First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

Larbre34

timeToLive wrote: »

when is this event - I will watch it with popcorn

Probably never. Either a boycott will take place, or the entrant at issue will withdraw or be withdrawn.

bfa1509

Not sure why they can't just have an asterisk in the rule book: *Birth gender only

Problem solved - No discrimination, no disappointment, no drama

Tilden Katz

Donald Trump wrote: »

I understand they are two different things. But the point was that they subjected her to a series of tests based on the possibility that she might have some advantages due to having suspected male characteristics in her genetic makeup. In the end up she was passed as allowed to compete as a fair competitor.



So do they have similar tests for the transgenders. Not the exact same tests I mean, but similar in principle.


I'm not commenting on rights or wrongs. I'm just asking whether they have criteria. If they do, and the weightlifter passed them, then people can't complain. Well if they do, the are really complaining about the tests.

Transgender athletes must have testosterone below a certain level in their blood. However, even the IOC now seems to regret the level they chose which is very high and also acknowledge that there are far more advantages that have nothing to do with hormone levels.

Tilden Katz

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, he was better.

No shame in that.

Technique-wise, he might not have been. Just being stronger and quicker would negate some of the Williams sisters’ technique.

Tilden Katz

Tilden Katz wrote: »

Technique-wise, he might not have been. Just being stronger and quicker would negate some of the Williams sisters’ technique.

So.... better.

If you can beat your opponent, you are better.

Tilden Katz

Deleted User wrote: »

So.... better.

If you can beat your opponent, you are better.

I don’t agree! There would not be different divisions if it was just about brute strength. The gold medallist in any women’s event could not celebrate her win if we acknowledged that many men would beat her.

Larbre34

Professor Ross Tucker, Sports Physiologist -

"Biological males have significant performance advantages over biological females through their exposure to testosterone and other hormones in their development.

Does lowering or suppressing testosterone for a period of 12 months, or longer, remove typically male advantages? The answer, from the outcome of over a dozen studies, is an emphatic no."

Shield

Larbre34 wrote: »

Does lowering or suppressing testosterone for a period of 12 months, or longer, remove typically male advantages? The answer, from the outcome of over a dozen studies, is an emphatic no."

This is why permitting her to compete gets a resounding no from me. It’s unfair to biological women who never had the advantage of going through male puberty.

Actually, it’s not just unfair, it’s egregiously unfair.

Tilden Katz

Tilden Katz wrote: »

I don’t agree! There would not be different divisions if it was just about brute strength. The gold medallist in any women’s event could not celebrate her win if we acknowledged that many men would beat her.

You don't have to agree. You are entitled to be wrong.

If two people compete in tennis, the person who consistently wins is better at it.

Vestiapx

Large number of misgendering posts on this thread.
Hi can I say it more clearly

IT IS THE OLYMPICS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED NOT THE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES.

so stop being horrible about the athlete.

Tilden Katz

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't have to agree. You are entitled to be wrong.

If two people compete in tennis, the person who consistently wins is better at it.

Well, isn’t that big of you?

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

Large number of misgendering posts on this thread.
Hi can I say it more clearly

IT IS THE OLYMPICS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED NOT THE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES.

so stop being horrible about the athlete.

I agree. The Olympics need to change to stop biological men from competing against women.

Glad we agree.

Tilden Katz

Tilden Katz wrote: »

Well, isn’t that big of you?

I'm genuinely sorry. That was unnecessarily snarky.

Tilden Katz

Vestiapx wrote: »

Large number of misgendering posts on this thread.
Hi can I say it more clearly

IT IS THE OLYMPICS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED NOT THE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES.

so stop being horrible about the athlete.

There are a number of posts that are misgendering Hubbard, true. However, I hope you are not including the ones that refer to Hubbard’s biological sex. Sex =/= gender. And biological sex kind of has come up in discussing this topic.

volchitsa

biko wrote: »

Maybe they should just let everyone compete in one big inclusive group? Do away with gender and weight classes.

As far as women’s weight categories go they pretty much have done, with Laurel Hubbard:

She’s 130 kg so wouldn’t be allowed to compete against men in two categories below that (96-109kg) because that would be unfair.

But because the maximum women’s category is >87kg, she’s up against women of 88 or 90 kg and that’s stunning and brave of her.

https://twitter.com/dora_callisto/status/1407098553227485185?s=21

Cookie_Monster

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I feel very sorry for the woman who missed out on a place at the Olympics because of this.

Who has probably trained for years and will now miss out. Seems very unfair to me.

That woman had to drop down 18kg and a weight division to compete at the last commonwealth games. not in contention for Olympics but has been very vocal about the whole issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Lambrechs

DeadHand

Vestiapx wrote: »

Large number of misgendering posts on this thread.
Hi can I say it more clearly

IT IS THE OLYMPICS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED NOT THE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES.

so stop being horrible about the athlete.

Personal responsibility still exists.

The person involved should have had more integrity than to engage in this grim joke. Either they are wilfully cheating or breathtakingly self centred. Or both.

They simply cannot be unaware of the mammoth physical advantages being a biological man gives them over women.

Ficheall

DeadHand wrote: »

Personal responsibility still exists.

I fear you may have missed several memos.

ceadaoin.

I'll never forget this picture. It really does speak 1000 words. Feel very bad for those women, they look dejected. Soon to be coming to the world stage, and I don't think her opponents will get away with expressing their displeasure these days.

VinLieger

I've been saying this since the pistorius years but it's long past time to just make a second Olympics where drugs, body modifications and all other kinds of fvckery are acceptable that would hopefully stop things like this.

SouthWesterly

Will this result in the female competitors boycotting the event. I sure hope so.

Wanderer78

SouthWesterly wrote:

Will this result in the female competitors boycotting the event. I sure hope so.

Yea it's deeply unfair on them, I've no issue with people changing sex, buts there's clearly different physicality

Mike Murdock

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Will this result in the female competitors boycotting the event. I sure hope so.

They do that and their careers are over. They'll be labelled transphobes and almost certainly lose sponsorships because of it. The mob on Social Media will make sure of it.

silverharp

Weight is only part of it, a man and a woman who weighted the same would still have different potentials like for like, men have a different skeletal structure, centre of gravity, different ratios of upper body strength , larger lung capacity and many more, you couldnt come up with a way to nerf a dude so they could compete fairly with a woman.
At least it will make the Olympics interesting allbeit in the sht show sense

WrenBoy

If this does go ahead I can see there being very little noise being made about it, the cameras will all be busy at another event taking place at the same time or the scheduling will be such that the women's weightlifting will be on the same time as more popular televised events during the games.

Spudman_20000

Can't wait to see what happens when this starts happening for sports people actually care about e.g. women's tennis, golf etc. 300 yard drives, 165 mph serves etc.

cj maxx

Its a f@cking joke that a man can undergo some , basically superficial sex changes , and compete as a woman. The Olympic Council, for allowing this have , imo , destroyed any ethos of equality and sports on an equal footing. Next thing will be dialing a premium rate phone number to decide medals in gymnastics, diving etc. With Simon Cowell pulling faces in the voting booth.

pjohnson

cj maxx wrote: »

Its a f@cking joke that a man can undergo some , basically superficial sex changes , and compete as a women. The Olympic Council, for allowing this have , imo , destroyed any ethos of equality and sports on an equal footing. Next thing will be dialing a premium rate phone number to decide medals in gymnastics, diving etc. With Simon Cowell pulling faces in the voting booth.

Votes would make things a bit equal. The women would have some chance of winning.

whippet

as far as i am aware she has to take drugs to reduce her testosterone level to be able to compete ... in my opinion this is just the same as taking PEDs to make a weight category or increase strength / endurance.

If she needs drugs to qualify she shouldn't be allowed compete against other 'clean' athletes.

Richard Hillman

Re: Any potential boycott

Going from the last Olympic event. Hubbard will be competing against women from the likes of

China
North Korea
Egypt
Nigeria
Ukraine
Venezuela
Tunisia
Georgia
Algeria

Other countries that are strong in weightlifting: Iran, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Romania, Armenia, Belarus.

You think they'll be chuffed at how "Progressive" it is? :pac:

They won't even share a locker room with Hubbard.