Wimbledon 2021 Monday, June 28 - Sunday, July 11 2021

klr87

Augme wrote: »

Sasnovich bumping the ball right back to Serena who can't move is the dumbest thing I have seen.

Sasnovich can indeed be very dumb on the court at times, but she was working out where to hit it, and how much Serena could move. She won the first point after the MTO with a drop shot. Serena's next service game was always going to be the acid test though.

Augme

The slip didn't even look bad at all. A horrible way for anyone to go out.

klr87

Augme wrote: »

The slip didn't even look bad at all. A horrible way for anyone to go out.

That was my thought as well. She very likely came into the match far from fit and healthy. TBH, she looked overweight (no point in tip-toeing around this), and that may have aggravated matters still further.

HeidiHeidi

Can anyone explain the rules when a call is challenged, and the point gets/ doesn't get replayed??

Cam Norrie had a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and he got the point.

Next game, Pouille has a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and the point was replayed.

klr87

Andy Murray will play Oscar Otte in the next round. Otte finally won his match 13-12 in the fifth, which sounds exactly like the scenario the tie-break at 12-12 was designed for. Who knows how long that would have gone on for?

15th seed Alex De Minaur - winner at Eastbourne on Saturday - was beaten by Sebastian Korda, who is obviously a chip off the old block. This just two days after sister Nelly won the women's US PGA.

Benoit Paire is heading for a big fine (and maybe more) after showing lack of effort in a straight sets loss to Diego Schwartzman (someone who will never be accused of lack of effort). The fact that umpire Mohamed Lahyani called Paire out on it means he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/57658244

Joe_ Public

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Can anyone explain the rules when a call is challenged, and the point gets/ doesn't get replayed??

Cam Norrie had a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and he got the point.

Next game, Pouille has a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and the point was replayed.

Without seeing it, I'd have to assume first instance was a clear ace, or opponent had no chance of returning it, while in latter case, opponent could have played the return if it hadn't been called out. That's the distinction, i think.

klr87

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Can anyone explain the rules when a call is challenged, and the point gets/ doesn't get replayed??

Cam Norrie had a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and he got the point.

Next game, Pouille has a serve called out, challenged the call, serve was in and the point was replayed.

Didn't see either point, but presumably Pouille was not affected by the call on Norrie's serve, while Norrie was deemed to have been affected by the call on Pouille's serve.

sxt

klr87 wrote: »

That was my thought as well. She very likely came into the match far from fit and healthy. TBH, she looked overweight (no point in tip-toeing around this), and that may have aggravated matters still further.

Serena weights 15 stone. Remarkable that That's only about 7 ilbs less than a prime heavyweight Mike Tyson. She probably was even heavier than that this week

I can't see how she can get anywhere near a quarters or a semis in a major again. No top 20 player has any fear of her anymore. She can't intimidate anyone with her screaming anymore

HeidiHeidi

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Without seeing it, I'd have to assume first instance was a clear ace, or opponent had no chance of returning it, while in latter case, opponent could have played the return if it hadn't been called out. That's the distinction, i think.

klr87 wrote: »

Didn't see either point, but presumably Pouille was not affected by the call on Norrie's serve, while Norrie was deemed to have been affected by the call on Pouille's serve.

I've just re-watched both points.


Both points were similar - serve, return was hit, call came (the call on Pouille's serve was a split second later than the call on Norrie's serve), server challenged the call.



If anything, Pouille was more disadvantaged as he was lining up to play the return of his serve when the late(r) call came - yet Norrie got the point, and Pouille had to replay his.


I know without having seen the points it's very hard to describe properly. I've always been a bit unclear about when points are replayed or awarded, but I'm genuinely perplexed by two such similar points being differently treated!

mzungu

That's a real shame to see Serena retire due to injury.

A very slow start for Fed. One would hope he can improve.

gmisk

mzungu wrote: »

That's a real to see Serena retire due to injury.

A very slow start for Fed. One would hope he can improve.

I can't see him going to deep based on that performance, I think age has finally caught up with him a bit.

klr87

sxt wrote: »

Serena weights 15 stone. Remarkable that That's only about 7 ilbs less than a prime heavyweight Mike Tyson. She probably was even heavier than that this week

I can't see how she can get anywhere near a quarters or a semis in a major again. No top 20 player has any fear of her anymore. She can't intimidate anyone with her screaming anymore

Serena reached the semi-finals of the last two hard court slams, so clearly she still has what it takes to go a long way - if things go well for her. That's an increasingly big "if" though. More and more players (not just top 20) don't fear her. In the last 12 months, she's lost completed matches to Shelby Rogers, Maria Sakkari, Victoria Azarenka, Naomi Osaka, Nadia Podoroska, Katerina Siniakova and Elena Rybakina. Quite a diverse bunch in terms of rankings and careers. And she's played a very limited schedule.

Her body is also increasingly prone to breakdown (no need to list all her retirements and walkovers conceded over the last couple of years). Also, the way she reacted after her losses in the Australian and French this year suggests she might retire after the US Open, regardless of how she gets on there.

One other thing: Serena was defending a lot of points from her runner-up performance in the 2019 Wimbledon, there being no event last year. Having lost 1st round, She's now dropped to 16th in the live rankings, and will likely fall further by the time of the US Open. This should make for a harder path through the draw, in theory anyway.

Girly Gal

mzungu wrote: »

That's a real to see Serena retire due to injury.

A very slow start for Fed. One would hope he can improve.

Not sorry to see Serena out, unfortunate injury, but, at least it saves us all from her drama Queen antics when things start going against her.
Federer is playing Gasquet next, so not exactly an easy match for him considering his form. Gasquet a bit like a lot of the French players very talented, but, never really reached his potential, has a very poor record against Federer, but, will probably not get a better opportunity to beat him, wouldn't be at all surprised to see Gasquet win that.

Rob2D

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I've always been a bit unclear about when points are replayed or awarded, but I'm genuinely perplexed by two such similar points being differently treated!

Depends if the guy has a play on it or not when the call happens. If what you say happened and both returns were RETURNED properly at the moment the call came then they should both be replays AFAIK.

klr87 wrote: »

Alex De Minaur - winner at Eastbourne on Saturday - was beaten by Sebastian Korda, who is obviously a chip off the old block.

Been watching him and he's the most promising of the youngsters. And I include the next gen in that. Hopefully he can restore some honour to the family name.

Augme

The kyrios vs Humbert match seems to be the highlight of the first round. Was always going to be a good one, I don't k ow why it wasn't shown placed on one of the main courts.

whiterebel

Musetti gone early to Hurcasz. Its a pity, I thought he might have the game for grass

klr87

Re Murray's match against Otto tomorrow: I'd forgotten that Otto was 2 sets up against Zverev in the French Open only a few weeks ago!

By my count, 21 of the 64 matches in the men's first round have yet to start, 6 more are in progress. It's about the same for the women, but there's no problem playing best of 3 several days in a row. The forecast is apparently good for the next few days, and then bad again for the weekend. If they need to use the middle Sunday to catch up, would they even be able to?

whiterebel

whiterebel wrote: »

Musetti gone early to Hurcasz. Its a pity, I thought he might have the game for grass

Pretty hard when he's never played any grass tournaments ever before.

Floppybits

klr87 wrote: »

Andy Murray will play Oscar Otte in the next round. Otte finally won his match 13-12 in the fifth, which sounds exactly like the scenario the tie-break at 12-12 was designed for. Who knows how long that would have gone on for?

15th seed Alex De Minaur - winner at Eastbourne on Saturday - was beaten by Sebastian Korda, who is obviously a chip off the old block. This just two days after sister Nelly won the women's US PGA.

Benoit Paire is heading for a big fine (and maybe more) after showing lack of effort in a straight sets loss to Diego Schwartzman (someone who will never be accused of lack of effort). The fact that umpire Mohamed Lahyani called Paire out on it means he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/57658244

What is the story with Paire? This is not the first time he has done this. If he doesn't want to be there then just withdraw

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

What is the story with Paire? This is not the first time he has done this. If he doesn't want to be there then just withdraw

certainly he doesn't seem to be too focused on tennis at the moment with particular gripes about the bubble but at least he put up resistance in the first 2 sets (6-3, 6-4) and not sure how it's worse as a spectacle than the multiple 49 minutes (Sakkari vs Rus) to 1 hour couple minute matches seen on the ladies side in the first round.

klr87

glasso wrote: »

certainly he doesn't seem to be too focused on tennis at the moment with particular gripes about the bubble but at least he put up resistance in the first 2 sets (6-3, 6-4) and not sure how it's worse as a spectacle than the multiple 49 minutes (Sakkari vs Rus) to 1 hour couple minute matches seen on the ladies side in the first round.

It's not a question of whether a particular match was a spectacle or a contest. If it were, then on the men's side, countless opponents of the Big 3 over the years could have been fined for losing heavily. Likewise many opponents of (say) Serena Williams during her really dominant years. Paire may (should) get into trouble because he visibly gave up when he was a set from defeat.

I looked at the details of that Sakkari-Rus match, and of their two previous meetings, both of which Sakkari also won in straight sets (clay in Istanbul, medium-speed hard court in Miami). Basically, the faster the surface, the more Sakkari dominates, because of her much superior serve. Rus couldn't get a look-in on the Sakkari serve yesterday, but was much more competitive on her own serve, in terms of points won at least. On clay, she won the majority of points on her serve, and made inroads into the Sakkari serve, but not quite enough.

It bears out what I said a couple of days ago, about many women not getting many easy games on their own serve. Where neither player has a dominant serve in an even match-up, then literally every point counts, and that's where the longest and most tiring women's matches come from. That can happen as much as Wimbledon as anywhere else, as there are many women without "big" serves. Already in the women's draw, there's been an 11-9 third set, a 10-8, a 9-7 and an 8-6, and the first round isn't completed yet.

I remember a match at the 2015 US Open, where Federer beat Kohlschreiber 6-3 6-4 6-4, but scored only 5 points more overall. Yet he was always in clear control of the match.

Rob2D

Floppybits wrote: »

What is the story with Paire? This is not the first time he has done this. If he doesn't want to be there then just withdraw

What I don't understand is how he keeps getting admitted to tournaments.

whiterebel

I love watching Paire when he's interested and playing, as he is very entertaining. If he doesn't want to play he should let someone else have his place. Kyrgios very unhappy with how slow the grass is playing. I wonder if it's a combination of this and how slippy it is underfoot that has affected ND and Fed in their matches. Fed seems to go completely off the boil in the 2nd and 3rd set. We''ll see how bad it is for ND, he's walking out now. Berrettini just gone through in 4 as well.

Hector Savage

Floppybits wrote: »

What is the story with Paire? This is not the first time he has done this. If he doesn't want to be there then just withdraw

He's just counting his millions with Tomic

Rob2D

Rob2D wrote: »

What I don't understand is how he keeps getting admitted to tournaments.

he won't when his ranking slips down outside the range for application

the top ranked 104 players who apply get in (so if 56 doesn't apply then 105 gets in if applies etc)

his ranking of 46 is easily enough to get him into the GS tournaments taking into account that there are 128 players in the first round

klr87

klr87 wrote: »

It's not a question of whether a particular match was a spectacle or a contest. If it were, then on the men's side, countless opponents of the Big 3 over the years could have been fined for losing heavily. Likewise many opponents of (say) Serena Williams during her really dominant years. Paire may (should) get into trouble because he visibly gave up when he was a set from defeat.

I looked at the details of that Sakkari-Rus match, and of their two previous meetings, both of which Sakkari also won in straight sets (clay in Istanbul, medium-speed hard court in Miami). Basically, the faster the surface, the more Sakkari dominates, because of her much superior serve. Rus couldn't get a look-in on the Sakkari serve yesterday, but was much more competitive on her own serve, in terms of points won at least. On clay, she won the majority of points on her serve, and made inroads into the Sakkari serve, but not quite enough.

It bears out what I said a couple of days ago, about many women not getting many easy games on their own serve. Where neither player has a dominant serve in an even match-up, then literally every point counts, and that's where the longest and most tiring women's matches come from. That can happen as much as Wimbledon as anywhere else, as there are many women without "big" serves. Already in the women's draw, there's been an 11-9 third set, a 10-8, a 9-7 and an 8-6, and the first round isn't completed yet.

I remember a match at the 2015 US Open, where Federer beat Kohlschreiber 6-3 6-4 6-4, but scored only 5 points more overall. Yet he was always in clear control of the match.

indeed but I'd rather watch that than the Sakkari-Rus effective walkover

Rob2D

glasso wrote: »

his ranking of 46 is easily enough to get him into the GS tournaments taking into account that there are 128 players in the first round

Yeah but I mean if I was a tournament director I'd just say no. He's not gonna come here and waste our time. Surely they have some kind of right to refuse admission or whatever.

Floppybits

A 5 setter for Kyrgios if he comes through this it will test his fitness. Imagine what a force he would be if put in 50% more effort off the court.

Hector Savage

Floppybits wrote: »

A 5 setter for Kyrgios if he comes through this it will test his fitness. Imagine what a force he would be if put in 50% more effort off the court.

He was saying earlier how he fancied a beer ....

yerwanthere123

Grr, have to endure Kyrgios for another couple of rounds or so. Although one small tiny saving grace of the pandemic is not having to see his weird family bouncing up and down in the players box.

gmisk

Possible huge upset in woman's side of things.
Katie Boulter has taken the first set against Sabalenka.
World number 219 versus, world number 4 and number 2 seed

yerwanthere123

Not sure it'd be that big of an upset tbh, Sabalenka always finds a way to lose at the slams.

Joe_ Public

She has some power, but not sure what else. Not much finesse and you get the feeling she's on verge of exploding on just about every point.

Pity Kyrgios and Djokovic are not in a similar part of the draw.

Would have been fun to see Djokovic crush him with Kyrgios losing the plot mid-match especially given Kyrgios called Djokovic "a tool" earlier this year.

Talk about pot, kettle, Messier 87 supermassive black hole

yerwanthere123

Yes, I can't stand Djokovic but I can't wait for him to rip Kyrgios a new asshole next time they play. Kyrgios still proudly clings to his 2-0 h2h, despite the fact that they haven't played in over four years and Nick never makes it far enough in most draws to play Djokovic.

Hector Savage

Whats with the link to M87 ?

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Whats with the link to M87 ?

It's a supermassive black hole

pot kettle black

Krygios - asshole

yerwanthere123

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Yes, I can't stand Djokovic but I can't wait for him to rip Kyrgios a new asshole next time they play. Kyrgios still proudly clings to his 2-0 h2h, despite the fact that they haven't played in over four years and Nick never makes it far enough in most draws to play Djokovic.

both wins coming during Djokovic's martial issues / meltdown / injury hiatus period when he fell to 22 in the world

Augme

Another medical time out the rescue.

yerwanthere123

Well I wouldn't asterisk the wins either, Kyrgios is always up for a crack at a top player. But needless to say if they were bumping into each other more often then I think Djokovic would have him figured out pretty quickly.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Possible huge upset in woman's side of things.
Katie Boulter has taken the first set against Sabalenka.
World number 219 versus, world number 4 and number 2 seed

Sabalenka came back to win 6-3 in third...Boulter missed so so many break points at 3-4 (I think I counted 5)

Sabalenka not impressive at all to me for a second seed

Evans pretty comfortable so far against Lajovic

HeidiHeidi

Murray down a break in the second set.... have a feeling he might be running out of steam a bit.

If the German holds his nerve, I'd very much fancy him for this match.

klr87

glasso wrote: »

indeed but I'd rather watch that than the Sakkari-Rus effective walkover

I would as well, but given a choice, I'd much rather watch some other match that was genuinely competitive, regardless of who it involved. Which is what I normally do in the early stages of any big event. Only if there's some concern about the form or fitness of one of the Big 3, or if they unexpectedly run into trouble, would I switch to their match.

Augme

Very hard to see Andy winning a 5 setter here.

klr87

The "shocks" are beginning to materialise on the women's side, except some of them are not really shocks at all (such as Kenin and Andreescu losing). There is a case for Wimbledon applying a special seeding formula that rewards prowess on grass, the same way they do with the men. While the women's seedings can be manually adjusted, this is done very rarely, and only ever seems to happen "upwards": A player will get moved down a place in the seeding only because someone else leapfrogged over them.

klr87

Augme wrote: »

Very hard to see Andy winning a 5 setter here.

He's probably hoping the roof gets closed ASAP. It would give him time to regroup, and the change in conditions might suit him.

Augme

klr87 wrote: »

He's probably hoping the roof gets closed ASAP. It would give him time to regroup, and the change in conditions might suit him.

I would have thought so too but he seemed quite unhappy with the suggestion to close it at the end of the last set. You'd think the break would do him good. Like in the first round match.

klr87

Murray has a heavy fall, takes it where it really hurts.

klr87

Augme wrote: »

I would have thought so too but he seemed quite unhappy with the suggestion to close it at the end of the last set. You'd think the break would do him good. Like in the first round match.

Strange indeed. He may not have any choice though. Matches are being suspended for darkness on the outer courts, and there is less natural light on Centre Court, especially since the roof was installed.

klr87

... and at 2-2 in the 4th, the roof is indeed being closed.