First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

How Soon Is Now

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I think the idea of segregating sports into male and female is discriminatory and something we should have moved on from in 2021.

We should really be looking at men and women (and anyone else) competing against each other in the same competitions. It seems the only way to have true equality in sports.

If you think putting men up against women in sport is gonna create equality then I wonder how much sport you're actually watching.

What else is there other than men and women?

Capt'n Midnight

Laurel Hubbard weighs 131Kg which puts her in the 87Kg and over class for women.

Had she remained a man it would not have been possible to compete in the men's 96 kg or 109 kg.
And would have to compete in the 109 kg and over.

Sue de Nimes

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If you think putting men up against women in sport is gonna create equality then I wonder how much sport you're actually watching.

What else is there other than men and women?

This is 2021. Men and women are equal. They should be able to compete against each other surely?

jam_mac_jam

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

This is 2021. Men and women are equal. They should be able to compete against each other surely?

They are not equal physically. That's why there are separate sports.

If they weren't women would be unable to compete in any sport.

Yes equality.

FileNotFound

I remember seeing stats on male v female Tennis (focus being williams sisters in their prime).

When they did statistical comparison, ball speed, % returns at x ball speed, ground speed, and loads more I cannot remember, the better of the Williams sisters was essentially equal to a rank 500+ male tennis player.

Now its ages since i saw the piece so unsure how well laid out it was, but thats essentially saying someone who dominated womens tennis would fail to make 3rd level male competitions.


Even if this is exaggerated (may well have been) there is a staggering gap - in sport trans (male to female) have basically had hormone therapy for X% of their life to build a stronger frame than their female counterpart. If a female athlete had done this they would likely be banned from sport for cheating.


Thats where this gets me.

OMM 0000

This is the equality the left are asking for.

Are you guys finally going to start thinking things through or is this still not enough?

One eyed Jack

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Laurel Hubbard weighs 131Kg which puts her in the 87Kg and over class for women.

He would not be able to compete in the men's 96 kg or 109 kg.
And would have to compete in the 109 kg and over.

He would also not be able to compete in the IWF 89Kg or 96Kg or 102Khg or 109Kg classes either. Just the +109Kg one.

I had to look up just for comparison sake to put those figures into some perspective or context. There does appear to be a relationship between the weight of competitors and the weight they’re lifting, and it would appear that Hubbard has a ways to go yet -


When it comes to the deadlift, an untrained 132-pound woman should be able to lift around 74 pounds. After training for 3 to 9 months, about 137 pounds. At an intermediate level after a year or two of training, 159 pounds. How about at the highest level of training? Elite women at that weight can dead-lift 273 pounds.


Strength-Training: How Much Weight Can the Average Woman Lift?


According to Wiki, Hubbard can lift 145kg (I know, deadlift/snatch - different lifts) -


At the 2017 Australian International & Australian Open in Melbourne, she competed at the heaviest 90 kg+ category, winning the gold medal with a 123 kg snatch and 145 kg clean & jerk, for a total of 268 kg at a bodyweight of 131.83 kg.


Laurel Hubbard


Had to sit down reading this as my legs near went from underneath me :pac:


The strongwoman world record for the deadlift going into today was 605 pounds (275 kg) by Melissa Edwards. Thompson wasted no time going for that record either. Her opening lift was 616 pounds (280 kg) and she completed it easily. With the record now in her possession, the only question was how high it would be set.

Her second attempt was the 290 kg lift which was also a success. This made the second time this year that she set a world record twice in the same day. That would ultimately be where the record stands for now. Thompson did attempt 661 pounds (300 kg) twice, but was unable to complete those attempts.


Andrea Thompson Sets Strongwoman Deadlift World Record With 290 KG Lift


Article from 2016 so she would be 38 now -


Andrea Thompson, 33, took up strength training two years ago and competed in the gruelling five event competition on August 21, where she won four of the events.

Mrs Thompson, a self-confessed former ‘big girl’, who is an assistant bar manager in Melton, Suffolk, spends an hour and a half, four times a week lifting weights.

She currently weighs 120kg, over 18 stone and is 5ft5 tall, she normally eats around 3,000 calories packed full of protein and good carbs which she ups to 3,500 in preparation for a competition.

The strongest woman in Britain lost four stones in nine months for the wedding - but has since gained back more weight in pure muscle.

She decided to get in shape when she was asked to be a bridesmaid and after joining her local CrossFit class, this encouraged to explore her super strength.

Mrs Thompson said: “When I was at CrossFit people started saying to me ‘wow, you’re so strong’, and I was encouraged to find a competition to get involved in.

“I came across Britain’s Strongest Woman last year and found a trainer but he was confused as to why I wanted to go because women train for years to compete in it.

“But after six weeks of training, I came third and then it turned into a bit of a lifestyle change and now 18 months later I have taken the crown."


Mother crowned Britain’s Strongest Woman after deadlifting the equivalent of a HIPPO

BloodBath

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I think the idea of segregating sports into male and female is discriminatory and something we should have moved on from in 2021.

We should really be looking at men and women (and anyone else) competing against each other in the same competitions. It seems the only way to have true equality in sports.

What you are suggesting would kill women in sports completely. They can't compete at the top level vs men. That is reality. There's nothing discriminatory about it. Hormones have a huge effect on strength, conditioning and physical attributes with testosterone being the biggest player.

If you don't have a clue what you are talking about maybe you shouldn't have an opinion on the matter.

I will enjoy watching both the mens and womens events in the Olympics this year. If it was mixed there wouldn't be many women competing at all.

jmayo

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If you think putting men up against women in sport is gonna create equality then I wonder how much sport you're actually watching.

What else is there other than men and women?

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

This is 2021. Men and women are equal. They should be able to compete against each other surely?

Jaysus fook.

It is getting tiresome now.
People with no fooking idea of sport never mind biology are trying to set the discourse.

We have gotten to a stage where anyone that claims they are a woman can now it seems compete against women if they can find an authority that are willing to cowtow to this lunacy.

Fair enough Larry wants to be called Lauren.
Fair enough he wants to take hormones, possibly get his male genitals removed and get double Ds done by the lads on Botched tv program.
Fair enough she now wants to play hide the sausage with some other lad or be lesbian with some woman.

Lauren can knock herself out.

But don't lets fooking pretend that Lauren is the same as the other women in the weight lifting or any other physical sport where women solely normally compete.

It is time Lauren realised that biology means she has to still compete with the lads.

Yeah people will complain it is not fair on her.

But why should one person be accommodated at the expense of hundreds if not thousands of others.

It is the fooking tiny tail wagging the big dog at this stage.

One eyed Jack

BloodBath wrote: »

What you are suggesting would kill women in sports completely. They can't compete at the top level vs men. That is reality. There's nothing discriminatory about it. Hormones have a huge effect on strength, conditioning and physical attributes with testosterone being the biggest player.

If you don't have a clue what you are talking about maybe you shouldn't have an opinion on the matter.

I will enjoy watching both the mens and womens events in the Olympics this year. If it was mixed there wouldn't be many women competing at all.

Have you any evidence whatsoever to support your claim of what would in your opinion, be an inevitable outcome? You’re arguing as though it’s a foregone conclusion so you must have some evidence of men competing in women’s sports killing off the sport?

Plenty of men can’t compete at the top level with men, plenty of men can’t compete at the top level with women. Without being given the opportunity, you simply have no idea what would happen. For what it’s worth, it was precisely because women historically weren’t permitted to compete in sports with men that they set about organising their own sports, until the Olympic committee as it was at the time came to an agreement to permit women to participate in the Olympics, and what would you know, women’s participation in sports increased as a result, not decreased, as you claim would be an inevitable outcome.

You wouldn’t be watching any women’s events at all at the Olympics if men at the time who wanted to exclude women from participating in the Olympics had had everything their way, but that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been any women’s sports.

nullzero

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I think the idea of segregating sports into male and female is discriminatory and something we should have moved on from in 2021.

We should really be looking at men and women (and anyone else) competing against each other in the same competitions. It seems the only way to have true equality in sports.

Men versus women in Boxing or UFC would in your mind be the ultimate expression of equality then?

BloodBath

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Have you any evidence whatsoever to support your claim of what would in your opinion, be an inevitable outcome? You’re arguing as though it’s a foregone conclusion so you must have some evidence of men competing in women’s sports killing off the sport?

Plenty of men can’t compete at the top level with men, plenty of men can’t compete at the top level with women. Without being given the opportunity, you simply have no idea what would happen. For what it’s worth, it was precisely because women historically weren’t permitted to compete in sports with men that they set about organising their own sports, until the Olympic committee as it was at the time came to an agreement to permit women to participate in the Olympics, and what would you know, women’s participation in sports increased as a result, not decreased, as you claim would be an inevitable outcome.

You wouldn’t be watching any women’s events at all at the Olympics if men at the time who wanted to exclude women from participating in the Olympics had had everything their way, but that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been any women’s sports.

I took you off ignore just to see what your comment was and I'm sorry I did.

The usual drivel. The evidence is every measurable variable and world record that put's men ahead because of their physical advantages because of the power of testosterone.

There may be some less physically demanding sports where you could mix and we have had some females doing ok against men in some sports like a US nascar driver and a UK darts player, but for the majority men just have an unfair advantage which is why it's still segregated.

bewareofthedog

The fact that is happening or less still even being semi debated about shows how strong the grip the lunatics have over the asylum

A complete and utter farce - anyone who can sit here and defend it is either being disingenuous/morally bankrupt or has been brainwashed

Can how anyone defend someone who is clearly built like a male tank taking the spot over that poor 21 year old girl who's dreams have presumably been crushed? Shame on you

It's ironic cause many progressive types claim the right to be anti science and not highly educated, pot meet kettle. I guess they're highly educated in pseudo woke science

One eyed Jack

nullzero wrote: »

Men versus women in Boxing or UFC would in your mind be the ultimate expression of equality then?

The point is that they shouldn’t be denied the opportunity to do so if they wish to -


Jackie Tonawanda, dubbed "The Female Ali" of the 1970s and 1980s, can be considered among the pioneers of female professional boxing. She was, after all, one of the three women who successfully filed suit against the New York State Athletic Commission to be issued a boxing license. Jackie further cemented her legendary status on June 8, 1975 when she became the first female boxer to fight in Madison Square Garden. Shockingly, her opponent at the Aaron Bank's Oriental World of Self-Defense was a male, kick-boxer Larry Rodania. Even more impressively, Tonawanda won the bout via a second-round knockout.


It’s either that, or competitive eating -


10 Memorable Times Women Beat Men in Sports

OMM 0000

bewareofthedog wrote: »

Can how anyone defend someone who is clearly built like a male tank taking the spot over that poor 21 year old girl who's dreams have presumably been crushed? Shame on you

Remember, half the population has a double digit IQ.

Some people are also incredibly dishonest.

Low intelligence + dishonesty = virtue signalling in the hope people will think you have value.

What these people don't realise is the only people on their side are the other dishonest, low intelligence virtue signallers. Everyone else just thinks they're painful morons.

BloodBath

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The point is that they shouldn’t be denied the opportunity to do so if they wish to -


Jackie Tonawanda, dubbed "The Female Ali" of the 1970s and 1980s, can be considered among the pioneers of female professional boxing. She was, after all, one of the three women who successfully filed suit against the New York State Athletic Commission to be issued a boxing license. Jackie further cemented her legendary status on June 8, 1975 when she became the first female boxer to fight in Madison Square Garden. Shockingly, her opponent at the Aaron Bank's Oriental World of Self-Defense was a male, kick-boxer Larry Rodania. Even more impressively, Tonawanda won the bout via a second-round knockout.


It’s either that, or competitive eating -


10 Memorable Times Women Beat Men in Sports

Jesus you are really clutching at straws now. If she was the female Ali why didn't they put her against Ali then? Or even any of the top 50 male boxers in her weight division. We all know what the outcome would be or maybe you are kidding yourself that she would have a chance.

I've no doubt she would kick my ass but that's not the point.

ThunbergsAreGo

nullzero wrote: »

Men versus women in Boxing or UFC would in your mind be the ultimate expression of equality then?

But that's not what will happen. It will be elite vs elite at the top and in sports like UFC, they will be male. An elite female UFC fighter would fair better then me, but neither will fight an elite male fighter

Could be weight classes etc.

Women compete vs men and win in many sports ex horse racing

And I disagree with it, but I also disagree with this nonsense

mohawk

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

This is 2021. Men and women are equal. They should be able to compete against each other surely?

I have to wonder if this post is serious. Did some people grow up in single sex environments with no opposite sex siblings, cousins, friends. Even before puberty the average boy is faster then the average girl. This gap is widened by puberty. Boys being stronger and faster then girls can be seen in the playground. I know a couple of girls my sons age who love sport they play have given up playing soccer in mixed teams because they struggled against boys, however they are really strong players when playing girls only sports. Again just to point out my son is in 5th class so you are talking 10/11 year olds not 15/16 year olds.

Read what Ross Tucker and Emma Hilton have to say on the differences between males and females and this is all based on the scientific evidence out there.

Sports should absolutely be separated by male and female unless it’s something like showjumping.

It’s 2021. Why should women give up the sports they fought so long and hard to participate in. First women’s boxing event in Olympics took place in 2012. Boxing has been in Olympics since 1904. Katie Taylor worked very hard to achieve what she has. As talented as she is no way would Katie Taylor have an Olympic gold if you did away with men and women events.

Tilden Katz

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Laurel Hubbard weighs 131Kg which puts her in the 87Kg and over class for women.

He would not be able to compete in the men's 96 kg or 109 kg.
And would have to compete in the 109 kg and over.

He would also not be able to compete in the IWF 89Kg or 96Kg or 102Khg or 109Kg classes either. Just the +109Kg one.

This shows how difficult it is to not misgender, as the second and third bolded words seem unintentional based on the first bolded word.

Tilden Katz

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

I think the idea of segregating sports into male and female is discriminatory and something we should have moved on from in 2021.

We should really be looking at men and women (and anyone else) competing against each other in the same competitions. It seems the only way to have true equality in sports.

In that case, let’s also do away with intrasex weight divisions.

newhouse87

https://twitter.com/Daddy_Nomso/status/1407262011562602497

One eyed Jack

BloodBath wrote: »

The usual drivel. The evidence is every measurable variable and world record that put's men ahead because of their physical advantages because of the power of testosterone.

There may be some less physically demanding sports where you could mix and we have had some females doing ok against men in some sports like a US nascar driver and a UK darts player, but for the majority men just have an unfair advantage which is why it's still segregated.

In fairness, you’re giving me a damn good run for my money :pac:

What you’re presenting is NOT the evidence I asked for to support your claim that permitting men to compete in women’s sports would kill off women’s sports. You can’t present any evidence whatsoever because it simply doesn’t exist. What you have is an unsupported claim based upon your own beliefs, but I’m not so up my own arse that I’m going to tell you that you shouldn’t have an opinion when you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Even if I were to accept that men are ahead in every record, so what? It still doesn’t prove that women can’t participate in sports with men. Based upon your logic, men’s sports would have been killed off long ago because it’s only a tiny minority of men athletes will ever be able to compete at elite level, and an even tinier minority again who will win competitions at elite level!

Sports are segregated purely because of how women and men were traditionally perceived in society, not because of technology which only became available in the late 20th century which only made clearly delineated lines based upon differences between the sexes based upon visual inspection more blurred by allowing for inspection at the microscopic level to determine sex, under the pretext of checking whether or not they were men trying to cheat.

Yes, because the lower pay and prize money and abuse of women in women’s sports and competitions by men involved in women’s sports, never mind the fact that they would be subject to ridicule and derision and derogatory insults and intimidation and harassment are all the reasons why men would want to compete in women’s sports.

You’re in no position to lecture anyone else on what they do or don’t know about sports, let alone telling anyone they shouldn’t have an opinion.

BloodBath

I'm sorry that common sense or critical analysis is an ability that you do not possess.

I never said they can't participate, I said they can't compete. Top females vs top males in almost every physically demanding sport the men are going to come out on top. There is mountains of evidence for this and it's a well established fact.

Not going to waste any more time with you. Back on the ignore list.

newhouse87

newhouse87 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Daddy_Nomso/status/1407262011562602497

But she came in fifth after that monster lead, not last. sO ObViOuSlY MaLeS HaVe nO PhYsIcAl aDvAnTaGe oVeR FeMaLeS.

Sue de Nimes

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

This is 2021. Men and women are equal. They should be able to compete against each other surely?

Hard to tell if joking.

That’s the way it’s going alright.

BloodBath

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm sorry that common sense or critical analysis is an ability that you do not possess.

I never said they can't participate, I said they can't compete. Top females vs top males in almost every physically demanding sport the men are going to come out on top. There is mountains of evidence for this and it's a well established fact.

Not going to waste any more time with you. Back on the ignore list.

Critical constructionists neither need nor want to make sense. The entire point is obfuscation and derailment.

One eyed Jack

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm sorry that common sense or critical analysis is an ability that you do not possess.

I never see they can't participate, I said they can't compete. Top females vs top males in almost every physically demanding sport the men are going to come out on top. There is mountains of evidence for this and it's a well established fact.

Not going to waste any more time with you. Back on the ignore list.

Again, that’s the same thing!

And who is suggesting anything about pitting people who are clearly unmatched against each other? Do different categories not exist?

Are the only options for Katie Taylor to be pitted against the equivalent of Mike Tyson or something? Although now I think about it Michael Carruth would hug her to death for the gold medal :pac:

Nope, nobody is arguing that anyone be unequally matched, and it’s disingenuous for you to try and frame anyone’s argument that way as though there aren’t already separate categories based upon all sorts of other characteristics and skill levels and abilities in sports that have fcukall to do with sex.

OMM 0000

nullzero wrote:

Men versus women in Boxing or UFC would in your mind be the ultimate expression of equality then?

It's been done.

An utterly dominant world champion female kickboxer fought an amateur male.

For the first round he didn't attack, just defended himself.

He noted her punches and kicks have no power.

In the second round he decided to attack, he hit her once and the fight was over.

It's on YouTube if you want to watch it.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Remember, half the population has a double digit IQ.

Some people are also incredibly dishonest.

Low intelligence + dishonesty = virtue signalling in the hope people will think you have value.

What these people don't realise is the only people on their side are the other dishonest, low intelligence virtue signallers. Everyone else just thinks they're painful morons.

Actually I think the people defending those tend to have high verbal intelligence but fairly low real intelligence.

Anyway parts of me wonders why we guys are defending women’s sports if most of them are not.

BloodBath

fvp4 wrote: »

Actually I think the people defending those tend to have high verbal intelligence but fairly low real intelligence.

Anyway parts of me wonders why we guys are defending women’s sports of most of them are not.

Because most women have no interest in sports and most don't even know about this.