Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532750#Comment_119532750

They are referring to Paris Match magazine and an old article that quoted an investigating garda who said the doors were locked and the lights were off.

saabsaab

So the door locked and lights out? Would Sophie have locked the door behind her after going out to talk/argue with someone? I doubt it. Also if she turned the lights out it would indicate a time after 8.00 or so in the morning (seems unlikely). It would point to another turning off the lights and locking the doors at least. The blood on the handle would be consistant with them leaving the stain when locking the door.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119532978#Comment_119532978

As far as I know the front door, the one mostly used by Sophie, was closed but unlocked," on the latch" with bunch of housekeys in the lock.

The back door, the one with the blood smudge, was locked shut.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119533179#Comment_119533179

My understanding would always have been that a door on the latch was locked and off the latch was unlocked. However Google says on the latch means "closed and unlocked" as you say. So what source says it was "on the latch"?

There is no ambiguity about Twomey`s understanding of things in that Paris Match quote....."The door was locked, it would be impossible for anyone to re-enter as the keys were on the inside of the door."

it is third party source. MS quoting paris match who are quoting the garda

yesterday paper says Bailey former chief suspect

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535013#Comment_119535013

" So what source says it was "on the latch"?"

I'm going on the SOC photo below of the front door latch in the unlocked position, with the key in the lock turned and the slider pulled across.

front door.jpg

What would be the purpose of this photo if not to show the position in which the lock was found?

If both doors were locked how did the Gardaí gain entry? It's reported they "made contact with" Josie Hellen. Josie and her husband turned up at scene separately around noon. They hardly waited around until then to check out the house. I don't know what time Twomey arrived at the scene, or if the first Gardaí at the scene had gained entry by the time he arrived. It would make this information 3rd or 4th hand as April said above. I think the photo of the latch is a more reliable source.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536293#Comment_119536293

So you are just making assumptions based on a photo that was taken of a door that had probably been the main route in and out of the house by investigators after the murder. The photographer may not have even thought to ask what position the lock was in after the murder. The intention may have been to show that the door hadn`t been forced, where the keys were, to show there was no blood on the inside of the door etc. Who knows.

Your assumption is based on the same type of circumstances that has a number of contributors here obsessing about Alfie and Shirley, coming up with all sorts of weird and wonderful scenarios about how they could have done it, rather than just accepting that if all of the facts known to the Gardaí were in the public domain, it would then be much clearer as to why they were excluded as suspects in the first place.

chooseusername

What are you on about?

Who said anything about Alfie and Shirley?

You are assuming the door lock was staged for the photo, but accidentally put in unlocked mode.

Ok

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536293#Comment_119536293

As far as I know is that the house had at least two entrances, one facing West and Alfie and Shirley's property, and one facing South, facing the field in front of the house. Upon discovery of the murder, is it known, if these doors were locked or ajar, or just closed? Also, wasn't there also a report of somebody having walked through the field in front of the house to the house?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119537342#Comment_119537342

A senior investigating garda has publicly stated that the house was locked and couldn`t be re-entered and you question this with a highly ambiguous photo. Work away so.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541179#Comment_119541179

You'd wonder how ambiguous all the other photos are so,

maybe they washed up the dishes and tidied up around the kitchen for those photos?

nc6000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541698#Comment_119541698

There was a rumour a while ago that the kitchen had been tidied up by a Garda.

Wombatman

Frustrating to think if it happened tomorrow morning it would be an open and shut case because of modern policing and evidence processing methodologies.

Wombatman

We need another pod cast........

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/aug/30/the-teachers-pet-hit-podcast-thrust-a-spotlight-on-lynette-dawsons-1982-disappearance

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541753#Comment_119541753

Nah, I wouldn’t believe that,

I was just poking fun at @tibruit ’s post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541179#Comment_119541179

I think Gilligan speaks about the door/lock and there are pictures of it in Sheridan's doc. i cannot remember what he says

chooseusername

Senan Moloney at it again;

He's like a dog with a bone.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/sophie-toscan-du-plantier-witness-claims-ian-bailey-told-her-i-was-washing-the-blood-off-my-clothes-41959737.html

Now elderly, one of the last people to see her alive, still lives in the area, travelled the Kealfada road regularly.

Who could it be I wonder?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569044#Comment_119569044

"He said he had got up out of bed to do some work on an article and he went out. `That must have been the time they saw me` he said."

Question.......How could he acknowledge that someone must have seen him if he only walked from the cottage to the studio and no further?

jimwallace197

Another one of these so called witnesses, when you go around the community telling everyone this man did it & you're in a position of authority, no surprise you get some of them coming up with this stuff.

“I am sure that he told me at the beginning that he had met her. He also said to me that he saw her on the ferry to Cape Clear Island.” First of all, she doesnt even sound 100% in what shes saying, secondly, why on earth would he say anything like that to her. Finally, why so little detail about this elderly woman, whats her relationship to Bailey, whats her own background?? etc etc. More guff from that tabloid level journalist if you can call him that.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569870#Comment_119569870

Ah yeah, the old "so called witnesses". Such a pain. It would be lovely if they could all just go away and stop interfering with the old fantasies about corrupt gards, their conspiracies and their cover-ups. Nothing worse than some "so called witness" coming out of the woodwork 25 years later to show that they still stand by everything they said at the time.

"I am sure that he told me".....sounds like 100% to me.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569945#Comment_119569945

Where was she for the last 25 years? In a convent under a vow of silence?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569994#Comment_119569994

I don`t understand the point you are making. She made statements back then and she has given interviews in the meantime.

Witness claims Bailey did not deny being seen near Toscan du Plantier murder scene – The Irish Times

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570023#Comment_119570023

Then why are they "crawling out of the woodwork" now if all their evidence was assessed at the time.

Whats new?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570060#Comment_119570060

So many witnesses that the conspiracy theorists would have you believe must have made their statements under the influence of corrupt Gardaí. Only Marie Farrell has withdrawn what she initially said and her withdrawal is problematic for her because there is little doubt that the man she saw in sighting number two was indeed Bailey and she still maintains it was the same man that she saw in all three sightings.

What`s new is confirmation that what was stated twenty five years ago still stands today.

So how could he say that someone must have seen him if he only popped out to the studio?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570251#Comment_119570251

Cos he didn't say that. Or if he did say it, it's one of those dark humour sarcastic remarks to people badgering him about the murder, like the nonsense fake 'confession'. Why on earth would he say it, if he really had done it? The whole thing is nonsense.

And the entire nonsense about who Marie Farrell saw and her magic ability to spot people on the side of the road from a car at night but to get someone's height completely wrong in broad daylight. It's obvious you will believe anything no matter how ridiculous that points to Bailey.

flanna01

As the good Boris Johnson would say...

Piffle! Load of old Piffle..!

I am not suggesting for one minute that the elderly witness is mistaken, and for the point of this exercise, lets just assume she's 100% certain in her own mind.. let's assume her statement / memory is still intact.

Realistically, it would be laughed out of court.. The Gards didn't make anything of it 25yrs ago, there's nothing going to be made of it now.

To move this investigation forward, they will need something more substantial than that.

I've nothing against the old Dear, she may well be telling the truth, but it means diddley squat!

Ian Bailey: ''I must have been washing the blood off my clothes at that time'' - That's typical Ian Bailey dark humor, you can imagine his saying it even... Akin to him confessing to having a good weekend, apart from smashing the brains out of that french woman with a rock.... Not politically correct... But certainly Ian Bailey lingo.

Evergreen_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569044#Comment_119569044

Yvonne ungerer.

Evergreen_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570060#Comment_119570060

I don’t think there’s anything new, more that she stands by her original statements.

its still a non-news item really.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569870#Comment_119569870

It only shows the mindset and intellectual level of some people.

Suppose Bailey decided to go swimming in the middle of the night, in winter, didn't mind the weather nor the icy cold water, and it still doesn't prove murder at all.

Or suppose Bailey decided to take a hike during the night all the way to Mizen Head.

Or Bailey seen in a dark alley days before or after the murder talking to some shady figure in a dark coat and dark glasses.

It all doesn't prove murder.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570308#Comment_119570308

Of course he said it. You and others here just want to ignore the bits that conflict with your agenda.

I know that the man that Marie saw on the Airhill Road was almost certainly Bailey, which means the man outside her shop (who she maintains was the same man) was Bailey, which renders any attempt she made to guess his height of no consequence. The question I would think is important is what was Bailey doing loitering outside Marie`s shop while Sophie was inside and why did he walk up the street after her when she left?