Back to the 70s/80s

Glaceon

McGaggs wrote: »

Parents got an indesit washing machine around 1980. It was finally inreapirable by about 2006/7. They still have the glass from the door as a fruit bowl.

Compare that to Indesit (also Hotpoint) dryers from 10-15 years ago that were so badly made that they were a fire hazard. I have a recent AEG vacuum cleaner and it’s crap. Many of the brands we would have known as “good” are certainly not now.

crooked cockney villain

ineedeuro wrote: »

Yet we have the people of ireland filling the countryside with rubbish because they don’t want to pay 100 euro a year for bin collection

100 a year? That's 8.50 a month odd, who collects your bins?

Mine is 22 odd a month.

spacetweek

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

A more miserable bunch of bastards you will never meet. I seriously struggle to work out how their economy functions with so many people who refuse to buy anything more than the basic requirements to survive.

Hah!
We had a young (19yo) German couple stay with us once, we knew them through friends but hadn't met them before. Stuff they did in Dublin:

- When one of us came in with the shopping, the bloke goes "Oh you bought fruit? If i had known this, I could just have taken your fruit instead of buying my own." He was totally serious.
- They found a place called Seomra Spraoi (sadly gone now) where there was a "bring food, take food" ethos. You could bring anything you liked and take anything. It was all on an honour system. The two of them headed for it and when they came back they were going "We found this place where you can take free food, it was great. We took all of it."
- They refused to get to Dublin Airport using any kind of express bus or taxi - local buses all the way. I explained to them how this was a severe form of madness but they insisted. They got the Luas from Tallaght to O'Connell St and got the local bus through Coolock etc. to the airport. I never heard from them again but I'd be amazed if this journey took less than 2.5 hours.

Glaceon

Glaceon wrote: »

Many of the brands we would have known as “good” are certainly not now.

Particularly applies to tellys:

"Nordmende", "JVC" , made by Turkish entity,

joseywhales

machiavellianme wrote: »

I still wear t-shirts that are 25+ years old most days and I haven't bought jeans or shoes in 10 years. People keep giving me jumpers as Christmas presents so I just keep wearing the same stuff. If it's not broke, why replace it? I've never been fashionable so I'm not missing out on much.

However, I couldn't give a hoot about all this renewable nonsense. It's a money spinner, that's it. Why should Ireland impose such despotic restrictions on its people when our contributions to greenhouse gases and pollution in general is almost negligible on a global scale? When the US and China adopt these proposals, then I'll take note, but until then, the Greens can rot (or in their own lingo - compost) for all I care.

But you understand that having this attitude means that nothing will change until most of nature with the exception of pests, some insects and parasites are left, our weather is more extreme and the water and air we consume is highly polluted killing millions more people every year?(beyond the millions that die currently from air pollution)

"I will do it if they do it" means noone will do anything because everyone will have the same excuse. Mutually ensured destruction does not seem very mature to me.

ineedeuro

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

100 a year? That's 8.50 a month odd, who collects your bins?

Mine is 22 odd a month.

Well mine is 300 a year with a black, brown, green bin so that’s 100 a bin a year

MontgomeryClift

I see nothing wrong with reuse and repair, as I find the consumerist frenzy, and all the waste that goes with it, to be reprehensible. The sheer volume of single use plastic packaging we use is disgusting to anyone sensitive to the natural beauty of the world. Go to any recycling (actually disassembly and landfill) centre and see how many working or repairable things are being dumped.

Plastic bottles and aluminium cans will be collected by a deposit return system for recycling and reuse, while “rediscovery centres” will encourage reuse. Companies fitting out offices in second-hand furniture will become commonplace.

This is fine, but if we can repair machinery and electronic devices then why can't be make it here in the first place instead of having it made in Asia and having it shipped across the world?

Obviously that would be an energy-consuming industry, and would clash with our zero-carbon targets. So we have the Chinese make stuff with coal-fired power stations and we can pretend we're being green by fixing some of it, or renting it instead of owning it.

Which ties in perfectly with the World Economic Forum's declaration that by 2030 you will own nothing and be happy.

By 2030, if this works, the average member of the Irish public will pay homage to the circular economy routinely by buying products that last, that can be reused and repaired, and that leave no waste behind when they are finished.

Funny how this prediction from a totally independent (government funded) charity ties in perfectly with the World Economic Forum's prediction that by 2030 we will own nothing and be happy. They're so good at predicting stuff. It's almost like they're dictating what comes next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBBxWtKKQiA

Also, does this mean an end to the movement of people from the third world to the resource-hungry developed world? Are the Greens going to oppose immigration on these grounds? Will they rebel against the GDP-worship that requires ceaseless production and consumerism, maximum employment and pointless busywork?

Tony EH

We were having this conversation in the boozer the other day, about the 80's and eventually we all came to the conclusion that not much has actually changed. When we were kids we all thought that the year 2000 would be this turning point and the "future" would be here or at least start to get here. But we're now 21 years into the "future" and apart from a few mickey mouse things, like the web, flat screen teles or everyone having handheld devices, it's all pretty much the same shit.

It's all a damn sight more expensive though. Well, not all. A video recorder would have set you back 100's of pounds in 1985. You can get a Blu Ray player for a song now. We have better computers and whatnot. Better domestic equipment and so forth. But not a lot has altered. Certainly not in the manner we were all apparently expecting when we were kids.

As for the Greens...pffft. But there is something to be said for getting rid of out extremist consumer culture and learning to make do in some areas.

crooked cockney villain

Tony EH wrote: »

We were having this conversation in the boozer the other day, about the 80's and eventually we all came to the conclusion that not much has actually changed. When we were kids we all thought that the year 2000 would be this turning point and the "future" would be here or at least start to get here. But we're now 21 years into the "future" and apart from a few mickey mouse things, like the web, flat screen teles or everyone having handheld devices, it's all pretty much the same shit.

.

Exactly this. From about the 1930's to the 1980's was probably the most rapid advancement in human history, from living conditions, tech, fashion, music and culture etc. Whereas I can't imagine an Irish man in 1710 had a dramatically different life, fashion etc to one living in 1810.

Like you say, bar small tweaks in technology, a time traveller wandering around an older residential part of Dublin in 2021 wouldn't notice a whole pile different about the place, the way people dress etc etc, yet the differences between 1981 and 2001 would probably be staggering. It's like we froze in time.

crooked cockney villain

spacetweek wrote: »

Hah!

- They found a place called Seomra Spraoi (sadly gone now) where there was a "bring food, take food" ethos. You could bring anything you liked and take anything. It was all on an honour system. The two of them headed for it and when they came back they were going "We found this place where you can take free food, it was great. We took all of it."
.

Reminds me, knew of Germans over in Sydney who had no qualms in eating for free at homeless soup kitchens. Absolutely no shame about it, if it saves them a few quid they will do it.

Though I never did see it myself some of them were happy enough to hit the streets begging for travel money.

https://www.google.com/search?q=backpackers+begging&hl=en&source=hp&ei=uqzPYOSzCM-FhbIPseyekAI&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYM-6ymjNIEWxksjcQ3k0K9-UpUQCXuHZ&oq=backpackers+begging&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjoICAAQsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOgUIABCxAzoOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6AgguOggILhDHARCjAjoICC4QsQMQgwE6CAguELEDEJMCOgUILhCxAzoICC4QxwEQrwE6BQgAEMkDOgQIABAKUM0DWK0eYJojaABwAHgAgAHgAYgBxwySAQYxNi4yLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjk-OzqjafxAhXPQkEAHTG2ByIQ4dUDCAg&uact=5

Donald Trump

spacetweek wrote: »

Hah!
We had a young (19yo) German couple stay with us once, we knew them through friends but hadn't met them before. Stuff they did in Dublin:

- When one of us came in with the shopping, the bloke goes "Oh you bought fruit? If i had known this, I could just have taken your fruit instead of buying my own." He was totally serious.

Wait til you hear what happened when they heard Poland had a load of fruit and veg back in the day

Thelonious Monk

I've found Germans just to be sensible with money rather than miserly. That's why credit cards never really kicked off there and they didn't go bananas with credit in the 00s like much of the world. When you go out for their birthday to a restaurant or something they pay for everything, I always found that one odd, we do the opposite in Ireland. Saving money, pickling and fermenting food, big things in Germany, you never know when the next war will come around.

Don't hang around with polish people of you think Germans are miserable!!!

Donald Trump

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've found Germans just to be sensible with money rather than miserly. That's why credit cards never really kicked off there and they didn't go bananas with credit in the 00s like much of the world. When you go out for their birthday to a restaurant or something they pay for everything, I always found that one odd, we do the opposite in Ireland. Saving money, pickling and fermenting food, big things in Germany, you never know when the next war will come around.

Don't mention the war!






The thing is that they would know when the next one will come if they have it planned already. And the feckers love planning. And wars. Allegedly :pac:

CalamariFritti

I dont think we need to go back to hand me down but I do think that for the last 50-70 years we are going in the completely wrong direction. Its all about increasing consumption for the sake of profit. No durability or sustainability. A new car every 3 years. A new phone every 2 years. New clothes all the time. Buying useless nonsense for the sake of it. Things are actually being designed to be throwaway and not repairable, We are living on a throwaway society. All for the sake of this destructive capitalist dogma of ever increasing growth. With all the profit ultimately ending up in the hands of the very few where it does no good to society or anyone but those few. So that they can have their mansions and yachts and jets and their vanity projects. Sucking the fruits of labour and science out of the system.

Which is the real surge. Its not us going on holidays or driving a car. Our whole existence is designed to be consumerist and wasteful and thats the elephant in the room. The climate and co2 debate is just a smokescreen, its being being instrumentalized by big corporate/industry already to sell us even more stuff. Trying to disguise the fact that its the capitalist system itself that is the biggest killer.

And its getting more extreme all the time. We have practically a new feudal system in place already. All the money and the power concentrated with a few oligarchs who hold the political and opinion strings. And soon they will be telling us we cant do X and we cant do Y but they wont tell us to work or consume less. Work, eat, sleep and consume. And to hell with everything else including our planet.

And we suck it up believing the neoliberal propaganda that 'this is the way'. That our own small wealth and wellbeing depends on the success of this system and cant be achieved any other way. Ignoring that this system is destructive by design. It cannot be any other way.

I hope we wont stay blind to this until its too late but right now its looking bleak.

Dyr

That rediscovery centre is another massive white elephant, there's a pool of full time chancers in the NGO and community sector ready to soak up any funding that europe is throwing around.

whisky_galore

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've found Germans just to be sensible with money rather than miserly. That's why credit cards never really kicked off there and they didn't go bananas with credit in the 00s like much of the world. When you go out for their birthday to a restaurant or something they pay for everything, I always found that one odd, we do the opposite in Ireland. Saving money, pickling and fermenting food, big things in Germany, you never know when the next war will come around.

You wont find them building stupid dick waving mini hotels for their tiny family with the shiny SUV as a middle finger to next door.
Paddy gets a sniff of money and hes thinking about the purchase of a helicopter and offshore property and other ways of pissing it away. People prudent with money and rainy day savers get laughed at here.

ineedeuro

whisky_galore wrote: »

You wont find them building stupid dick waving mini hotels for their tiny family with the shiny SUV as a middle finger to next door.
Paddy gets a sniff of money and hes thinking about the purchase of a helicopter and offshore property and other ways of pissing it away. People prudent with money and rainy day savers get laughed at here.

Who can forget the bust to buy apartments in Bulgaria wasn't it during the early 2000's?

The J Stands for Jay

ineedeuro wrote: »

Who can forget the bust to buy apartments in Bulgaria wasn't it during the early 2000's?

You know, I think the Ross O'Carroll Kelly books will be an important source of historical information about the excesses on the first few decades of this century. I vaguely recall Ross being goaded into clearing his current account to buy two Bulgarian apartments sight unseen.

Gentlemanne

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont think we need to go back to hand me down but I do think that for the last 50-70 years we are going in the completely wrong direction. Its all about increasing consumption for the sake of profit. No durability or sustainability. A new car every 3 years. A new phone every 2 years. New clothes all the time. Buying useless nonsense for the sake of it. Things are actually being designed to be throwaway and not repairable, We are living on a throwaway society. All for the sake of this destructive capitalist dogma of ever increasing growth. With all the profit ultimately ending up in the hands of the very few where it does no good to society or anyone but those few. So that they can have their mansions and yachts and jets and their vanity projects. Sucking the fruits of labour and science out of the system.

Which is the real surge. Its not us going on holidays or driving a car. Our whole existence is designed to be consumerist and wasteful and thats the elephant in the room. The climate and co2 debate is just a smokescreen, its being being instrumentalized by big corporate/industry already to sell us even more stuff. Trying to disguise the fact that its the capitalist system itself that is the biggest killer.

And its getting more extreme all the time. We have practically a new feudal system in place already. All the money and the power concentrated with a few oligarchs who hold the political and opinion strings. And soon they will be telling us we cant do X and we cant do Y but they wont tell us to work or consume less. Work, eat, sleep and consume. And to hell with everything else including our planet.

And we suck it up believing the neoliberal propaganda that 'this is the way'. That our own small wealth and wellbeing depends on the success of this system and cant be achieved any other way. Ignoring that this system is destructive by design. It cannot be any other way.

I hope we wont stay blind to this until its too late but right now its looking bleak.

Great analysis, its worth pointing out that even the concept of a personal carbon footprint was a strategy that big oil used to shift responsilbiity:
https://clear.ucdavis.edu/blog/big-oil-distracts-their-carbon-footprint-tricking-you-focus-yours