Three men arrested after shocking incident involving bar staff on South William Stree

Here's another statistic for you to ignore.

Total general government expenditure on public order and safety, 2019 (% of GDP)

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_public_order_and_safety,_2019_(%25_of_GDP).png

Ireland is absolutely pitiful.

Patrick2010

bubblypop wrote: »

You're right.
Those gardai should have stopped and spoken to that civilian, explaining the call they had just come from that prevented them from being at that fight within 30 seconds of it kicking off.

They should have taken their time also, make.sure that particular civilian was aware of what had delayed them. Probably worry.about the row after.........

Thats assuming they were telling the truth about that they were at another call. Sorry for repeating myself but we need a constant Garda presence on our main street. Even 6 guards , three on each side constantly patrolling would have nipped that fight in the bud.
No one said they should have been there within 30 seconds and the row was over by the time they arrived so your last comment was irrelevant.

pioneerpro

pioneerpro wrote: »

What if it was YOUR mother who got knocked and broke a hip on O'Connell Street following the abysmal response time involved in the incident at hand. You'd absolve everyone of blame or responsibility based on some abstract assessment of what priorities they may have had that day?

Strawmen work both ways.

If a garda unit is available, it will be dispatched to a call.
If there are no available units, that cannot be dispatched.
If my mother was injured on O Connell street because of this particular incident?
I would blame the scrotes who were fighting, obviously, because they are the ones that would have injured her. I would also assist.her in making a complaint against them and going to court to give evidence against them.

corner of hells

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Thats assuming they were telling the truth about that they were at another call. Sorry for repeating myself but we need a constant Garda presence on our main street. Even 6 guards , three on each side constantly patrolling would have nipped that fight in the bud.
No one said they should have been there within 30 seconds and the row was over by the time they arrived so your last comment was irrelevant.

Store st Gardai ? you can assume they were at another call. Anything from shoplifting right up to deaths in homeless services in that area.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Here's another statistic for you to ignore.

Total general government expenditure on public order and safety, 2019 (% of GDP)

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_public_order_and_safety,_2019_(%25_of_GDP).png

Ireland is absolutely pitiful.

It absolutely is!
I'm just looking at Finland, which has far less police then Ireland. And yet they spend around the same.

Sierra Oscar

EB_2013 wrote: »

They've been recruiting since 2013 after the moratorium and they've took on a lot of civil servants to do the desk bound duties so they should have more numbers available to patrol the streets when needed.

True, but they've also created numerous new national units to deal with issues such as domestic violence, fraud, cyber crime and a whole raft of other offences. That's before you take into account that they've also had to put members on secondment to an ever growing number of roles in other Government Department's and other organisations internationally and establish dedicated firearms response units. These are all things that happened following numerous reform reports that the public demanded action on. Those units and roles all need to be resourced. The end result is that the number of Gardaí on regular units hasn't increased whatsoever and they are the ones who actually respond to the routine day to day calls - such as the one being discussed here.

The Garda manpower levels leave a lot to be desired when you actually drill down into them. They have fewer resources per capita than the likes of the UK and that's before you take into account that the UK has other agencies such as the National Crime Agency, MI5 and MI6 which do a lot to tackle crime on a national level.

Then you have Gardaí acting as coroners officers, prosecuting their own court cases and so on and so forth which all requires manpower and takes from those available to respond to the more routine calls that people rightly expect to be dealt with in a prompt and efficient manner.

You could have 20,000 sworn Gardaí and the regular units would probably just be about at the manpower levels that they require to respond to all calls promptly.

Beasty

pioneerpro wrote: »

20 mins to get to an all-out brawl on O'Connell Street in the middle of the day.

7 Garda Stations within a 5km radius.



and nothing but bad-attitude and ass-covering when they eventually stroll up.

It's a wonder the cameraman didn't get arrested tbh.

pioneerpro wrote: »

There were 7 garda stations within 5km. Not one of them could apparently spare a Gardai for nearly half an hour following numerous reports of a brawl on the main street of the Capital.

Well able to make a complete nuisance of themselves asking people where they were doing their shopping over the last 16 months though.

pioneerpro wrote: »

There's exactly the attitude. So entrenched in a culture of absolution of blame the Gardai can't even see what's wrong when society itself is crying out about it.

pioneerpro wrote: »

No you're absolutely right. 7 stations full of Gardai, in the middle of the day, had far more important things to be doing then addressing that incident on O'Connell Street. And they were absolutely right to be adversarial and to start escalating it with the people impacted when they did eventually stroll up.

Great optics for public policing and a valuable insight into where the priorities of the organisation lie, as articulated by the rank and file, and their attitude towards any accountability or their public service remit.

pioneerpro wrote: »

I must have missed the 50 page thread about the ambulance services systemic corruption and their lack of presence during a time Dublin is gone actively feral - whilst simultaneously being the overbearing and draconian enforcers of 'the law as we feel like it' while manning checkpoints and prowling beauty spots over the last 16 months.

Paramedics are about as blameless an entity in civic society as one could imagine. The Gardai? Even by the standards of their own governing body, decidely less so.

To suggest equivalence is just indicative of how low you'll stoop in a debate to convince yourself you've made a salient point.

Do not post in this thread again

XVII

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's another statistic for you to ignore.

Total general government expenditure on public order and safety, 2019 (% of GDP)

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_public_order_and_safety,_2019_(%25_of_GDP).png

Ireland is absolutely pitiful.

christ.

almost the same as Denmark. But in the ****tiest hole of Copenhagen you won't find even a quarter of knacker that we have running right through the city centre in Dublin and causing havoc. Pathetic.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

It absolutely is!
I'm just looking at Finland, which has far less police then Ireland. And yet they spend around the same.

I think that culture is another obvious factor, although more nebulous and impossible to quantify. Ireland and the UK seem to share an affinity for anti social behaviour.

But the fact remains that Ireland lacks sufficient Gardai staff and finances, when compared to the EU average.

larva

Dublin is a quite safe place to walk around, ignore the Crows and enjoy the Swans. Beautiful.

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that culture is another obvious factor, although more nebulous and impossible to quantify. Ireland and the UK seem to share an affinity for anti social behaviour.

But the fact remains that Ireland lacks sufficient Gardai staff and finances, when compared to the EU average.

Ireland and the UK also share the fact thst the police force are not armed . You see police in Germany , France , Portugal, Italy etc walking in twos armed and in bullet proof vests. They dont pander to anti social behaviour and the citizens do not tolerate it happening all around them

nj27

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's another statistic for you to ignore.

Total general government expenditure on public order and safety, 2019 (% of GDP)

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_public_order_and_safety,_2019_(%25_of_GDP).png

Ireland is absolutely pitiful.

Very interesting. Is there the political will to address these issues is the question at the moment? I think there are a lot of people thinking that an increased interest in this matters might be practicable.

nj27

nj27 wrote: »

Very interesting. Is there the political will to address these issues is the question at the moment? I think there are a lot of people thinking that an increased interest in this matters might be practicable.

I honestly can't find a party that is interested in even discussing these issues.

I would vote for a party that does.

starkid

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly can't find a party that is interested in even discussing these issues.

I would vote for a party that does.

the country is sleep walking into these issues. its happening in real time.

Will be interesting to watch the car crash unfold. If the age of responsibility is raised to 25 all bets are off imo.

what more proof do people need that its not going to end well. those stats which are shocking as well as 40 per cent less police that the eu average. we have a huge concentration of social housing sites with all their issues bang in our city centre proper, unlike anywhere at least in Northern Europe. A transient population and the poorest of our population. what could go wrong.

forget about safety etc. Dublin is safe. but who wants to live in a city plagued by social issues and a cohort of people ready to **** others over hpysically, mentally or whatnot. Why would Dublin escape the obvious trend. SOcially we have caught up with many of those nations on that public order spending graph. All the problem that brings. YEt we haven't caught up in loads of other areas. we skipped steps. The craic and being sound, Irish exceptionalism won't save us here lads. Personally i think we're a bit ****ed.

starkid

starkid wrote: »

Will be interesting to watch the car crash unfold. If the age of responsibility is raised to 25 all bets are off imo.

Has this been advised?
By who?
Crazy idea!

fly_agaric

Weepsie wrote: »

They've taken gardai away from outlying areas, particularly rural. Crime increases in those areas then too

It's not simply policing that needs to be done but something serious in the judicial and rehabilitation side of things too need radical overhauls

Have they? I've wondered what the breakdown is?
(honest question as have not had the interest to try & find out but this thread + some of the discussion on here makes me curious).

There's alot of complaints from rural areas, but like a lot of things when it comes to state resources I expect they are getting at least a fair shake & probably more than than their share per capita.

We've always had a rural government for a rural people in Ireland.
There's only 1 city in this country and politicans in the main are not interested in city-specific issues as the electorate is not. You won't win a GE on "Dublin" issues, unless perhaps its to run on taking funding away from the place to spend somewhere else!

IMO they only take special measures and spend extra money to deal with "mainly Dublin" problems (poor public transport, accomodation shortages and cost or as per this thread general discussion, crime) when the stink becomes intolerable.

edit: would agree some of the justice/rehabilitation aspects + dealing with criminals (which also costs alot of money) are more important in any case.

Kermit.de.frog

Patrick2010 wrote: »

I think its reasonable to think you'd have a regular Garda presence on O Connell street given its our main street and that everyone knows theres a high number of junkies in the area.

Worth remembering that is not by accident, it's by design. The council signed off on all the clinics in the area. Drug users from all over the city go in to town every day now for methadone.

What did they think would be the result?

It's far preferable surely to have such services spread out in the areas it is needed around the city.

Instead they crammed them all in to a tight geographical area right in the center of the city in effect condemning the center of the city to the zombie land everyone experiences when they go in to Dublin.

It's tempting to call it vandalism but I think they are just hopelessly incompetent.

As a poster mentioned earlier cause and effect seem to mean nothing to these people.

am_zarathustra

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Worth remembering that is not by accident, it's by design. The council signed off on all the clinics in the area. Drug users from all over the city go in to town every day now for methadone.

What did they think would be the result?

It's far preferable surely to have such services spread out in the areas it is needed around the city.

Instead they crammed them all in to a tight geographical area right in the center of the city in effect condemning the center of the city to the zombie land everyone experiences when they go in to Dublin.

It's tempting to call it vandalism but I think they are just hopelessly incompetent.

As a poster mentioned earlier cause and effect seem to mean nothing to these people.

There are very few owner occupiers in the city centre, that's why. Every time they try and build methadone clinics in other areas people go mad and it get tied up in legal issues for so long they give up. Very few have gone in anywhere except the city centre in years. Dublin needs a Mayor, no one actually cares about the city centre.

Thelonious Monk

The heroin addicts seem to be harmless to me, they're usually too out of it to bother anyone much. I just feel bad for them, such a horrible existence.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Has this been advised?
By who?
Crazy idea!

Fine Gael minister. Who in hell is pushing that?

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The heroin addicts seem to be harmless to me, they're usually too out of it to bother anyone much. I just feel bad for them, such a horrible existence.

Yeah. The teenage gangs are the biggest threat.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fine Gael minister.

Madness.
They should be reducing the age of criminal responsibility

Spanish Eyes

First prerequisite for an elected Mayor or City Manager is that the boss of the city actually resides in city centre itself. Not on Grafton Street/Dawson Street, or other salubrious areas but right there in the thick of things. Elected Mayors should have a budget for a metro police force, and the powers to clean the city up. They will see at first hand how bad it is. They don't now because they just work in the bunkers of Wood Quay and get in and out as quickly as possible. All decisions seem to be made by looking at graphics on an iPad.

It would not be long before things change for the better if they had to live and experience it all first hand day after day.

Kermit.de.frog

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The heroin addicts seem to be harmless to me, they're usually too out of it to bother anyone much. I just feel bad for them, such a horrible existence.

I agree but it sets the tone and that's the main issue really. It's not that there shouldn't be any in the city center but what they have done is the other extreme.

Thelonious Monk

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I agree but it sets the tone and that's the main issue really. It's not that there shouldn't be any in the city center but what they have done is the other extreme.

Where are they supposed to put them in fairness? You can't even build apartments without TDs and Counsellors and residents going bananas, never mind methadone clinics.

Donald Trump

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I agree but it sets the tone and that's the main issue really. It's not that there shouldn't be any in the city center but what they have done is the other extreme.

Broken windows theory!

Kermit.de.frog

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

First prerequisite for an elected Mayor or City Manager is that the boss of the city actually resides in city centre itself. Not on Grafton Street/Dawson Street, or other salubrious areas but right there in the thick of things. Elected Mayors should have a budget for a metro police force, and the powers to clean the city up. They will see at first hand how bad it is. They don't now because they just work in the bunkers of Wood Quay and get in and out as quickly as possible. All decisions seem to be made by looking at graphics on an iPad.

It would not be long before things change for the better if they had to live and experience it all first hand day after day.

Surely the government must realise that this is a threat to business and tourism - most of which is done in the city center. Surely it can't escape them that reputation and perceptions are important.

I do definitely agree though that there are many of these people who never cross the river.

They were on the high horse about South William Street over a couple of days and they put the garda out in force.

That tells me how out of touch they are.

corner of hells

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I agree but it sets the tone and that's the main issue really. It's not that there shouldn't be any in the city center but what they have done is the other extreme.

Unfortunately large numbers of heroin addicts need significant supports , everything from wherever they collect their methadone, mental health supports ,guide clinics and HEP treatment, wound dressing even specialist dental treatments along with accommodation all these supports are city centre based.
Large amounts of addicts collect methadone in city centre chemists too.
Moving away from the city just wouldn't be viable.

AndrewJRenko

danger_here wrote: »

That would be fine, except that you'll find exactly the same w@nkers in Crumlin, Fettercairn, Neilstown and Coolock. Having a garden and a field has nothing to do with it. Scum will be scum. I've grew up in Drimnagh and Ballyfermot myself btw so well qualified to give this opinion.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Broken windows theory myth!

FYP https://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/broken-windows-myth

Interesting publication date though.

enricoh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Garda is one of smallest per capita police forces in EU

Eurostat report shows the State employed 278 gardaí per 100,000 citizens in 2016

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-is-one-of-smallest-per-capita-police-forces-in-eu-1.3749005

Has there been a massive recruitment since this study?

We simply can't afford the necessary numbers of gardai as we pay them an average of e1300 a week. Surely no other cops in Europe are on that kind of money?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/work/garda%25C3%25AD-are-best-paid-public-servants-earning-1-300-a-week-1.3715038%3fmode=amp

Average weekly earnings in the public sector are increasing under all headings, with the best paid group of public servants continuing to be gardaí. They earn, on average, about €1,300 a week, according to figures from the first quarter of this year