Kerry footballers smash someone's head in. €400 fine.

fly_agaric

ineedeuro wrote: »

We could, but that would mean more investment in the services which doesn't seem to be a priority. Installing tagging etc would mean they need people to monitor, will they try and get an already underfunded Gardai to do it?

The problem here is that people know the threat doesn't actually exist, hence why you have criminals racking up 100's of crimes and still not anywhere near a jail.

Agree. As always it is more resources needed either way.
Would think the prison service/justice should be in charge of an expanded community service/tagging/monitoring programme. It is part of punishment & rehabilitation after someone is convicted and the guards have alot of other stuff to be doing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One other thing: how come people who claim their assaults were the result of drink are never forced to do alcohol-awateness programs?

Blackjack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Don't see how you can not get a criminal record for assault, regardless of the judge. This could backfire on them big time.

There's form in this regard with GAA players, not just in Kerry.

accensi0n

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

One other thing: how come people who claim their assaults were the result of drink are never forced to do alcohol-awateness programs?

Too impatient.

Muahahaha

Hadleigh Gentle Snot wrote: »

There is a real problem with sentencing bias in Ireland. In my opinion decent people who make a mistake are more likely to have correct sentencing applied for the gravity of the situation.

Does anyone actually stand back and review the performance of judges?

At this stage we would be better off just taking sentencing out of the hands of judges. There is an alternative whereby after a conviction sentences are decided upon by sentencing committees made up of ordinary citizens. They are only given the facts of the case, they dont know the names or details of the accused or the location the crime happened. So by using sentencing commitees justice is truly blind and you remove the sentencing bias of the judge from the equation altogether.

As for reviewing performances of judges it almost never happens. I remember a few years back Judge Martin Nolan came under some heat for his sentencing decisions particulary in relation to crimes of a sexual nature. iirc the straw that broke the camels back was him allowing a man who had dragged a girl into a bush and raped her pay her money in order to avoid a prison sentence. To get him out of the public eye they moved him to the Family Courts where hearings are held in secret. He served his penance and is now back in the Dublin Circuit Court where his lenient sentences continue. I wouldnt mind but the guy is a former Garda yet he is one of the softest judges out there especially when it comes to sexual crimes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blackjack wrote: »

There's form in this regard with GAA players, not just in Kerry.

Nothing to do with the GAA and nothing to do with Kerry - you see this excuse used all the time in court.

So why aren't they sent on awareness courses?

Necro

coolisin wrote: »

Listen all for the GAA enjoy watching matches and all that it has done for various places all over the country.

However this sh1t of these where good lads, played a few good games for the kingdom in the article and now the cheek to appeal a light sentence. Nah f**k off.
That goes for all players and role models, you can be a tough prick on the pitch leave it there.

This mans kids where scared of his face after you punched him in it, you did that much damage to a middle age man his kids wouldn't touch him. I cannot imagine the upset that caused.

This case of they are from a good family, with good prospects is not the first time that defence has being given, but it needs to be stopped.
Same with the racist lad tweeting at Ian Wright, "ah sure hes a grand lad when you look past the nazi memorabilia on his wall"

Blackjack wrote: »

There's form in this regard with GAA players, not just in Kerry.

I advise you both to read the below mod warning before contributing to the thread again

Necro wrote: »

Ok I'm reopening this thread after cleaning it up a bit and moving it to the correct forum for discussion.


Stay on topic and post in a civil manner. That means discuss the incident.

This is not a wider discussion on the GAA, there's a forum dedicated to that.


Now we have set a few ground rules that some posters don't seem to want to follow prior to this, discussion can continue.

Darc19

Can't believe they are appealing the conviction. they run the risk of a much tougher sentence.

This is not about the GAA, it's about the thought of entitlement by two young men who are "known" in a sporting sense in an area. It happens to be GAA in Kerry, it could be soccer in Dundalk or Rugby in Limerick.

They seem to think that as they are looked up to by others, that they should get far less punishment than someone else. Personally I think it should be the opposite and a far heavier sentence is required - but currently they are setting an example that violence and smashing someone's head in to a state that they are unrecognisable has no real consequences.

ineedeuro

Darc19 wrote: »

Can't believe they are appealing the conviction. they run the risk of a much tougher sentence.

This is not about the GAA, it's about the thought of entitlement by two young men who are "known" in a sporting sense in an area. It happens to be GAA in Kerry, it could be soccer in Dundalk or Rugby in Limerick.

They seem to think that as they are looked up to by others, that they should get far less punishment than someone else. Personally I think it should be the opposite and a far heavier sentence is required - but currently they are setting an example that violence and smashing someone's head in to a state that they are unrecognisable has no real consequences.

They don’t run the risk, no chance a judge is going to give them a longer sentence

paul71

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Big difference, plenty of professional athletes can be scary during the course of their sport, but gentleman off the pitch...

Johny Hendricks off UFC and bare Knuckle boxing fame, is proper scary but his so well spoken and up standing member of society...

I find their is a sence of entitlement that GAA and Rugby players have in this country that is scary

Do you? Yet we have a convicted rapist playing professional league of Ireland football having served no time. We have an "Irish sportstar" with several assault convictions and worse that have not seen the courts who is still wandering arround.

Outside of that a scumbag wandering Australia and kicking **** out of people there after a 2 year sentance here for kicking a poor lad to death in Westmeath.

This has nothing to do with Rugby or GAA and everything to do with the court system.

tipptom

BPKS wrote: »

I'm delighted that nobody here has done anything stupid when they were young.

Unfortunately I got into a few scrapes with pints on board when I was younger. Some my fault, some not.

I'd like to think that I probably wouldn't pass smart remarks to a few young fellas when I was going home p1ssed on a Sunday evening at my age now either.

What evidence have you that the two older men passed smart remarks to the three younger men or that the two older men were p1ssed?

I dont see anything from the court case where the young lads defence said they had been provoked by smart comments passed by the older men.

N958GB

At least the judge imposed a criminal conviction which it what they deserved and will affect their lives. The compensation payout should have been higher. No previous convictions was taken into account which it should have been. The real punishment is the lasting criminal conviction.

walshb

Jail sentence?

What?

Sure isn’t the man alive?!…😖

gmisk

Darc19 wrote: »

Effin joke.

These two scumbags smash a totally innocent persons head in and are probably laughing at a €400 fine

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-has-changed-my-life-victim-speaks-out-as-two-kerry-footballers-convicted-of-assault-40562953.html


Their excuse, it was the drink that did it, and they actually wanted to get off Scot free by throwing up a few quid "compensation"

"(There is) no open cheque book to buy your way out of a conviction," he said.

Errrr

dobman88

https://twitter.com/Aidanthehack/status/1407968649269350402?s=19

pinkfloyd34

It is slowly dawning on the gaa that their friends in the guards can't sweep stuff under the carpet like they used too so now they have to bribe their victims. Fair play to the victim for not accepting the bribe and seeing it through the courts.

The_Kew_Tour

dobman88 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Aidanthehack/status/1407968649269350402?s=19

The Kerry gaa lads had no problem lashing into Dublin for training in COVID, I doubt they be as strong on this though as usual.

beakerjoe

Theres no place in sport for thugs like this. Simple as. If Kerry GAA had any morals they would come out and ban the players for being convicted to assault.

It would send a message that this behaviour is not accepted.

And if the allegations if bribery are true , it all depends who these GAA figures are. One can only assume its figures in either Kerry GAA or at the convicts club level.

Sunny Disposition

I think it'd be very common in assault cases for the guilty party to pay a significant sum to the victim to keep it from proceeding in court. I know a couple of people who accepted similar payments. I don't know is it fair to tarnish them too much for making an offer.
On an aside, the late night drink fuelled assaults seemed to decline after the Celtic Tiger, obviously there haven't been any over the last year and a half, but it does seem to happen a bit less often than it did in the early to mid 2000s. Probably one positive from the decline in pub culture.

Muahahaha

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I think it'd be very common in assault cases for the guilty party to pay a significant sum to the victim to keep it from proceeding in court. I know a couple of people who accepted similar payments. I don't know is it fair to tarnish them too much for making an offer.

Im not denying it goes on but it sounds like an attempt to pervert the course of justice to me. From the article "The GAA figures offered to pay him to withdraw his statements to the Gardai".

The Gardai were already involved at that point so they are obliged to carry out a full investigation. Getting the victim to withdraw his statement in exchange for money during that investigation is seeking to frustrate the Garda investigation and pervert the course of justice.

tritium

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not denying it goes on but it sounds like an attempt to pervert the course of justice to me. From the article "GAA figures

I’d have said the same. I’d wonder if the guards don’t have an obligation to follow up if there was an attempt to tamper with a witness or get them to withdraw a criminal complaint. If this becomes more than a local story it could become very big indeed

beakerjoe

tritium wrote: »

I’d have said the same. I’d wonder if the guards don’t have an obligation to follow up if there was an attempt to tamper with a witness or get them to withdraw a criminal complaint. If this becomes more than a local story it could become very big indeed

Well if the victim alleges he was bribed, and from the article it appears he knows who attempted to bribe him, surely AGS have an obligation to at least follow up.

Feisar

beakerjoe wrote: »

Well if the victim alleges he was bribed, and from the article it appears he knows who attempted to bribe him, surely AGS have an obligation to at least follow up.

I don't know if there is a problem with a payment to keep it out of court. Lots of things are settled on the steps as they say.

Muahahaha

tritium wrote: »

I’d have said the same. I’d wonder if the guards don’t have an obligation to follow up if there was an attempt to tamper with a witness or get them to withdraw a criminal complaint. If this becomes more than a local story it could become very big indeed

Yeah well trying to influence an investigation with money is definitely problematic. But as there seems to be nothing on paper and the bribe was offered verbally it would be very difficult to prove,it would be just one persons word against another. Though there was a second attempt to bribe him via a family member so there is a witness.

beakerjoe

Feisar wrote: »

I don't know if there is a problem with a payment to keep it out of court. Lots of things are settled on the steps as they say.

Its a criminal case, so its unlawful to offer money or blackmail a victim to withdraw a statement.

SeaFields

Feisar wrote: »

I don't know if there is a problem with a payment to keep it out of court. Lots of things are settled on the steps as they say.

Yeah that's civil cases. Not criminal

gormdubhgorm

Darc19 wrote: »

Effin joke.

These two scumbags smash a totally innocent persons head in and are probably laughing at a €400 fine

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/it-has-changed-my-life-victim-speaks-out-as-two-kerry-footballers-convicted-of-assault-40562953.html


Their excuse, it was the drink that did it, and they actually wanted to get off Scot free by throwing up a few quid "compensation"

Happens for all individuals regardless of which sport they partake in:

See former Rugby star Shane Horgan back in 1999 when he broke a doorman's cheekbone. Horgan was a very high profile star at the time. And around the same age as the two Kerry lads would have been in this incident.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-rugby-star-admits-to-nightclub-assault-charge-26101953.html

A settlement was made by Horgan as compensation and the probation act was applied

The problem here OP appears not to be the judicial system nor the fine in your example. Judging by the tone of this thread, it appears most of the upset is because of the fact that they are in the public eye and have a profile. A few posters no doubt will use the incident to attack the GAA etc etc.

When you strip it all back they are young lads who were drunk and involved incidents they should not have been involved in. Because of their high profile it gets picked up by the media. However, unlike high profile young lads in the media, most of these scenarios do not bring about the same 'outrage' level of comment.

The real issue should not be the profile of the individuals, but Irish people's relationship with alcohol particularly young lads.

beakerjoe

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When you strip it all back they are young lads who were drunk and involved incidents they should not have been involved in.

Well...... thats a way of putting it.

Ive been drunk as a young lad and never assualted anyone. I never had the notion to attack anyone when drunk.

When you strip it out, its self entitled drunks who viciously assaulted someone unprovoked for their own kicks. My outrage isnt at the GAA or anyone else, its directed at the 2 lads who deserve to be punished more severely than what the courts handed out.

gormdubhgorm

beakerjoe wrote: »

Well...... thats a way of putting it.

Ive been drunk as a young lad and never assualted anyone. I never had the notion to attack anyone when drunk.

When you strip it out, its self entitled drunks who viciously assaulted someone unprovoked for their own kicks. My outrage isnt at the GAA or anyone else, its directed at the 2 lads who deserve to be punished more severely than what the courts handed out.

They brought 5000 euro with them as compensation:

'Both pleaded guilty to the charge and brought €5,000 to court in compensation for the victim.'

Similar to the Shane Horgan case back in 1999.
The probation act was the right thing to do in that case as it would not give the accused a record.

Yes I do realise that most people can get drunk and not assault anyone. But it is more likely to happen when people are intoxicated that is a fact of life.
How many times have you witnessed altercations on a night out which the root cause was too much alcohol?

I am not excusing the behaviour just pointing out the well known fact of it.

Also you mention that the accused should have been punished more severely.

If you were the judge and looked at the two defendants, no previous convictions, showed remorse, willing to provide 5000 euro to the accused as compensation - what sentence would you think was appropriate?

To me your 'outrage' seems a bit hyperbolic. This type of incident happens regularly in Ireland taking up court time.

beakerjoe

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also you mention that the accused should have been punished more severely.

If you were the judge and looked at the two defendants, no previous convictions, showed remorse, willing to provide 5000 euro to the accused as compensation - what sentence would you think was appropriate?

To me your 'outrage' seems a bit hyperbolic. This type of incident happens regularly in Ireland taking up court time.

Its happens regularly because there are no consequences. Our Justice system is flawed and I believe if you assault someone, esp in a vicious manner like this, a 1 year sentence isnt asking too much.

Sure I can just assault someone now, and once I "show remorse" and pay my way, I can get away with it.

Its wrong. These lads should be punished further than a small fine and a "dont do it again" message.