Charging etiquette

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Well if removing some of somebody else's property from a public place without permission is ok, why not go the whole hog

I'm not removing it though.

Smee_Again wrote: »

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

Yes
und herr liamog ist der haupt-protagonist!

tDw6u1bj

Smee_Again wrote: »

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

Bad comparison - they're reserving the best deck-chairs but there are always others available, which makes their actions annoying, but not a big deal.

The behaviour* in this thread is much more inconsiderate.


*(edit: complete hogging of a limited public facility)

slave1

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

Or just do what most folks do. Do whatever you think is best. That's what I do. As I grow older I learn to stop caring what others think.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm not removing it though.

So you aren't planning on removing one end of my charging cable from the handy type 2 receptacle I've chosen to store it in

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

I'd just plug in when I arrive, charge at full speed, if it's going to be done at a reasonable hour pop out and put the cable in the boot. If it's going to finish at 1am, I'll be leaving it until the morning.

I don't see any functional difference between using the charger at full speed for 4 hours versus artificially reducing it to 12 hours so I can avoid upsetting someone who got there after me.

turnfan

If another EV user asked me if they could carefully remove my cable at 1am, when I was finished so they could charge, I'd say, go for it, stick the cap on the end and leave it under the car out of the way.
(and also do you like your EV? Can i see inside? etc etc )

If I was worried about damage to the cable, I'd go down and do it myself.

But I wouldn't deny someone else a charge if they needed it, by slowing my own charge.

kanuseeme

Way too much hassle.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolutely I am. First come first served. But as equally as I am pro first come first served, I'm opposed to reservations of chargers.

Are you against reservation of other hotel facilities too? The spa, pool, a certain room even?
A private business, a hotel, with a privately owned charge point, with a paying guest who owns an EV, plugged in to charge overnight while they sleep, is somehow a problem how? Because a later arriving guest wants to use it?
They feel entitled to interfere with another guests private property by removing a cable, because their need for a charge takes priority?

ELM327 wrote: »

You joke about lowering the charge curve but this actually is better. The notional other EV would see the charger in use and therefore not expect to use it later and know they have to make other plans.

Again, I plan my trip, pay well for my stay at the hotel, plug in my EV & head for dinner/drinks/bed, but I'm required to ensure the charge point shows I'm actively charging, lest someone else takes issue I'm plugged in but they're not?

turnfan wrote: »

Use same etiquette as FCPs , as the issue here is the same: time and scarcity

Can't believe people would use timed charge at a public slow charger on purpose, just so they reach 100% at the exact time of departure

The timed charging was just mentioned as a possible reason a charge point may not show a car actively charging at a hotel whilst still plugged in. Maybe the car had already reached 100% & the owner had retired to bed early in preparation for a very early start the following morning, with a full battery.

liamog wrote: »

Fair enough so it's ok to remove other peoples property if it's in your way.

Yeah, I too am perplexed at the reasoning proffered here by some seasoned EV owners . A private hotel charge point - I'm plugging in if it's free at 6/7/8pm & if it takes 6 hours at 7kW or 12 hours at 3kW, I likely won't be moving it.
If I can phone & book it in advance, even better, exactly as I can for a ferry.
Private business, with a privately owned resource.

Now a publicly funded DC charger or publicly available, on-street, AC charge post, sure, impose penalties, clamp, tow away - whatever, I'm all for it.

A hotel?

That said, I always arrive at a hotel with enough charge to get to the nearest DC fast charger the following day, lest the charge point be occupied, ICE'd or broken.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

:pac:.

God, I can only just imagine the hassle hotel staff are going to have to endure over charge points

With these hotel chargers, do you just go and plug in, do you have to swipe, ask permission etc ? can't say I'd be bothered with all that nonsense you have to go through if it's anything like the grief of accessing work chargers I just wouldn't bother.

M_Murphy57

[Deleted User] wrote: »

God, I can only just imagine the hassle hotel staff are going to have to endure over charge points

With these hotel chargers, do you just go and plug in, do you have to swipe, ask permission etc ? can't say I'd be bothered with all that nonsense you have to go through if it's anything like the grief of accessing work chargers I just wouldn't bother.

Charging etiquette can be a hassle (I drive an electric car through my work so know what you mean) but hopefully things will improve. I'm sure when petrol cars 1st came out there was the same stress accessing petrol pumps. Benefits of electric still outweigh the cons for me.

M_Murphy57

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Charging etiquette can be a hassle (I drive an electric car through my work so know what you mean) but hopefully things will improve. I'm sure when petrol cars 1st came out there was the same stress accessing petrol pumps. Benefits of electric still outweigh the cons for me.

Sure, the benefits are great for me too but I've learned now that it's best not to ask about charging in places like hotels, especially on work sites that are not owned by my company, or even asking about plugging in the extension lead in a BnB I just don't go there, the hassle of explaining what I'm trying to do or finding out form someone who can give permission, getting access cards , tell them the cost to charge and all that it's just gone so old with me now I can't be bothered, this is why I went with the largest battery EV I could possibly get this time around, it should make a massive difference along with 125 Kw charging ( at least for part of the charge ) the only real issue is the very poor charging infrastructure in the South, West and North West of the Island where I'm going to need it the most, that's if I bother taking the id.3 at all on trips like this. I wouldn't even consider the Charging infrastructure good in the East but however bad it is here it's far worse everywhere else.

AndyBoBandy

Charge points in hotels are going to become massive selling points over the next few years.....

Hotels that don't have any are mad to still not have any.... hotels with them are mad not to be installing more of them!!!!

I've been to 2 different hotels now over the last 2 weeks, and we've had food costing in the region of €40-€50 on both occasions. And why did we go there? because they had destination chargers.... so they gave us about €2 of electricity, in return for meal orders of around €45... Would we have specifically gone to those places had they not had destination charging? most likely not.

Tesla give the chargers away for free FFS!!!!!!! (all they ask is that some of them be Tesla only)

Here's Kelly's Resort in Rosslare... 7 Tesla Destination chargers, 4 are Tesla only (red sign) and the other 3 (grey sign) are 'any type 2 car', and they are located front and centre when you pull into the carpark, and it looked bloody awesome pulling in for the 1st time.. seeing a big bank of EV chargers, with a few cars plugged in.

This is how it should be done.

My OH took our car down to Cork last week on business, chose her hotel because they had 3 Tesla destination chargers there (2 being Tesla only), she left site at 4pm so as to get in and make sure she got a charger... In the end all 3 were available, and when she plugged in, it was only giving 4kW, so I set the car to go to 90%, which it got to by around midnight (so absolutely zero intention of 'coming down to unplug and move the car'), and then the following morning before she left, I started it charging again, and she left with around 97% (no other cars had arrived to use the other 2 chargers).

liamog

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Tesla give the chargers away for free FFS!!!!!!! (all they ask is that some of them be Tesla only)

Should be banned. That's a classic case of anti competitive behaviour.

slave1

What was the Cork Hotel Andy?

AndyBoBandy

slave1 wrote: »

What was the Cork Hotel Andy?

Kingsley

the 1st one she used wouldn't work, and the same with the 2nd one... so I got her to reset it and it started working.

HerrKapitan

You should be deemed as operating your vehicle while plugged in to the charge, so no alcohol in that time. It would solve the 'too drunk to move to another parking spot' defence at hotels.

liamog

HerrKapitan wrote: »

You should be deemed as operating your vehicle while plugged in to the charge, so no alcohol in that time. It would solve the 'too drunk to move to another parking spot' defence at hotels.

That's ridiculous. Imagine getting charged with drunk driving because you plug in at home then crack open a beer.

ELM327

HerrKapitan wrote: »

You should be deemed as operating your vehicle while plugged in to the charge, so no alcohol in that time. It would solve the 'too drunk to move to another parking spot' defence at hotels.

Bahahahahahaahah

innrain

I followed the thread but didn't say anything because I find it hard to come up a solution acceptable to all parties involved. Then came across this article
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/23/electric-vehicle-growth-is-accelerating-but-its-given-rise-to-a-new-social-faux-pas/
Which kinda agree with me as the charge etiquette is an evolving thing and at some point will sort itself out. In the meantime we do what common sense tells us to do. Interesting anyway nobody mentioned plugshare as an option to communicate to fellow EV owners.

cannco253

check out what happened to Bjorn yesterday when he arrived as his hotel, go to 23:04.
If this is what's happening in Norway there's no chance anything will change here in the near future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRY8bw_kh5E
Road trip to North Cape in ID4 GTX part 1

Yep hotel chargers shouldn't be expected or relied upon, if they're available great and if not, too bad, off to the nearest Public AC or DC. I personally wouldn't even go to the hassle about asking to use a hotel charge point.

robbie_63

Would you pay a little extra for a dedicated charging spot for the duration of your stay?

I have been in contact with some manufacturers about developing a system for hotels for dedicated charging spots,
these would be activated with your hotel key card and the parking spot is blocked off with an automatic bollard which retracts when you swipe your card.

AndyBoBandy

robbie_63 wrote: »

Would you pay a little extra for a dedicated charging spot for the duration of your stay?

Yes, Absolutely, but for that, I'd be fully expecting the charger to be available (to me only) and working, as If paying for the service, I'd be building it into my planning.

robbie_63

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Yes, Absolutely, but for that, I'd be fully expecting the charger to be available (to me only) and working, as If paying for the service, I'd be building it into my planning.

Yeah that would be the plan, each space has a built in bollard blocking access until you swipe your hotel card, only your card has access to the charging spot.

This would stop others taking it and you would be guaranteed a working spot if you booked it with your stay.

AndyBoBandy

Although the having to park, go in and get key card, come back out and open the bollard, then park car again in the charging space would be a bit of a pain. It's probably necessary to stop the spaces being ICE'd or taken by EV's that haven't pre booked.....

Would a small keypad at or beside the space/charger to to key in an 'unlock' code (which you obtain when making the booking) be an easier proposition?

robbie_63

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Although the having to park, go in and get key card, come back out and open the bollard, then park car again in the charging space would be a bit of a pain. It's probably necessary to stop the spaces being ICE'd or taken by EV's that haven't pre booked.....

Would a small keypad at or beside the space/charger to to key in an 'unlock' code (which you obtain when making the booking) be an easier proposition?

I was thinking of a QR Code you would get on your booking confirmation could be used to activate the bollard & charging this could then be scanned from your phone on arrival

kanuseeme

LoL How much is all this going to cost? FFS Norway has 50% electric sales, one charger at a hotel is not enough.

liamog

I don't think the answer is complicated bollards. For the price of installing the bollard you could rollout another dual socket charge point. It's a hotel so keep them simple at 7.2kW

robbie_63

liamog wrote: »

I don't think the answer is complicated bollards. For the price of installing the bollard you could rollout another dual socket charge point. It's a hotel so keep them simple at 7.2kW

Of course but what stops an ICE vehicle taking that space,

People will pay for convenience, being able to reserve a charging spot with your booking, guaranteed for you for your entire stay is attractive to a lot of people, especially those new to EV.

I know a lot of people who will book a specific hotel as they know they have chargers installed where they can charge their car overnight.

Anyway, I'm off to file a patent!!

markpb

robbie_63 wrote: »

Of course but what stops an ICE vehicle taking that space,

An over-provision of EV spaces with cheap 3.5kW or 7kW charge points, coupled with the hotel asking for car registration when you check-in (a lot already do) so they can contact you if you ICE a space would do the trick cheaply and reliably.

robbie_63

markpb wrote: »

An over-provision of EV spaces with cheap 3.5kW or 7kW charge points, coupled with the hotel asking for car registration when you check-in (a lot already do) so they can contact you if you ICE a space would do the trick cheaply and reliably.

Quiet you! stop making sense

ELM327

A bank of 3.7kW chargers. Or better still, a bank of locked 16a CEE and 10a 3 pin sockets, accessible from multiple spots, removes the whole problem.

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

A bank of 3.7kW chargers.

Eventually, just have one at every space......

initially, install 10, then 20, then 50%, then just do every space..

Cheap & cheerful 3.7kW units, easy/cheap to install, fix & replace...

ELM327

I agree. 16a/32a CEE plug is perfect for this purpose, doesnt even need to be anything fancy.

tDw6u1bj

Charging units themselves not really an issue, the load capacity in the hotel's electrical system is.

Kramer

cannco253 wrote: »

check out what happened to Bjorn yesterday when he arrived as his hotel, go to 23:04.

If;
1. both cars were plugged in & charging, as intended, he would still have been unable to plug in himself, or
2. 2x ICE cars were on the spots, same result or
3. if both were plugged in & one was trickle charging at 1kW while the other just been connected & was set to reach 100% SoC at 8am, same result, or
4. the charge point was inoperable/broken, same result.

Some here want:
1. strictly first come first served,
2. a reservation system (with automated bollards/keypads etc.)
3. keys to be surrendered to the hotel who will then play musical chairs with their guests' cars
4. some are vehemently against a reservation system (a private charge point, on private property, installed by a private business, remember :eek:),
5. some want the right to unplug someone else who got there first,
6. some advocate immediately unplugging your own car & moving it, even if it's at 5am & you're asleep in your hard earned & well paid for, hotel bed.
7. some want hotels to invest in upgraded grid connections with a dedicated 3kW outlet for each & every parking space
8. basically making it a criminal offence to enjoy a glass of wine with your dinner if your car is plugged in charging, while you're on your hols :pac:.

If I was a hotel owner reading this thread I'd be looking at EV owners' as a monumental headache & just saying "no, no charging facilities at this hotel, sorry".

Entitlement culture in some regards I guess .

lol funny, but yeah, just about sums it all up.

Personally I'm not bothered even asking hotel staff unless these days they are more clued in but I've asked before and they didn't even know what I was talking about so just left it be rather than trying to explain what I wanted and they then having to go and find out if the charge points can be used and then not knowing what to do etc it's just not worth the hassle. I'd rather just pull up at a DC point even if it's 50 Kw and just look at youtube on my phone than deal with all that nonsense.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

If;
If I was a hotel owner reading this thread I'd be looking at EV owners' as a monumental headache & just saying "no, no charging facilities at this hotel, sorry".

Can you go bother the petrol station down the road and ask them to install a rapid charger ...

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Can you go bother the petrol station down the road and ask them to install a rapid charger ...

We all should do that !

tDw6u1bj

Kramer wrote: »

If;

7. some want hotels to invest in upgraded grid connections with a dedicated 3kW outlet for each & every parking space

If I was a hotel owner reading this thread I'd be looking at EV owners' as a monumental headache & just saying "no, no charging facilities at this hotel, sorry".

Entitlement culture in some regards I guess .

No.7 is what will happen eventually (over the course of the next few decades).

I'm sure many hotel/business owners do and will think that, but they'll turn around one day realising it's become a basic requirement and they haven't made plans. I think it's similar to places who resisted having card machines* for so long and don't understand when people are shocked they don't have one (and probably don't even realise they're being avoided because of it).

IMO your points about "entitlement culture" contradicts your other points. The less entitled thing to do is to make an effort to be accommodating to others.


*Excluding the places which are obviously just a front.

tDw6u1bj

This thread has been a really interesting way of showing how different people have different ideas of how to function in society.

kanuseeme

I am glad it was 2 Telsa's and not 2 phev's . Some sh1tstorm then.

cannco253

Maybe it’s not until you’re in the situation yourself, you don’t really know how you’ll react. This summer will no doubt throw up a few curveballs for people and might force the issue a bit.

All fair points, nobody is forcing hotels to do anything but if they advertise charging they should understand what they’re getting into.

They were quick enough to introduce a booking system for indoor swimming pools so why not for chargers?

jusmeig

I was going to triumphantly report free parking and charging for EV owners in Connemara National Park...



Where does this sit on the etiquette scales?

mfceiling

jusmeig wrote: »

I was going to triumphantly report free parking and charging for EV owners in Connemara National Park...

https://i.ibb.co/L1sX0SV/IMG-20210625-WA0007.jpg

Where does this sit on the etiquette scales?

I presume the Volvo isn't electric?

At what point do you see a huge green space with "electric vehicle only" and think "ah this is grand for me"?

jusmeig

mfceiling wrote: »

I presume the Volvo isn't electric?

At what point do you see a huge green space with "electric vehicle only" and think "ah this is grand for me"?

Nah big diesel SUV yoke, not plugged in either way!

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

I presume the Volvo isn't electric?

At what point do you see a huge green space with "electric vehicle only" and think "ah this is grand for me"?

You honestly think the driver didn't know that's a EV charging bay, do you think for one moment they actually care ? even if you confronted them, which I advise not to, they'd do it again and again.

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You honestly think the driver didn't know that's a EV charging bay, do you think for one moment they actually care ? even if you confronted them, which I advise not to, they'd do it again and again.

That's what I mean. Like the huge green painted block with large white writing isn't enough.
I'm not comparing it to parking in a disabled spot but it's the same level of not caring.

AndyBoBandy

mfceiling wrote: »

I'm not comparing it to parking in a disabled spot but it's the same level of not caring.

It’s worse.

Though a disabled person could park somewhere else (despite being extremely inconvenient for them), an EV driver can’t charge in any other spot…..