Three men arrested after shocking incident involving bar staff on South William Stree

Strumms

Witcher wrote: »

There had just been a stabbing at the same scene, would you like to divert Gardai from searching for the offender and dealing with the injured party to lifting lads for public order matters?

A public order matter could lead to somebody else getting stabbed, assaulted etc...

If there is a stabbing 1 kilometer away from me, it’s fûck all use if 100% of garda resources in the area are diverted to it, even if that person is murdered. there is some weirdo trying to break into my place...could escalate into something on a par..

Witcher

Strumms wrote: »

A public order matter could lead to somebody else getting stabbed, assaulted etc...

If there is a stabbing 1 kilometer away from me, it’s fûck all use if 100% of garda resources in the area are diverted to it, even if that person is murdered. there is some weirdo trying to break into my place...could escalate into something on a par..

So we won't deal with the one that has just happened, we'll lift 2-3 lads max for public order and tie up the members dealing with that for an hour or two and your other stabbing, burglary etc is still missed as a result.

People don't seem to see there's a limited amount of cloth to be cut with policing, you can't lift every drunk cnut or you'll never get anything done. This is the reality of the numbers game going on in the Gardai. The Gardai have a set number of bodies for a shift given by the government, probably half of what it needs to be in some places and when they can't cover everything, is it the Government blamed...no the Gardai are.

The Gardai don't self replicate on the spot like, if a car is tied up for the night dealing with an incident..it's tied up and there's nobody to replace them in most cases so everything is on hold until they're finished or the next shift starts.

ShineOn7

From a poster on Reddit Ireland

Their account is 3 years old with over 11,000 karma (like Boards' thanks system), so they didn't just appear today

I was literally there today (St Stephens Green) around the same time, from where me and my friend were sitting we saw a girl get beat to the ground by a gang of other teens and then about 40 people circled around them chanting and cheering - truly insane

That's two incidents in St Stephens Green today alone and the second stabbing there this month alone

There was one two weeks ago too

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/gardai-rush-st-stephens-green-20722123

Strumms

What the actual fûck is going on with the amount of malevolent violence and bullying going on amongst teens and early 20 somethings ? It’s mental...

Donald Trump

ShineOn7 wrote: »

From a poster on Reddit Ireland

Their account is 3 years old with over 11,000 karma (like Boards' thanks system), so they didn't just appear today

I was literally there today (St Stephens Green) around the same time, from where me and my friend were sitting we saw a girl get beat to the ground by a gang of other teens and then about 40 people circled around them chanting and cheering - truly insane

It's quotes like that the really make me fear for the future of Irish society.






It's "my friend and I" not "me and my friend" for feck sake.








(bad attempt at a joke)

Strumms

enricoh wrote: »

Kopparberg a mate of mine was stopped near the quays last week. A cop came over and check ed the discs on the windscreen. Right beside him a junkie was in a hoop with a needle in his hands. My mate pointed out yer man n the cop just breezed on!
I know plenty of capital cities have dodgy areas for addicts but I don't think I was ever in a country where they hung out in the main thoroughfares.

that is just shîte policing...

When a member of the Garda Siochana, sees a crime happening but instead prioritizes ‘checking’ tax and insurance.... then said crime is highlighted and they do SFA...

That’s why junkie fûckers think they can get away with whatever...

Because a ‘member’ in their judgement want to check tax and insurance over intervening in an actual crime, happening in front of their eyes....

Witcher

Strumms wrote: »

that is just shîte policing...

When a member of the Garda Siochana, sees a crime happening but instead prioritizes ‘checking’ tax and insurance.... then said crime is highlighted and they do SFA...

That’s why junkie fûckers think they can get away with whatever...

Because a ‘member’ in their judgement want to check tax and insurance over intervening in an actual crime, happening in front of their eyes....

What crime?

It's not an offence for a junkie to be passed out with a needle in their hand.

Witcher

Witcher wrote: »

What crime?

It's not an offence for a junkie to be passed out with a needle in their hand.

So drug use and possession of drugs isn't a crime? News to me.

What the actual ****!! Are you for real??

Ninthlife

Witcher wrote: »

What crime?

It's not an offence for a junkie to be passed out with a needle in their hand.

Come on..really??

This is the problem..comments or attitudes like this

Zero tolerance. Obvious junkie passed out with a needle..under the influence in a public space..haul him/her off...charge/fine/detain but get them the f*ck off the streets

Witcher

Northernlily wrote: »

So drug use and possession of drugs isn't a crime? News to me.

What the actual ****!!

Drug use is not a crime, the possession of it is and if it's been injected there is no substance to test. You can't submit a blood contaminated syringe for testing for trace elements of a prohibited substance.

suicide_circus

Witcher wrote: »

Drug use is not a crime, the possession of it is and if it's been injected there is no substance to test. You can't submit a blood contaminated syringe for testing for trace elements of a prohibited substance.

So a citizen passed out in public place is not worthy of garda assistance?

Witcher

suicide_circus wrote: »

So a citizen passed out in public place is not worthy of garda assistance?

It's not a crime to be passed out. It's not an offence. If they're in need of assistance then call an ambulance; it's not a criminal matter.

It's an offence to be intoxicated and a danger to yourself or others but if the lad's just sitting in a corner on a high, you can't lift them for it, it would be pointless and would be withdrawn or struck out the first day before the courts...who are they endangering? If you're saying they're a danger to themself and you believe they need assistance...then maybe consider calling them an ambulance because that's all that would happen when they're brought to a station anyway. There's no offence for a Garda to prosecute in these circumstances going on the information given.

What people think are offences and what are actually offences are often two different things and is one of the difficulties for the Gardai when they're lectured by a member of the public on what they should be doing when there is actually no power to do what they're being asked.

Witcher

Witcher wrote: »

Drug use is not a crime, the possession of it is and if it's been injected there is no substance to test. You can't submit a blood contaminated syringe for testing for trace elements of a prohibited substance.

Well then it's disorderly conduct to the scenario cited. Surely there is something they can take a strung out junkie in for. The needle itself is dangerous.

suicide_circus

Do you reckon the garda should have halted his tax disc checks and checked on the incapacitated person?

Ninthlife

Witcher wrote: »

It's not a crime to be passed out. It's not an offence. If they're in need of assistance then call an ambulance; it's not a criminal matter.

It's an offence to be intoxicated and a danger to yourself or others but if the lad's just sitting in a corner on a high, you can't lift them for it, it would be pointless and would be withdrawn or struck out the first day before the courts...who are they endangering? If you're saying they're a danger to themself and you believe they need assistance...then maybe consider calling them an ambulance because that's all that would happen when they're brought to a station anyway. There's no offence for a Garda to prosecute in these circumstances going on the information given.

What people think are offences and what are actually offences are often two different things and is one of the difficulties for the Gardai when they're lectured by a member of the public on what they should be doing when there is actually no power to do what they're being asked.

The Garda can intervene and arrest them should he wish but that doesnt mean it has to go to prosecution

If youre banging up in the city youll be arrested is the message, goofin out = arrested, acting like a zombie **** annoying people drinking/dining = arrested.

No excuses, zero tolerance

Witcher

Northernlily wrote: »

Well then it's disorderly conduct to the scenario cited. Surely there is something they can take a strung out junkie in for. The needle itself is dangerous.

It's not an offence to sinply possess a needle, they giving them out at needle exchanges in the city like. If you're threatening someone with it then yes there is a specific offence for a needle but to just have it isn't.

The issue here is that people's expectations and the Gardai's capacity to meet these expectations are incompatible. Lifting drug users for being KO'd on a high is a complete waste of Garda time quite frqnkly, you'd be inventing a watery intoxication offence, arresting them and then probably having them collected from a station in an ambulance if they're that bad.

The issue is with the supports around the taking of drugs around the city, if there are going to be needle exchanges facilitated by Merchant Quay Ireland etc. then they need to have supports in place for drug users when the above happens. Giving them needles and sending them off out the door is creating an issue and then the public expects the Gardai, ambulance service etc. to sweep up after it.

Witcher

Ninthlife wrote: »

The Garda can intervene and arrest them should he wish but that doesnt mean it has to go to prosecution

If youre banging up in the city youll be arrested is the message, goofin out = arrested, acting like a zombie **** annoying people drinking/dining = arrested.

No excuses, zero tolerance

Of course they have to be prosecuted...that's how the system works. If they're getting arrested for being a danger to themselves or others (which from the information given they'e not) they'll either be before the courts or issued an €80 fine which they won't pay anyway because they possibly have no address to receive the fine at and they'll end up in court anyway.

The Gardai aren't running a babysitting service...arrest is the first step in the process of prosecution for an offence. If a person is found ko'd from drug use qnd the Gardai arrive 90% of the time an ambulance will be called because 1. It's not an offence to simply be under the influence and 2. If they're in that bad of a state that they're flat out..a Garda station isn't the place for them and medical attention will be sought.

With everything that is going on, the scene is set for a party to take up a "law and order" position on all of this.

All I hear are crickets though.

Ninthlife

Witcher wrote: »

Of course they have to be prosecuted...that's how the system works. If they're getting arrested for being a danger to themselves or others (which from the infornation given they'e not) they'll either be before the courts or issued an €80 fine which they won't pay anyway and they'll end up in court anyway.

The Gardai aren't running a babysitting service...arrest is the first step in the process of prosecution for an offence. If a person is found ko'd from drug use qnd the Gardai arrive 90% of the time an ambulance will be called because 1. It's not an offence to simply be under the influence and 2. If they're in that bad of a state that they're flat out..a Garda station isn't the place for them.

Arrest is the first step then its the decision to charge you with a specific offence..

Arrest bring to station and from there either transfer to hospital or to a facility like Merchants Quay who if handing out needles etc should have facilities for the users to goof out in.

The current system/process needs to change

In the UK, drunks arrested all the time, night in the cell, next morning they receive a fine and told to go home

Witcher

Ninthlife wrote: »

Arrest is the first step then its the decision to charge you with a specific offence..

Arrest bring to station and from there either transfer to hospital or to a facility like Merchants Quay who if handing out needles etc should have facilities for the users to goof out in.

The current system/process needs to change

In the UK, drunks arrested all the time, night in the cell, next morning they receive a fine and told to go home

Why not just call the ambulance at scene? Why tie up two Gardai, a vehicle to transport them, a cell in the station and a Garda to supervise them in the station until an ambulance arrives? If you believe it's a welfare issue for this person summon them medical assistance. You're inventing a role for the Gardai here in what it essentially a healthcare matter. As I've said there isn't a criminal offence in the situation the poster described so if it's anything then it's a medical assistance matter.

It's the same process here as the UK but they have to meet the specific proofs of the offence...a lad just sitting in a corner pissed or on a high and not harming anyone isn't meeting the proofs of S4 public order offence and tbh the Gardai and the police in the UK shouldn't be a drying out service for drunks and drug users.

People are asking the Gardai to fix a societal issue here i.e. sustance abuse. The Gardai aren't a substance abuse support service, there are specific services that cover that role but their idea of supporting the problem is doleing out needles to enable drug use and sending people off out the door, but there's no follow up from them with drug users and as a result emergency services are left to look after them.

Ninthlife

Witcher wrote: »

Why not just call the ambulance at scene? Why tie up two Gardai, a vehicle to transport them, a cell in the station and a Garda to supervise them in the station until an ambulance arrives? If you believe it's a welfare issue for this person summon them medical assistance. You're inventing a role for the Gardai here in what it essentially a healthcare matter. As I've said there isn't a criminal offence in the situation the poster described so if it's anything then it's a medical assistance matter.

It's the same process here as the UK but they have to meet the specific proofs of the offence...a lad just sitting in a corner pissed or on a high isn't meeting the proofs of S4 public order offence and tbh the Gardai and the police in the UK shouldn't be a drying out service for drunks and drug users.

My broad point is cleaning the streets of the likes of the goofed out junkie.

If im a bar owner last thing i want for my punters to view is A Walking Dead extra sitting in a door way facing them.

I agree in what youre saying, Gardai shouldnt have to but someone is going to have to.

Change the system..that Garda doesnt have to leave the beat..the transport can take them to a designated facility like Merchants Quay.

Goofed out junkies are an eye sore but its the gangs causing more an issue as witnessed in the video

crooked cockney villain

Remember that NYE when hundreds of women got raped along the boardwalk?

Or the NYE when thousands of cars were stolen and burnt out?

No?

That's cos they never happened. Those things happened in Germany and Strasbourg.

Stop fantasising about crime in Dublin that simply does not exist.

crooked cockney villain

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

Remember that NYE when hundreds of women got raped along the boardwalk?

Or the NYE when thousands of cars were stolen and burnt out?

No?

That's cos they never happened. Those things happened in Germany and Strasbourg.

Stop fantasising about crime in Dublin that simply does not exist.

Whataboutery. Dismissed.

Mimon

Witcher wrote: »

So we won't deal with the one that has just happened, we'll lift 2-3 lads max for public order and tie up the members dealing with that for an hour or two and your other stabbing, burglary etc is still missed as a result.

People don't seem to see there's a limited amount of cloth to be cut with policing, you can't lift every drunk cnut or you'll never get anything done. This is the reality of the numbers game going on in the Gardai. The Gardai have a set number of bodies for a shift given by the government, probably half of what it needs to be in some places and when they can't cover everything, is it the Government blamed...no the Gardai are.

The Gardai don't self replicate on the spot like, if a car is tied up for the night dealing with an incident..it's tied up and there's nobody to replace them in most cases so everything is on hold until they're finished or the next shift starts.

Less excuses, more policing needed.

If they are so short staffed in the city centre the Garda unions should keep at the government until they provide more.

I see sheep

The whole future lies in uncertainty, live immediately

Potential-Monke

Mimon wrote: »

Less excuses, more policing needed.

If they are so short staffed in the city centre the Garda unions should keep at the government until they provide more.

They do. It gets nowhere. They were at it for years before I joined, they were at it for the near 10 years I was one, and they will be at it forever more. There will never be enough Gardai. Never.

Someone made a reference to Italian police a good few pages back, saying that the cops deal with drunk people/drug dealers with a heavy hand and swift justice, and they're always around, on the beat. They fail to mention that Italy has twice as many cops per 100,000 population than Ireland does.

They can't be everywhere, they can't do everything. I always see people throw the "but they've time for traffic offences/money collecting", as if that is any less of a crime compared to the actual non-crime of looking after a junkies welfare, probably again, for the umpteenth time, only to know it always ends the same and is a complete and utter waste of time.

If people want Gardai to do more policing, aside from the obvious to getting more Gardai, maybe leave them to do just policing. But no, the Garda has to be able to do everything, all at once, with impeccable standards, unwavering honesty and without making a single mistake while pleasing everyone at once. Totally possible. Shur it didn't nearly break me after 9 years.

ineedeuro

Potential-Monke wrote: »

They do. It gets nowhere. They were at it for years before I joined, they were at it for the near 10 years I was one, and they will be at it forever more. There will never be enough Gardai. Never.

Someone made a reference to Italian police a good few pages back, saying that the cops deal with drunk people/drug dealers with a heavy hand and swift justice, and they're always around, on the beat. They fail to mention that Italy has twice as many cops per 100,000 population than Ireland does.

They can't be everywhere, they can't do everything. I always see people throw the "but they've time for traffic offences/money collecting", as if that is any less of a crime compared to the actual non-crime of looking after a junkies welfare, probably again, for the umpteenth time, only to know it always ends the same and is a complete and utter waste of time.

If people want Gardai to do more policing, aside from the obvious to getting more Gardai, maybe leave them to do just policing. But no, the Garda has to be able to do everything, all at once, with impeccable standards, unwavering honesty and without making a single mistake while pleasing everyone at once. Totally possible. Shur it didn't nearly break me after 9 years.

Lets not kid ourselves either. If the Gardai showed up to these lads, you would have 100 cameras focused on what the Gardai are doing, then a big discussion online with loads of people complaining about how they reacted.

Look at what happened after the kids of them taking the little s**theads off the train that time. All the do gooders telling everyone they should have done this/that. Ahh look at the poor wee lads should they are doing nothing wrong.

Ireland has a huge problem as I said before, but it's with the public. Not the Gardai

gazzer

Was out last night catching up with mates. We decided to get a bite to eat and after walking down Capel St we found a place with free seats outside.

In the 90 odd minutes we were there:

A couple who were falling around the place we're asking everybody having food for spare change.

Guy outside Centra in a wheelchair was shouting abuse at anybody walking by.

Now I now neither of these 2 things were violent, just a bit disruptive, however shortly after a guy joined the wheelchair guy and proceeded to follow random people down the straight shouting "Do you want a straightener" into their faces.

Just to clarify I wasn't scared or anything but I'm sure other people were and it wasn't pleasant.

On the flip side, we then went down to where Panti Bar and Nealons are and spent two hours there having a great time. Great atmosphere and not a hint of trouble.

ineedeuro

gazzer wrote: »

Was out last night catching up with mates. We decided to get a bite to eat and after walking down Capel St we found a place with free seats outside.

In the 90 odd minutes we were there:

A couple who were falling around the place we're asking everybody having food for spare change.

Guy outside Centra in a wheelchair was shouting abuse at anybody walking by.

Now I now neither of these 2 things were violent, just a bit disruptive, however shortly after a guy joined the wheelchair guy and proceeded to follow random people down the straight shouting "Do you want a straightener" into their faces.

Just to clarify I wasn't scared or anything but I'm sure other people were and it wasn't pleasant.

On the flip side, we then went down to where Panti Bar and Nealons are and spent two hours there having a great time. Great atmosphere and not a hint of trouble.

I don't visit town as regular as I used to but Capel St used to be a complete s**thole, has it changed?

The only thing on it was the early houses for beers at 7 in the morning

enricoh

enricoh wrote: »

Kopparberg a mate of mine was stopped near the quays last week. A cop came over and check ed the discs on the windscreen. Right beside him a junkie was in a hoop with a needle in his hands. My mate pointed out yer man n the cop just breezed on!
I know plenty of capital cities have dodgy areas for addicts but I don't think I was ever in a country where they hung out in the main thoroughfares.

Just wondering, what do you think that Garda should have done with the junkie?