublin for forensic testing. A small bit of research by the author could have established that.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399924#Comment_119399924

The chief pathologist's report said that the cuts and bruises Sophie had on her body were consistent of that of a struggle. I'd say, if there is one thing credible, it's the pathologist. I don't think he could have been bent or at least it's hard to think, he was in it, with the local Guards in South West Ireland.

If there was any corruption and collusion it would have been on a local Guarda level. But that's just a hunch I have.

And any kind of struggle always raises the question, why the neighbours didn't hear a thing and absolutely no DNA was found. Something simply isn't right here.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400271#Comment_119400271

It did go missing. When GSOC investigated, the gate was missing - as in the Guards meant to be responsible for the chain of evidence couldn't account for it.

It was reported to GSOC that extensive searches had been carried out by An Garda Síochána for the missing items, which include:

• A blood-spattered gate taken from close to where Madame Toscan Du Plantier’s body was found.
• A French wine bottle found four months after the murder in a field next to the scene.
• A black overcoat belonging to Ian Bailey.
• The original memo of interview of Jules Thomas following her arrest in 1997.
• An original witness statement from Marie Farrell provided on 5 March 2004.
• An original witness statement from Jules Thomas dated 19 February 1997.

https://www.thejournal.ie/grave-concern-over-missing-evidence-in-du-plantier-murder-investigation-4161933-Aug2018/

chicorytip

The original witness statements, the bottle of wine and the black overcoat are missing. Yes, I agree, that is clear. As regards the gate, having obtained nothing of evidential value whatsoever from it, a decision was taken to dispose of it because it was talking up too much space in the Garda storage facility. Disposal,I presume, means either sold to a scrapyard or put up for auction like many of the items seized by the Gardai are. It would be surprising to me if records of such transactions were even made, let alone kept on file somewhere.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399924#Comment_119399924

OR, any DNA , finger marks, footprints, tyre tracks etc. were expected to be there? Like someone who visited in the days immediately before the murder, or someone around the scene immediately afterwards but before the forensics team arrived. Think outside the box, ie. not Alfie, Shirley.

OwlsZat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400743#Comment_119400743

When something is missing it means that it's unaccounted for.

If something is discarded from evidence it's written up. In this case, the gate wasn't written up hence why GSOC listed it as missing.

It's another example of extreme negligence or maybe something more sinister. I actually assume it's the former but I could see why people would be implicating AGS themselves given the number of mishaps.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400811#Comment_119400811

That`s supposition that isn`t supported by anything in the public domain.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401007#Comment_119401007

Plenty information in the public domain,

as I said think outside the box.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401033#Comment_119401033

Whose DNA was found and discounted because they were known to have been around the scene?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401047#Comment_119401047

As I said it's in the public domain, and I think you know enough about the case to realise who were known to be around the scene.

I don't know if DNA was found and discounted, but it's a possibility.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396091#Comment_119396091

The undigested food found in her stomach could equally have been a late night snack consumed well before midnight

Harbison’s autopsy noted that the remains of a recently ingested meal of fruit and nuts were found in du Plantier’s stomach.

This is more indicative of breakfast than of an evening meal.

An uncovered loaf of bread in the process of being sliced was also found in the kitchen.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410150#Comment_119410150

The meal had been eaten at least a couple of hours before she died according to Harbison

Some say she was eating when she was disturbed, but the crockery and cutlery had been cleared away and washed.

Although there was a washed coffee pot and cup on the drainer, and a teacup on the table I can’t recall any report of tea or coffee in her system.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410150#Comment_119410150

It was her last day in Ireland. She would have flown to France later on. This means she most likely would be following a schedule on that day, last preparations for leaving. This could easily have meant she'd gotten up early, eaten breakfast early and cleaned up the house.

Yes the food she'd eaten would point towards a morning killing. I'd suggest whoever killed her, possibly came by appointment. This would mean, somebody whom she spoken to over the phone? One of the phone numbers she called or received during her stay in Ireland was quite possibly the killer.

Suppose Alfie and Shirley were honest in their statement and really didn't hear anything then the killer may have hit Sophie unexpected and unannounced, and she collapsed without any noise? Then the killer must have known something about killing and how to administer a blow without the victim making any noise. The killer could then have made the cuts and bruises on Sophie, returned to the house, took the diary and left the scene......

flanna01

Does anybody remember the photo's of the bloodied gate?

The pictures shown the gate to be splattered (apparently) with Sophie's blood?

So what can we deduce from this? Well it depends if the gate was open or shut really??

Sophie was adamant that the gate be closed at all times, and this request had caused some friction in the past with Alfie & Shirley..

So lets assume that it was in the closed position that night... Sophie would surely have closed it before turning in for the night?

We know that only Sophie's blood was identified on the gate..

Would that not follow the theory that an already injured, bloodied Sophie was trying to either pull open the gate to make her escape, or climb over the gate to get away from her would be murderer..???

The murderer then pulled her by the hair back towards the passage, with the flailing Sophie pulling her own hair to try and release his grip on her (note - clumps of her own hair found on her hands / nails)

Maybe she stumbled into the briars in desperation at this point?

The murderer bends down to pick up a rock that may have been used to prop the gate open, and as the struggling Sophie tries to free herself from the briars, the first meaningful blow is delivered?

Of course this only makes sense if the gate was in the closed position that night / morning?

Her body was discovered several feet back from the gate to the right hand side, so why was there blood stains on several of the gates horizontal bars? She was obviously in close contact with the gate whilst injured.. Did the cuts from the briars occur before of after contact with the gate?

Note - If the gate was closed.. The killer was already on site at the time of her demise.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412057#Comment_119412057

The gate would have been closed, if nobody was visiting at all, I'd say.

Would anybody visiting, even just a fleeting visit, have closed the gate behind him, and driven up to the house? Even if the visit was planned and coordinated with Sophie, Sophie would hardly have insisted or argued with a visitor on closing the gate again?

The thing is, if the killer was driving or hiking on foot to Sophie's to either meet her, or to kill her, he would hardly have closed the gate behind him. He wanted to escape and leave as quickly as possible, at least that's a plausible thought.

If the killer parked the car further away from the house, then hiked up to Sophie's it would also point more to a planned killing as the car wouldn't be seen at Sophie's house? Or not? When Shirley drove past, the gates were open, I think?