UEFA refuse to sanction illuminating Munich Stadium in rainbow colours

Heraclius

Strumms wrote: »

There was a time once where you’d go to X sports events, the only flags were for the teams / nations... the only thing taken before kick off was a practice shot or twenty.....

Now multiple flags (non football), gestures, announcements, silences, presentations, none of which are jack to do with football....not brought in the main by fans, but by the organizers and supporters of these causes.

In fairness I think Cork were flying the Japanese Imperial Navy flag for years or decades. And the less said about the Confederate battle flag the better.

VinLieger

jakiah wrote: »

Its absurd to say pushing this rights issue universally across the 55 members would be non-political.

And its equally as absurd to say that UEFA is taking a non political stance. This is a binary issue you are either homophobic or you aren't.

UEFA are sitting on the fence trying to be all things to everyone and they are failing massively as all they are doing right now is effectively saying they are okay with Homophobia.

Boulevardier

I protested at the Springboks' tour of Ireland many years ago, so I accept that political statements in sport sometimes should be made.

However, I think the Munich case is a reflection of (1) The enormous power of the pink pound/dollar/euro, making for a kind of corporate virtue-signalling which many LGB activists have already said they are tired of, and (2) An EU animus against Orban, which dates from before Hungary's new anti "gay promotion" laws were produced.

I do not like the idea of Europe becoming bitterly divided into 2 culture-war camps.

Boulevardier

Boulevardier wrote: »

I protested at the Springboks' tour of Ireland many years ago, so I accept that political statements in sport sometimes should be made.

However, I think the Munich case is a reflection of (1) The enormous power of the pink pound/dollar/euro, making for a kind of corporate virtue-signalling which many LGB activists have already said they are tired of, and (2) An EU animus against Orban, which dates from before Hungary's new anti "gay promotion" laws were produced.

I do not like the idea of Europe becoming bitterly divided into 2 culture-war camps.

The reality is Hungary is actively violating both EU law and charter of human rights. In this case, it's at a pretty grassroots level the opposition to Hungary's human rights policies. Local government, local football teams and plenty of the public. Then numerous human rights organizations etc.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

And its equally as absurd to say that UEFA is taking a non political stance. This is a binary issue you are either homophobic or you aren't.

UEFA are sitting on the fence trying to be all things to everyone and they are failing massively as all they are doing right now is effectively saying they are okay with Homophobia.

The hysteria about the homophobia of Hungary - something about a children’s book or some such - seems way out of proportion given that a good proportion of the world actually bans homosexual acts and some countries have the death penalty on the books for those acts.

Including Qatar. So what do do there? Well if you are demanding a rainbow flag be flown or stadium lights are lit up for a country where homosexuality and civil partnership is legal, what then with a world cup held in a country with the death penalty?

A boycott for sure.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reality is Hungary is actively violating both EU law and charter of human rights. In this case, it's at a pretty grassroots level the opposition to Hungary's human rights policies. Local government, local football teams and plenty of the public. Then numerous human rights organizations etc.

Did we violate those rights prior to 1993? What about the abortion laws pre 2008? What about divorce, for chrissakes, centuries late on that one.

I don’t remember much rainbows lighting up at matches when we were the reactionary kids in the block.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

And its equally as absurd to say that UEFA is taking a non political stance. This is a binary issue you are either homophobic or you aren't.

Now *that* is a political stance, but "you are with us or against us" is something that makes most reasonable people want to exit any discussion regardless of their feelings on the issue at hand, in my experience

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The hysteria about the homophobia of Hungary - something about a children’s book or some such - seems way out of proportion given that a good proportion of the world actually bans homosexual acts and some countries have the death penalty on the books for those acts.

Including Qatar. So what do do there? Well if you are demanding a rainbow flag be flown or stadium lights are lit up for a country where homosexuality and civil partnership is legal, what then with a world cup held in a country with the death penalty?

A boycott for sure.

Yep.

For a million reasons, the qatari world cup is a moral abomination.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep.

For a million reasons, the qatari world cup is a moral abomination.

The Germans will have to boycott now for sure.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did we violate those rights prior to 1993? What about the abortion laws pre 2008? What about divorce, for chrissakes, centuries late on that one.

I don’t remember much rainbows lighting up at matches when we were the reactionary kids in the block.

We did violate them, that's what David Norris went to the ECHR over and he won. By the logic of many posters in this very thread, their ruling was interfering. EU member states are violating both EU law and human rights treaties. You seem to be annoyed that these issues are being raised? Cause guess what, we have been called out by human rights organisations and various different bodies when we were failing. On top of that, activists called us out. They'd be viewed as SJWs now.

And I do find it particularly worrying when states actively regress their laws and move towards becoming an authoritarian state.

Strumms

VinLieger wrote: »

And its equally as absurd to say that UEFA is taking a non political stance. This is a binary issue you are either homophobic or you aren't.

UEFA are sitting on the fence trying to be all things to everyone and they are failing massively as all they are doing right now is effectively saying they are okay with Homophobia.

They are not, I’m not ok with homophobia but I don’t have this flag hanging in my house, porch, car etc.

I don’t own a BLM T-shirt, flag, poster, I don’t follow or like them on social media... am i a racist ?

I never buy into this.. “ you either support us or you are against us “ bullshît either... that’s just pure disingenuous garbage.....desperate measures to make people afraid of critical appraisals of you. Pretty low.

OMM 0000

I wish all this rainbow colour stuff would stop.

Your sexuality means nothing.

It's not interesting.

You're not special because you're gay.

Please stop making your sexuality such a huge part of your identity.

Please start being normal and just get on with your life.

It would be utterly boring and absurd if I made being heterosexual a defining part of my character, wanted to have parades about it, wanted to have a day dedicated to my sexuality, wanted to hang a flag out my window in dedication of my sexuality.

When is society going to grow up and stop with all this pandering to attention seekers?

Smee_Again

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I wish all this rainbow colour stuff would stop.

Your sexuality means nothing.

It's not interesting.

You're not special because you're gay.

Please stop making your sexuality such a huge part of your identity.

Please start being normal and just get on with your life.

It would be utterly boring and absurd if I made being heterosexual a defining part of my character, wanted to have parades about it, wanted to have a day dedicated to my sexuality, wanted to hang a flag out my window in dedication of my sexuality.

When is society going to grow up and stop with all this pandering to attention seekers?

When people like you stop telling others to be normal.

Faugheen

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It would be utterly boring and absurd if I made being heterosexual a defining part of my character, wanted to have parades about it, wanted to have a day dedicated to my sexuality, wanted to hang a flag out my window in dedication of my sexuality.

When is society going to grow up and stop with all this pandering to attention seekers?

The fact you ask this question after making the statement above shows you clearly don't get it.

VinLieger

fvp4 wrote: »

The hysteria about the homophobia of Hungary - something about a children’s book or some such - seems way out of proportion given that a good proportion of the world actually bans homosexual acts and some countries have the death penalty on the books for those acts.

Including Qatar. So what do do there? Well if you are demanding a rainbow flag be flown or stadium lights are lit up for a country where homosexuality and civil partnership is legal, what then with a world cup held in a country with the death penalty?

A boycott for sure.

Its from the same exact playbook Poland and Russia have used to push their sever homophobic national agendas.

Im going to ignore the rest of your whataboutery cus its infantile.

Deleted User wrote: »

Now *that* is a political stance, but "you are with us or against us" is something that makes most reasonable people want to exit any discussion regardless of their feelings on the issue at hand, in my experience

Its not about with us or against us, its if you actively stand in the way of people making a statement about wrongs being committed then you are against those people.

Strumms wrote: »

They are not, I’m not ok with homophobia but I don’t have this flag hanging in my house, porch, car etc.

I don’t own a BLM T-shirt, flag, poster, I don’t follow or like them on social media... am i a racist ?

I never buy into this.. “ you either support us or you are against us “ bullshît either... that’s just pure disingenuous garbage.....desperate measures to make people afraid of critical appraisals of you. Pretty low.

I agree and am exactly the same but unfortunately you argument is a complete false equivalence. If your child or spouse, roommate whatever asked to hang a rainbow flag from their window and you said no then that would be a similar situation.



UEFA taking the stand that nobody can make a statement about the wrongs being committed in Hungary is them saying they are okay with what is happening in Hungary. Nobody is asking them to take direct action but in this specific them stopping others from taking action is the problem.

OMM 0000

Smee_Again wrote: »

When people like you stop telling others to be normal.

I knew there would be someone like you excited to jump on the fact I used the "normal" word.

We all know what you're doing here, trying to pretend I think gays are "abnormal" or defective and that there's probably something wrong with them.

Of course, you know damn well I meant normal to mean not making everything about your sexuality. It's not healthy and it's extraordinarily boring.

Beechwoodspark

Good decision by uefa

Keep politics out of football

VinLieger

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Good decision by uefa

Keep politics out of football

What an hilariously naive statement, politics and sports mix all the time get over it.

Beechwoodspark

I just don’t want football tarnished with tittle tattle politics about orban or whatever

Just play football lads. Leave the politics to the politicians.

sprucemoose

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I wish all this rainbow colour stuff would stop.

Your sexuality means nothing.

It's not interesting.

You're not special because you're gay.

Please stop making your sexuality such a huge part of your identity.

Please start being normal and just get on with your life.

It would be utterly boring and absurd if I made being heterosexual a defining part of my character, wanted to have parades about it, wanted to have a day dedicated to my sexuality, wanted to hang a flag out my window in dedication of my sexuality.

When is society going to grow up and stop with all this pandering to attention seekers?

.....you really don't get it do you bud?

archfi

UEFA were correct in this instance.
Keep politics out of football/sport.
This was blatantly political.
Football/sports fans - enjoy the game tonight.

Smee_Again

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I knew there would be someone like you excited to jump on the fact I used the "normal" word.

We all know what you're doing here, trying to pretend I think gays are "abnormal" or defective and that there's probably something wrong with them.

Of course, you know damn well I meant normal to mean not making everything about your sexuality. It's not healthy and it's extraordinarily boring.

You used the word normal, if you don’t want to be misconstrued you should explain yourself better.

However you meant the word my point stands. As long as people like you think there’s a way to be normal then it’s needed.

Faugheen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Good decision by uefa

Keep politics out of football

UEFA released a statement with the rainbow colours acting as background to its emblem.

Politics and football mix all the time. It's just picked and chosen which 'politics' to clamp down on.

If I were the Mayor of Munich I'd have the ground lit up anyway. What are UEFA going to do?

VinLieger

Jesus I just saw they released a statement saying that their rainbow icon on Twitter isn't political, their cognitive dissonance is trumpian

OMM 0000

Smee_Again wrote: »

You used the word normal, if you don’t want to be misconstrued you should explain yourself better.

However you meant the word my point stands. As long as people like you think there’s a way to be normal then it’s needed.

No, you're just doubling down.

You're trying to pretend I think gays are "abnormal".

You know exactly what my true meaning is, yet here you are, trying to cause trouble.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

JustAThought

Stadiums don’t get lit up for free. The planners, logistics, scaffolding, lighting hire,lighting design, riggers etc all have to be paid. I guess they might be foreseeing a massive ongoing furrore and endless monthly expenses to pander to each and every cause.

Like the charity chuggers who get aggressive when you say NO to give their on-the-spot fundraising no matter what or whom you support.

+1 for supporting Quatar being an absolute disaster. Like the Olympics in China. How can this have been allowed to happen.

Mullaghteelin

Boulevardier wrote: »

I protested at the Springboks' tour of Ireland many years ago, so I accept that political statements in sport sometimes should be made.

However, I think the Munich case is a reflection of (1) The enormous power of the pink pound/dollar/euro, making for a kind of corporate virtue-signalling which many LGB activists have already said they are tired of, and (2) An EU animus against Orban, which dates from before Hungary's new anti "gay promotion" laws were produced.

I do not like the idea of Europe becoming bitterly divided into 2 culture-war camps.

As a gay man I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Beechwoodspark

archfi wrote: »

UEFA were correct in this instance.
Keep politics out of football/sport.
This was blatantly political.
Football/sports fans - enjoy the game tonight.

Hear hear

Heraclius

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

As a gay man I wholeheartedly agree with this.

As a gay man I somewhat disagree!

I agree that pride has become a corporate event to a significant degree.

I think the citizens of the EU are entitled to hold the government of Hungary to account for backsliding on democratic rights and for introducing discriminatory laws though.

I also think that it is impossible to separate politics from international soccer because it is a competition between teams representing states (another poster mentioned this earlier so sorry for stating it again).

It is very hard to know how to draw a line though.

Strumms

VinLieger wrote: »

Its from the same exact playbook Poland and Russia have used to push their sever homophobic national agendas.

Im going to ignore the rest of your whataboutery cus its infantile.





Its not about with us or against us, its if you actively stand in the way of people making a statement about wrongs being committed then you are against those people.





I agree and am exactly the same but unfortunately you argument is a complete false equivalence. If your child or spouse, roommate whatever asked to hang a rainbow flag from their window and you said no then that would be a similar situation.



UEFA taking the stand that nobody can make a statement about the wrongs being committed in Hungary is them saying they are okay with what is happening in Hungary. Nobody is asking them to take direct action but in this specific them stopping others from taking action is the problem.

It’s no false equivalence.

I don’t control what anybody else has hanging from their windows... but I’ll reserve the right to have a view on it if I wish, to comment or discuss it... such are the perks of a democracy.

I’m not standing in the way of anybody making a statement... people who feel passionately about this cause are not being prevented from doing so...

If the same people asked the IRFU to paint the goalposts in rainbow colors in support of their cause, but were refused over concerns of the posts not being visible enough in front of a multitude of colors in the background, the IRFU or whoever are apparently.....

‘Actively standing in the way of people making a statement? ‘

Sport has no obligation to facilitate people or groups making statements...