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Help with old PC

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  • 20-06-2021 2:34pm
    #1
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks, am stuck so reaching out here.
    A friend has an approx 20Yr old PC which is running some equipment, the fear is that the PC will fail some day and thats the end of that.
    I have cloned the hard drive so we now have a spare which works but the issue I have is that I cannot read/edit the existing file structure.
    We need to access the database for the admin password to change some settings on the equipment so if anyone had an idea of how to proceed that would be great.


    Have tried to mount the disk on Ubuntu but I get contents Unknown - See here
    https://ibb.co/x72bCDZ

    Best I have done is to mount the disk on windows using using Ex2 volume manager but the information is garbled See here
    https://ibb.co/J2xhSmN


    Am pretty sure it is some sort of a linux platform so any help to point me in the right direction would be just super, thanks.


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    #2
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    The first partition on the SDD doesn't look like a linux partition, but there's very little information here.

    For a start, is it an old compaq PC?
    What kind of equipment is it running?
    Can you post a picture of the running system booting up?
    If there's a graphic pressing ESC should show you what's going on and it might even be worth filming.
    At least make notes if you see services mentioned that might be a database.

    You might want to reclone the hard drive when you get a chance - ex2 volume manger can cause some corruption and what you're seeing there doesn't look healthy.


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    #3
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Worztron


    @Big Lar Specs?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #4
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Examine the drive and its partitions using a Linux OS - maybe running as Live session. Use Gparted for a graphical view of the drive.

    I would use that session to clone the drive also.

    You could then used a clone to boot up and test for full functionality, on different hardware.

    Compaq diagnostic partitions were quite common 'back in the day', but the rest of the drive is likely where the valuable information resides.


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    #5
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,714 ✭✭✭Worztron


    I'd recommend a lighter desktop environment like LXQt or Xfce, etc. for such an old PC - certainly not something like GNOME.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #6
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    OK guys, thanks for all the replies.
    I have done some more research on this side and was able to mount the drive on linux although some files were unreadable. The platform is QNX 4.2.1
    https://blackberry.qnx.com/en

    Specs of the machine are intel celeron single core and 512Mb ram.

    Have the drive cloned but am unable to run the system on a newer/different PC as the drivers are not included, however I believe if I could upgrade the OS to a newer version of QNX then the drivers may be available and I would be able to clone the drive to a laptop.
    Also the drive system is FAT16 so this has a lot of limitations on files/database size.

    If anyone wants to see the system booting up a video is here https://1drv.ms/v/s!Al9TeSSfyojLi498eSa3oKymat0omg

    Anyone able to help or point me in the right direction ?


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    #7
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    Hi.
    Really interesting find.

    I ran qnx out of curiosity on a few machines in the 90's.
    It was easily available and even distributed on magazine cover disks.

    4.2.1 is older than the RIM/Blackberry acquisition and their newer versions are not likely to give you a good place to go.

    As you've found, modern hardware does not have drivers available in the old qnx kernel.

    You might be able to solve this by creating a virtual machine to mount and boot the disk image.

    Depending on what you need, set the emulated graphics card to be something like an old cirrus logic and the virtual network card to be an NE2000. Make the disk interface appear as an IDE rather than SATA/SCSI first time around.

    QNX will have drivers for the virtual devices and your virtualization environment will connect you to your screen and keyboard.

    What other devices does it need to run? Serial? Parallel?


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    #8
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Have you been able to run the cloned drive on the original machine?

    When running whatever Linux distro you used, on the original machine, can you get full hardware details?

    If not already installed, then install 
    inxi
    and run the following command to get the info ...
    inxi -Fxxx

    It might be possible to get somewhat similar hardware to boot the cloned drive.


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    #9
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    niallb wrote: »
    Hi.
    Really interesting find.

    What other devices does it need to run? Serial? Parallel?

    VM is my thinking also there is a paralell printer port which is used and a serial port, my thoughts were if I could get USB adapters for both of those then it would be possible workable


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    #10
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Have you been able to run the cloned drive on the original machine?

    .command to get the info ...

    It might be possible to get somewhat similar hardware to boot the cloned drive.

    The cloned IDE drive will work on the old PC as I tried it to make sure after I cloned it
    I actually bought an old Dell tower PC with serial and parallel interface and I cant get the cloned drive to boot up on that.

    As for getting the info off the old PC, to be honest I am **** scared I am only increasing the chance of failure on that each time I poke around with it. so just staying well away from that till I get something sorted


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    #11
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Big Lar wrote: »
    The cloned IDE drive will work on the old PC as I tried it to make sure after I cloned it
    I actually bought an old Dell tower PC with serial and parallel interface and I cant get the cloned drive to boot up on that.

    As for getting the info off the old PC, to be honest I am **** scared I am only increasing the chance of failure on that each time I poke around with it. so just staying well away from that till I get something sorted

    Understood ....... but you will most likely need full hardware specs to be able to duplicate the hardware unless you have success with a VM.


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    #12
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    Big Lar wrote: »
    VM is my thinking also there is a paralell printer port which is used and a serial port, my thoughts were if I could get USB adapters for both of those then it would be possible workable

    Serial port shouldn't be a problem with a USB passed through to a VM.
    Parallel might be a little tougher as it had several modes of bytes and nibbles.

    Is the parallel connection to a printer or a router or some other cutting device?


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    #13
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    I just saw that you bought an old Dell PC but can't get it to boot the disk.
    Depending on how old it is it may need the geometry details of the disk to boot off it!

    What model number is on that Dell?
    What's the original machine too?
    I can see some details on the boot up video, but the screen could do with a wipe!


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    #14
    croo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭croo


    We have an ancient CNC grinding machine in our workshop that I'm nearly positive runs QNX. It looks & acts like a command line only unix. Like you, I stay away from it as much as possible, just in case it stops! To get copies of CNC program/job files on it we bought a cheap device, from ebay, that connects via its old floppy disk controller and appears as a floppy disk device, but is actually a usb drive. A stab in the dark, but we plugged it in and it worked! It appears as a BIG floppy. We copied all the "job" files to it to get backups!

    Still if the HDD disk fails (and the guys using it tell me it's been there 25-30 years) the machine will be out of action. I'll experiment then but not before. I was told they had previously tried to clone the disks but were not successful... hence the experimenting with the floppy/usb device.


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    #15
    opus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭opus


    I got asked to take a look at the PC in an old piece of lab equipment recently. Once I was able to extract it, turned out to be a mini desktop running Windows XP. Needless to say it couldn't be fixed but luckily the supplier said whatever s/w they needed to drive the "thing" would work with Win 10 so it got replaced with another mini desktop that was lying around.

    Sounds very easy compared to some of the situations others have!

    I do remember being asked to sort out some embedded Linux box in another piece of equipment a few years back but luckily it just needed an fsck of the file system as I got the feeling I wasn't going to be allowed leave the lab 'til it was sorted :)


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    #16
    Big Lar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Big Lar


    OK, Just an update.

    Cant get the OS to boot up on VM ware so I am stopping with that.
    Cant get the OS to boot up on the old dell so am stopping with that, though possible that with either of the above I could do a ctrl-break sort of thing to a command line and play around with a few config files to get things working perfectly but no joy there as the OS just hangs on boot.
    Downloaded QNX 4.25 setup disks, tried on Dell PC and old laptop that I found here but that is not working either as above just gets so far and then stumped with drivers.
    Looked up the QNX forums and it seems that trying to port the software to QNX6 platform in not really a success at all.

    I think that my only option is, as suggested earlier: To find an old Compaq desktop with the exact same specs and try the disk image on that, but am busy now with real work for a few weeks so will try that this option in a month or so's time.

    Will update.


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    #17
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    I'll keep an eye out for you in a month so.
    One final thing for your own peace of mind is that when you clone the hard drive put that cloned drive somewhere safe and do any testing on a second copy.
    At least then if the system fails some day you've a good chance to get it back up.

    You could do with answering some of the specific questions here such as the model numbers of the compaq and the dell.
    It would really help to know exactly what the device you're trying to control is too.

    If you were getting to the point of a command line on the Dell a lot of the hardware is likely working.
    An old graphics card may be all you need to get the display up. Could cost a fiver.
    Just try to get to such a command line. If you do, the disk driver is working to get you this far.

    Messing around with porting to QNX6 or even upgrading to 4.2.5 is much harder than getting an alternative machine working.

    VMware is probably not a good choice for VM in this case - you're looking to emulate a really old system,
    so it's unlikely to just work with default settings.
    What have you tried?
    Have you tried to install the QNX setup disks on the VM you're using? If that won't work it won't boot your OS image.
    As johnboy1951 asked earlier, boot linux again and get a list of the actual hardware in your original PC.

    Check your configuration. Make sure you're choosing an IDE interface and not SCSI or SATA.
    Check which graphics card you're emulating too and use the most basic you can find - cirrus logic may work.
    SCSI May well work, but you'll have to choose an older adaptec emulation and I don't think your original machine had this fitted.


    I've managed to boot the QNX demo disk from the 1990's on virtualbox but the oldest network card it supported out of the box was way too new.
    I had to add a virtual floppy drive controller to get the image started.
    It lists the hardware supported which is going to be close to what you need.
    CPU: 386
    MEM: 8M plus
    NETWORK: NE1000 (not even NE2000) DEC 21x4x, or 3com 509
    VIDEO: VGA or VESA 2.0

    qemu is likely to produce a virtual machine that will run this image, but it'll need a compatible BIOS rom and a fair bit of setup.
    A lot easier than tracking down the people who wrote this and getting them to rewrite it for a newer version of QNX!


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    #18
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I have some really old gear I have not yet dumped which includes old graphics cards amongst other stuff.
    But without the full hardware spec of the present machine I have no clue if anything thing is useful.

    Is it old enough to have ISA slots? :)

    Obviously its environment is not near ideal.
    I would be inclined to blow out the dust and clean out the grime that must be inside.


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    #19
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,466 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Big Lar wrote: »
    OK, Just an update.

    Cant get the OS to boot up on VM ware so I am stopping with that.
    From experience of getting an ancient OS, Banyan Vines, working on VMware, I had to go into the BIOS and manually set the drive geometry, cylinders, heads, sectors per track to get it to boot. Could be worth a try.


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    #20
    niallb
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭niallb


    Alun wrote: »
    ..Banyan Vines...

    Very long time sine I've seen those words!

    Setting the CHS on the VM may well be necessary, but it could also be needed on the Dell machine and the Compaq if it's a different drive to the original.

    The Cylinder Heads and Sectors should be noted on the hard drive itself.


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    #21
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,466 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    niallb wrote: »
    Very long time sine I've seen those words!
    I can imagine! I was something of a Vines specialist back in the 90s. Was used a lot in local government in the Netherlands where I was based at the time. A great system that was ahead of it's time, but failed to move with it unfortunately.


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