House Re-Wire - New stuff I should consider

lobbylad

Hi,

We're getting a c. 50 yr old house re-wired, mostly the upstairs as downstairs was done about 16 yrs ago following an extension/re-works.

We're also getting solar panels on the roof (have a plug in hybrid car).

Is there anything that I should consider, job is nearly all about some extra sockets and re-doing lights etc.

I will get cat-6 run back to a central spot (probably in the attic) and will maybe get USB charger faceplates.

Any recommendations?

Terry..

lobbylad wrote: »

Hi,

We're getting a c. 50 yr old house re-wired, mostly the upstairs as downstairs was done about 16 yrs ago following an extension/re-works.

We're also getting solar panels on the roof (have a plug in hybrid car).

Is there anything that I should consider, job is nearly all about some extra sockets and re-doing lights etc.

I will get cat-6 run back to a central spot (probably in the attic) and will maybe get USB charger faceplates.

Any recommendations?

There's a lot of changes in-built into the new rules so there's that

I wouldn't be a fan of in-built usb chargers, the technology moves on and you're left with a semi obsolete faceplate

Beta Ray Bill

I'm just finished doing up my house

My house was already re-wired so there wasn't a whole lot to do.

I did however run cat 6 to every room in the house
8 cables to living room and dining room (4 in each corner)
It's a good idea to make sure that at least 1 set of four comes out where the UPC box is.
When bringing all the cables back to a central location, use a patch panel and case. DO NOT waste your time trying to stick RJ45 connectors on the end of each cable

4 cables to each bedroom (This will negate the need for little 4 port switches)

If you're going to have a wall mounted TV, now is the time to bury the following items in the wall with one end coming out where the TV will be and the other close to ground level:
4 hmdi cables (in case one breaks)
RF cable in case you decide to use an old console
Optical Sound cables
Network cable

Additionally, you should wire up a double socket behind where the TV will be.
This will mean you have no wires around the TV

Finally, and most importantly of all!
RUN A NEUTRAL TO THE LIGHT SWITCHES!!!!!
You cannot have smart switches without a neutral going to the switch.
I made this mistake and I am REALLY regretting it.

Terry..

TV I suppose is an obvious one

There'd be a bit of work and planning if u want a fancy setup

Not sure if the relevance of having a PHEV to Solar PV unless you also add in a battery, because you're most likely going to be charging it at night when there's no sun.

lobbylad

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm just finished doing up my house

My house was already re-wired so there wasn't a whole lot to do.

I did however run cat 6 to every room in the house
8 cables to living room and dining room (4 in each corner)
It's a good idea to make sure that at least 1 set of four comes out where the UPC box is.
When bringing all the cables back to a central location, use a patch panel and case. DO NOT waste your time trying to stick RJ45 connectors on the end of each cable

4 cables to each bedroom (This will negate the need for little 4 port switches)

If you're going to have a wall mounted TV, now is the time to bury the following items in the wall with one end coming out where the TV will be and the other close to ground level:
4 hmdi cables (in case one breaks)
RF cable in case you decide to use an old console
Optical Sound cables
Network cable

Additionally, you should wire up a double socket behind where the TV will be.
This will mean you have no wires around the TV

Finally, and most importantly of all!
RUN A NEUTRAL TO THE LIGHT SWITCHES!!!!!
You cannot have smart switches without a neutral going to the switch.
I made this mistake and I am REALLY regretting it.

Thanks, will be using a patch panel for the ethernet, agreed, fitting RF-45s is messy.
Wasn't aware of the neutral for smart switches, no plan on getting any yet, but that might change as the years go by!

lobbylad

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

Not sure if the relevance of having a PHEV to Solar PV unless you also add in a battery, because you're most likely going to be charging it at night when there's no sun.

Good point, though I do WFH a lot, it's probably a good idea to check the prices for a battery setup.

Beta Ray Bill

lobbylad wrote: »

Thanks, will be using a patch panel for the ethernet, agreed, fitting RF-45s is messy.
Wasn't aware of the neutral for smart switches, no plan on getting any yet, but that might change as the years go by!

Also get a POE switch in case you want to power something off the Ethernet cables. (Cameras are a good example)

Someone told me that keeping an old-style analogue ESB meter is better than going for one of their new meters, because if any electrical short happened with the analogue meter in place, the ESB are liable for damages. I'm not sure how true this is, but the ESB might ask you to update your meter system if you're overhauling the electrics in the house.

Terry..

TimberTones wrote: »

Someone told me that keeping an old-style analogue ESB meter is better than going for one of their new meters, because if any electrical short happened with the analogue meter in place, the ESB are liable for damages. I'm not sure how true this is, but the ESB might ask you to update your meter system if you're overhauling the electrics in the house.

Don't think so tbh

alan4cult

TimberTones wrote: »

Someone told me that keeping an old-style analogue ESB meter is better than going for one of their new meters, because if any electrical short happened with the analogue meter in place, the ESB are liable for damages. I'm not sure how true this is, but the ESB might ask you to update your meter system if you're overhauling the electrics in the house.

Don't think that's true.

10-10-20

lobbylad wrote: »

Thanks, will be using a patch panel for the ethernet, agreed, fitting RF-45s is messy.
Wasn't aware of the neutral for smart switches, no plan on getting any yet, but that might change as the years go by!

Use deep back-boxes, well inseted into the walls, so that you can fit dimmers/smart-switches in to the box.
Properly size the feed to the electrical car charger so that you're not going to limit it by the cable/breaker size in the future (ie, 7kw/32A if possible).
Run CAT6 cables into locations where you might install WiFi mesh-AP's, such as hidden in the ceiling or on top of high counters, etc.

2011

Personally I prefer to use a Philips Hue type solution rather than smart switches to control lights. This means that regardless of the wiring lamps can be controlled individually in terms of how much they are dimmed as well as collie even when sharing the same switch wire. This offers far more flexibility, scenes can be set and wireless motion detectors can also be used. Also neutrals are not required at light switches.
Other features:
- Wireless light switches
- Google Home / Alex integration
- Geo fencing
- Additional swicthes can be added withiout any rewiring
- Sun set / sun rise switching
- Can be programmed via smart phone app

Also, IKEA offer a low cost smart lamp that integrates fully with the Philips Hue system. I have around a dozen of these and so far my experience has been very positive.

Having said that I use plenty of Sonoff smart switches for other functions in my home.

On another note surge protection is something that should also be considered when rewiring.

Terry..

2011 wrote: »

Personally I prefer to use a Philips Hue type solution rather than smart switches to control lights. This means that regardless of the wiring lamps can be controlled individually in terms of how much they are dimmed as well as collie even when sharing the same switch wire. This offers far more flexibility, scenes can be set and wireless motion detectors can also be used. Also neutrals are not required at light switches.
Other features:
- Wireless light switches
- Google Home / Alex integration
- Geo fencing
- Additional swicthes can be added withiout any rewiring
- Sun set / sun rise switching
- Can be programmed via smart phone app

Also, IKEA offer a low cost smart lamp that integrates fully with the Philips Hue system. I have around a dozen of these and so far my experience has been very positive.

Having said that I use plenty of Sonoff smart switches for other functions in my home.

On another note surge protection is something that should also be considered when rewiring.

Is the SPD a requirement for the main board on this upgrade ?

Would the main board even needed to be brought up to IS0101
There's a lot of changes on the main boards

Cerco

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm just finished doing up my house

Finally, and most importantly of all!
RUN A NEUTRAL TO THE LIGHT SWITCHES!!!!!
You cannot have smart switches without a neutral going to the switch.
I made this mistake and I am REALLY regretting it.

Well you can get smart switches from Amazon which do not need a neutral. They use a capacitor to simulate the neutral.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=smart+switch+no+neutral+required&ref=nb_sb_noss

Terry..

Every domestic installation I seen was being done with t+e drops to the switch going back 15yrs ago

Have a lot gone back to singles or what

I'm sure 3 plate is completely gone , a terrible system except for convenience on bungalows

The t+e switch drops wasn't being done for smart switches that time ,it was purely for simplicity and convenience of connecting the light fittings and spots, much easier to troubleshoot issues as well

The convenience of having the neutral at the switch came much later

punisher5112

Rcbos instead of mcbs .....

Terry..

punisher5112 wrote: »

Rcbos instead of mcbs .....

Does the main board need to be brought up to IS10101 on this job theres a lot of changes there including the rcbos

One of the domestic guys would know the answer

Terry..

The t+e switch drop is the only sytem of the 3 that effectively isolates the fitting when you switch off

It's a important consideration as this is the general trend in domestic work

To make everything idiot proof

ArrBee

Put some proper consideration into where all the cat 6 will feed back to.
I wouldn't put it in my attic as its to hot and dusty.

punisher5112

ArrBee wrote: »

Put some proper consideration into where all the cat 6 will feed back to.
I wouldn't put it in my attic as its to hot and dusty.

Utility room or under the stairs would be my way.

jester77

punisher5112 wrote: »

Utility room or under the stairs would be my way.

This is important, attic will be way too warm, especially in Summer. Any hardware you would have running there will be in danger of overheating. Somewhere cool and dry, I have mine in the basement.

Also consider running cat to ceiling locations for APs, security cameras, etc and you can then power these over POE.

KCross

lobbylad wrote: »

We're getting a c. 50 yr old house re-wired, mostly the upstairs as downstairs was done about 16 yrs ago following an extension/re-works.

We're also getting solar panels on the roof (have a plug in hybrid car).

Since you already have a PHEV I presume you have thought about an external charge point?

Maybe stating what you already know but you should have a dedicated circuit from an external charging location back to the consumer unit. Possibly even run two cables now to allow a second charge point be added in future as the cable run is the hard bit. Use 10mm² cable. 6mm² will likely do, but go with 10mm².

Also run cat6 cable from your meter box to this location so that you can put in a CT clamp which will allow the charge point to sense the whole house load. Very important for future proofing if/when you decide to go full BEV or even have two EV's.

You may also need a CT clamp from the location where you will put your Solar PV inverter back to the charge point location so another Cat6 there.

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

Not sure if the relevance of having a PHEV to Solar PV unless you also add in a battery, because you're most likely going to be charging it at night when there's no sun.

Modern charge points will feed excess Solar PV electricity to an EV if its at home by day.

ArrBee wrote: »

Put some proper consideration into where all the cat 6 will feed back to.
I wouldn't put it in my attic as its to hot and dusty.

Good shout on that.

In addition, put in ducting to that location to allow additional cables to be easily run to it from outside.... in particular the likes of Fibre-to-the-home cable or any gate automation or the like.

Terry..

KCross wrote: »

Since you already have a PHEV I presume you have thought about an external charge point?

Maybe stating what you already know but you should have a dedicated circuit from an external charging location back to the consumer unit. Possibly even run two cables now to allow a second charge point be added in future as the cable run is the hard bit. Use 10mm² cable. 6mm² will likely do, but go with 10mm².

Also run cat6 cable from your meter box to this location so that you can put in a CT clamp which will allow the charge point to sense the whole house load. Very important for future proofing if/when you decide to go full BEV or even have two EV's.





Modern charge points will feed excess Solar PV electricity to an EV if its at home by day.




Good shout on that.

In addition, put in ducting to that location to allow additional cables to be easily run to it from outside.... in particular the likes of Fibre-to-the-home cable or any gate automation or the like.

That has to be the best system the 6/10 and cat 5 from the main board for each charger

Not a fan of this idea of adding even more stuff to the meter cabinet, it's already not fit for purpose

There's a combined network and power cable over on another thread

Not sure if they do a 10 and a network cable


https://www.expertelectrical.co.uk/doncaster-cables-ev-ultra-cable
Only a 6 and the pair , still nice cable

jumbone

Lots of mentions of CAT6 and a few people mentioned high up sockets for TVs, HDMI cables in walls etc

What about surround sound cabling? Is that back to being niche/enthusiast as most consumer gear now bluetooth?

2011

Terry.. wrote: »

Is the SPD a requirement for the main board on this upgrade ?

Technically no, but in reality yes. The REC has a choice, either produce a risk assessment stating that surge protection is not required on install surge protection. As it is not very expensive I think that installing it is a no brainer.

KCross

Terry.. wrote: »

Not a fan of this idea of adding even more stuff to the meter cabinet, it's already not fit for purpose

Not sure what the issue would be, it’s just a small CT clamp.

If it is an issue you can alternatively run the clamp back to the consumer unit instead as long as it’s clamped to the incoming tails and sensing the whole house load.

jester77

jumbone wrote: »

Lots of mentions of CAT6 and a few people mentioned high up sockets for TVs, HDMI cables in walls etc

What about surround sound cabling? Is that back to being niche/enthusiast as most consumer gear now bluetooth?

Always go cable Plus cable in the ceiling for Atmos. Most decent receivers support it.

Terry..

KCross wrote: »

Not sure what the issue would be, it’s just a small CT clamp.

If it is an issue you can alternatively run the clamp back to the consumer unit instead as long as it’s clamped to the incoming tails and sensing the whole house load.

I'm talking about converting the MOPD to the MDB by distributing ev power and monitoring from the cabinet location


The preferred option should be as u said to wire the chargers from the existing MDB which up to now is located indoors

Imo

The spanner in the works to my idea could be the location of emergency switching

Maybe it will all have to originate at the cabinet

Emergency switching though is not that difficult to wire from indoors either , just a pair to the location of the push

Switching for the main light either side of the beds.
Lamp switch & reading lights at each side of the bed.
Wired fire alarm with controller, wired alarm.
As said above deep back boxes !

ArrBee

punisher5112 wrote: »

Utility room or under the stairs would be my way.

Sure.
under stairs can be hard to retro fit I guess?

For me all the cabling is through the attic with multiple scrap pipping through the wool insulation as ducting, then coming back in to a walk in wardrobe where one set of shelves have everything.

I do have a small 9u(ish) rack that I was going to use in the attic until I measured the temp up there.
At that time dust was less of a concern as I just had a patch panel and fanless switch to house. but since then it has grown and now I wouldn't use the attic for dust reasons as much as heat reasons.

Thats another point OP.
Make sure your termination point for networking has space to grow.
You might not plan to now, but you will over the next 10-20 yrs. (or less)