First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

yourdeadwright

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Or we could just keep women in women's sports and men in men's sports like how it was intended ha!! There should be no in-between unless its clearly a mixed gender event.

,
I said change it so everyone can realise how stupid it is and go back to men v men & women v women ,

How Soon Is Now

volchitsa wrote: »

I think there’s a sort of euphemistic approach that has caused confusion: if we called it single sex and mixed sex, rather than mixed gender, we would be halfway to the solution.

Let trans people live their lives the way they want, we don’t have to “misgender” them, we can call them she or they or whatever they like, but that doesn’t have to affect competitions, school toilets etc because they can be single sex, not single gender.

Job done, everyone should should be happy.

Its simple really if your born a woman you will take part in sports set out for women. If your born a man you play with the men. It doesn't matter what you wanna call yourself one day it changes nothing otherwise why bother separating lets just have everyone play together and we can sort the battle of the sexes once and for all!! haha.

How Soon Is Now

yourdeadwright wrote: »

,
I said change it so everyone can realise how stupid it is and go back to men v men & women v women ,

I know what you meant sorry ha. I didn't mean it directed at you personally just meant to sum it up.

suicide_circus

The question is:

Is Hubbard competing in the women's competition the inevitable consequence of using preferred pronouns?

BluePlanet

What do the sex segregationists believe ought to happen to trans athletes?

Do you really think someone born male and transitioned to female, including sex change operation, years of hormone therapy and god knows what else, should compete in the Mens section? Boobs and all?

Get real that is absurd.
But i do see how triggering it must be for folks invested in sex segregation.

One eyed Jack

suicide_circus wrote: »

The question is:

Is Hubbard competing in the women's competition the inevitable consequence of using preferred pronouns?

I don’t think so, Hubbard competing in the women’s competitions appears to be the inevitable consequence of the IOC changing the eligibility and qualifying criteria for transgender athletes to compete in competitions.

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Its simple really if your born a woman you will take part in sports set out for women. If your born a man you play with the men. It doesn't matter what you wanna call yourself one day it changes nothing otherwise why bother separating lets just have everyone play together and we can sort the battle of the sexes once and for all!! haha.

I think if I had been born a man, my mother would have had something to say about it, after she’d recovered from giving birth to a man :pac:

harmless

suicide_circus wrote: »

The question is:

Is Hubbard competing in the women's competition the inevitable consequence of using preferred pronouns?

No it is a consequence of the fact that they demand to be legally identified as a woman.

Let this play out if this is the direction the Olympic Committee wish to go. Everyone will tune in for this spectacle.

However when it eventually gets to the point where you must be transgender to stand a chance in any women's category of Olympic sport I can see the fans and other athletes giving up in frustration.

Where do the Olympic Committee go from there, we know how hungry they are for money. Sponsorship money follows the fans.

How Soon Is Now

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t think so, Hubbard competing in the women’s competitions appears to be the inevitable consequence of the IOC changing the eligibility and qualifying criteria for transgender athletes to compete in competitions.





I think if I had been born a man, my mother would have had something to say about it, after she’d recovered from giving birth to a man :pac:

Ya know what I meant haha.

How Soon Is Now

BluePlanet wrote: »

What do the sex segregationists believe ought to happen to trans athletes?

Do you really think someone born male and transitioned to female, including sex change operation, years of hormone therapy and god knows what else, should compete in the Mens section? Boobs and all?

Get real that is absurd.
But i do see how triggering it must be for folks invested in sex segregation.

Give them there own section.

One eyed Jack

volchitsa wrote: »

I think there’s a sort of euphemistic approach that has caused confusion: people didn’t want to say the word sex so they used gender when they really meant sex.

So we got past our embarrassment and said single sex and mixed sex, rather than mixed gender, we would be halfway to the solution.

Let trans people live their lives the way they want, we don’t have to “misgender” them, we can call them she or they or whatever they like, but that doesn’t have to affect competitions, school toilets etc because they can be single sex, not single gender.

Job done, everyone should should be happy.

I think you’ve just inserted a euphemistic confusion tbh. Most people in my experience use the terms sex and gender interchangeably referring to the same thing and other people understand exactly what they mean, whether they’re referring to single sex schools, or single gender schools, single sex bathrooms, unisex bathrooms, single sex competitions, same sex marriage referendum when referring to the marriage equality referendum… I’m really not seeing much evidence of anyone embarrassed to use the word sex.

Very gracious of you too btw to suggest that anyone ‘let’ transgender people live their lives the way they want, as long as it’s on your terms and not theirs, as though they don’t have as much right to determine how they choose to live their lives as you do without asking for anyone’s permission to live your life the way you want.

BluePlanet

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Give them there own section.

I'm pretty sure there are not enough trans athletes to create a competition like this.

suicide_circus

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t think so, Hubbard competing in the women’s competitions appears to be the inevitable consequence of the IOC changing the eligibility and qualifying criteria for transgender athletes to compete in competitions.

And what are the societal circumstances that lead to that decision. These things are inextricably linked.

Gatling

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Its simple really if your born a woman you will take part in sports set out for women. If your born a man you play with the men. It doesn't matter what you wanna call yourself one day it changes nothing otherwise why bother separating lets just have everyone play together and we can sort the battle of the sexes once and for all!! haha.

Exactly this point ,

Why can't they either complete with just transmen or in men's categories rather in categories which they will dominate women in alot of cases women will stop competiting for reasons of A being pushed out and B competiting against men in women's sports .
It's nothing to do with inclusion either

How Soon Is Now

BluePlanet wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are not enough trans athletes to create a competition like this.

I know that's the thing but they should consider that as a sportsperson that maybe that's the end of there career if they decide they no longer want to identify as whatever.

BluePlanet

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I know that's the thing but they should consider that as a sportsperson that maybe that's the end of there career if they decide they no longer want to identify as whatever.

What about people that change sex at an earlier age, pre puberty?
Are they all forever categorized against their will?

How Soon Is Now

Gatling wrote: »

Exactly this point ,

Why can't they either complete with just transmen or in men's categories rather in categories which they will dominate women in alot of cases women will stop competiting for reasons of A being pushed out and B competiting against men in women's sports .
It's nothing to do with inclusion either

I mean I wouldn't be allowed join a women's football team right now at this moment would I? So what's the difference in someone who was born and lived as a male the vast majority of there life who has all the physical ability's and strength of a man deciding ya I'm gonna play with the women now.


Its bull****.

How Soon Is Now

BluePlanet wrote: »

What about people that change sex at an earlier age, pre puberty?
Are they all forever categorized against their will?

What age we talking here?

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

What about people that change sex at an earlier age, pre puberty?
Are they all forever categorized against their will?

"Changing sex" is not something that is possible with the technology we currently possess.

McFly85

BluePlanet wrote: »

What about people that change sex at an earlier age, pre puberty?
Are they all forever categorized against their will?

It’s an interesting question. If someone had transitioned from puberty, and had been competing against women for their entire career, is it fair that they would have to compete against someone who transitioned later in life who’s body had developed differently?

Gentlemanne

NoLuckLarry wrote: »

Not in the slightest, in fact it's disingenious to even try and compare Trans to the civil rights movements orLGB rights. Nothing alike.

Nothing alike? Nothing?

NoLuckLarry

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Nothing alike? Nothing?

Nope.

BluePlanet

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

What age we talking here?

Like 12.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2835184&page=1

One eyed Jack

suicide_circus wrote: »

And what are the societal circumstances that lead to that decision. These things are inextricably linked.

The societal circumstances which led to that decision were that Chris Mosier campaigned for the IOC to change their eligibility criteria to allow transgender athletes to partake in competitions without having to meet criteria which were outlined in 2004, restrictions which it was successfully argued unfairly discriminated against transgender athletes.

The societal circumstances which led to that decision were that previously transgender athletes had to meet much stricter criteria in order to be eligible to partake in competitions. The decisions of the IOC have never based upon considerations of the pronouns athletes used to refer to themselves, not even when it was successfully argued that the sex testing the IOC used to determine eligibility should no longer be used in 2016 when Dutee Chand was successful in challenging the ban imposed upon her from partaking in elite sports competitions -


Sex testing for female Olympic athletes is a thing of the past (at least for now)


The societal circumstances which led to that decision, were still nothing to do with anyone wishing to be referred to using their preferred pronouns, but had plenty to do with successfully arguing that the eligibility criteria and the testing were a violation of human rights.

The societal circumstances which led to transgender athletes competing in women’s sports competitions being portrayed as a threat to women’s sports are a direct consequence of women being regarded as inferior to men in every respect in many societies across the world, and thereby justifying all sorts of rules and social norms which were meant to limit their equal participation in society as a consequence of being portrayed as the fairer sex.

suicide_circus

Disagree

One eyed Jack

suicide_circus wrote: »

Disagree

It was never actually the question then as you appear to have already had your answer. I don’t expect you to share it, but you could at least give a warning before you ask what turns out to be a stupid question when you already have your answer.

How Soon Is Now

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I mean I wouldn't be allowed join a women's football team right now at this moment would I?

Not right this moment. But if you filled in a form for a gender recognition certificate, then yes, you would be able to join a women's football team, exactly as you are right now.

How Soon Is Now

BluePlanet wrote: »

Like 12.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2835184&page=1

Me personally I don't believe anyone who decides there something different to what they where born in this case a male or female should be considered that.


So if they decide to change something that cant and shouldnt be changed then there situation shouldn't be as simple as I'm a girl now I'm gonna go play with the girls!

Gentlemanne

NoLuckLarry wrote: »

Nope.

Its literally a movement that involves trans people, with prominent historical trans figures that fought for the rights of all gender and sexual minorities. Inextricably linked.

It's making me feel embarassed that anyone could argue that LGBT rights have nothing to do with T. During pride month even..

How Soon Is Now

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Its literally a movement that involves trans people, with prominent historical trans figures that fought for the rights of all gender and sexual minorities. Inextricably linked.

It's making me feel embarassed that anyone could argue that LGBT rights have nothing to do with T. During pride month even..

Are all transsexual people gay?

suicide_circus

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It was never actually the question then as you appear to have already had your answer. I don’t expect you to share it, but you could at least give a warning before you ask what turns out to be a stupid question when you already have your answer.

A rhetorical question yes and not one that was ever specifically aimed at you. Not my fault you cant stop yourself being exhaustingly verbose in outlining your frankly wacky takes on this issue.