Russia fire warning shots at British Navy

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

Kal 007 and at 6 others outside of MH17...

Your wasting your time

A million dead in Iraq would disagree and other places were the US brought its version of democracy....

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

A million dead in Iraq would disagree and other places were the US brought its version of democracy....

11 million + russians and eastern Europeans dead /disappeared under various purges and crackdowns post ww2,
Russia encourage and supported and took part in the invasion of South Korea which started the Korean war

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

11 million + russians and eastern Europeans dead /disappeared under various purges and crackdowns post ww2,
Russia encourage and supported and took part in the invasion of South Korea which started the Korean war

Since you want a pissing contest....for your perusal...its quite a list

Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *

cnocbui

Freight bandit wrote: »

Considering the misery the UK has caused in the world I doubt it...if the Russians had sent the defender to the sea floor they would have been calling for emergency UN meetings,the BBC and British tabloids would have filled our screens with pictures of the deceased and their children.

"Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov derided the British denials that the Russian military fired warning shots at HMS Defender and urged Britain and its allies not to “tempt fate”.

He added that the ship is “just a juicy target for the Black Sea Fleet’s missile systems”

The pinacle of Russian stealth technology, the Admiral Coughlotz, attempting to sneak past the noses of the provacative British through the English Channel:




Aparantly a British vessel from health and safety pulled up along side and tried to offer several cartons of face masks, but were rudly told to do something physically impossible with them.

While we know Russian missiles are good at classifying civillian planes full of Dutch and Australian tourists and shooting them down, I'm not sure we have the data on how well they do in the sort of ECM envirnment Defender can put up.

No wonder planes keep crashing attempting to take off from the Coughaloz, what with a light breeze being faster than the ship and the high chance of a tail wind instead of a head wind.

You do know that the Admiral Coughalotz was likely closser to the Uk, than Defender got to Crimea? Did the world think that provocative? Did the UK feel so frightened they fired shots at themselves and put up 20 aircraft?

Freight bandit

cnocbui wrote: »

The pinacle of Russian stealth technology, the Admiral Coughlotz, attempting to sneak past the noses of the provacative British through the English Channel:




Aparantly a British vessel from health and safety pulled up along side and tried to offer several cartons of face masks, but were rudly told to do something physically impossible with them.

While we know Russian missiles are good at classifying civillian planes full of Dutch and Australian tourists and shooting them down, I'm not sure we have the data on how well they do in the sort of ECM envirnment Defender can put up.

No wonder planes keep crashing attempting to take off from the Coughaloz, what with a light breeze being faster than the ship and the high chance of a tail wind instead of a head wind.

You do know that the Admiral Coughalotz was likely closser to the Uk, than Defender got to Crimea?

Maybe the UK could invest in life jackets or rubber dinghies....they'd save a fortune..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/royal-navy-spent-ps39m-fixing-and-maintaining-leaky-aircraft-carriers-hms-queen-elizabeth-and-hms-prince-wales-3102260%3famp

Or they could develop hypersonic missiles like the Russians which renders aircraft carriers obsolete...

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

Since you want a pissing contest....for your perusal...its quite a list

Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

They over threw the Ukrainian government and Afghan government (Afghanistan hadn't had a government since the Russians invaded in 1979 ,and didn't have election's until the 2000's )
The Americans didn't over throw the Ukrainian government ............
........
.....
...
..
.

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

The pinacle of Russian stealth technology, the Admiral Coughlotz, attempting to sneak past the noses of the provacative British through the English Channel:




Aparantly a British vessel from health and safety pulled up along side and tried to offer several cartons of face masks, but were rudly told to do something physically impossible with them.

While we know Russian missiles are good at classifying civillian planes full of Dutch and Australian tourists and shooting them down, I'm not sure we have the data on how well they do in the sort of ECM envirnment Defender can put up.

Lol

Bass Reeves

Gatling wrote: »

Lol

What I think is hilarious is lads thinking this is a British solo run. That Boris went to the G7 and the NATO meeting and did not as much as say
'''by the may lads and lassies I going to tumb my noses at the Russians next week and do a cruise past Crimea''

Gatling

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What O think is hilarious is lads thinking this is a British solo run.

It wasn't a solo run by any stretch of the imagination ,UK and other NATO vessels have regularly travel to and through the black sea ,do you honestly think a British ship could randomly sail through multiple countries and NATO Allies territorial waters unannounced ,
And too add its not just the HMS Defender sailing on her own She's accompanied by several other NATO vessels
HMS Defender, USS Laboon and Dutch frigate HMNLS Evertsen all docked in Odessa Ukraine recently in the blacksea ,
And at the same time russian forces detected the three ships off the coast of crimea despite being moored in Odessa at the time ,

Muahahaha

Gatling wrote: »

Would you consider that an actual warning shot ,the traditional naval warning is a shot across the bow ,
Not firing a ciws after the ship is out of sight , still no evidence of aircraft dropping bombs in the ships path ???

I think at this stage both sides have been lying, the MOD lied about warning shots not being fired when two journalists and the ships commander said otherwise and the Russians are lying about these four warning bombs supposedly dropped in the Defenders path. If the Russians dropped bombs Im sure they would be gleefully showing it to their domestic audience right now yet we've seen no evidence whatsoever of it from either side so it has to go down as propaganda.

Gatling

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think at this stage both sides have been lying, the MOD lied about warning shots not being fired when two journalists and the ships commander said otherwise

I don't think that they did they said and showed you could hear some kind of shooting off in the distance for all we know it was artillery fire on land , there was no fire directed at HMS Defender , definitely no bombs dropped in her path as claimed ,the only evidence we got was a clip of a russian ship firing it's ciws (last ditch anti aircraft/missile system) not uncommon to see from Russia either ,

The traditional and accepted warning shots for naval or maritime vessels is a shot across it's bow ,not last ditch system firing several miles away from a vessel.

What we got was the equivalent of a call out to fight someone in another country on social media

Manic Moran

Freight bandit wrote: »

Plenty of them, the innocent passage,the gunnery exercise and a bcc reporter who just so happened to be onboard...not a good look on the world stage

You did read the article, right? For example, it quotes the legal definition of “innocent passage”, which fits here.

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

They over threw the Ukrainian government and Afghan government (Afghanistan hadn't had a government since the Russians invaded in 1979 ,and didn't have election's until the 2000's )
The Americans didn't over throw the Ukrainian government ............
........
.....
...
..
.

You're having a laugh here...

Freight bandit

Manic Moran wrote: »

You did read the article, right? For example, it quotes the legal definition of “innocent passage”, which fits here.

"show that a mission described by the MoD as an "innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters", with guns covered and the ship's helicopter stowed in its hangar, was conducted in the expectation that Russia might respond aggressively."

Looks like a provocation to me,they went looking for trouble and found it,even invited the BBC....could have been worse for them.

I also find it a bit dubious these secret documents were found at a bus stop and handed to the BBC

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

You're having a laugh here...

What part are you disputing exactly

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

What part are you disputing exactly

That the US had no hand in Ukraine..

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

Looks like a provocation to me,they went looking for trouble and found it,even invited the BBC....could have been worse for them

The HMS Defender ,USS Laboon and Dutch frigate Evertsen which were all close by had enough firepower on board to highly embarrass putin and the Russian navy even on a bad day...

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

That the US had no hand in Ukraine..

Did they overthrow the government no ,did they invade Ukraine no .
Wait remind us who did recently invade and currently occuping parts of Ukraine.....

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

The HMS Defender ,USS Laboon and Dutch frigate Evertsen which were all close by had enough firepower on board to highly embarrass putin and the Russian navy even on a bad day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmfHOPf3YU

The only ones embarrassed here is the UK....pure liars

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

The only ones embarrassed ....pure liars

And yet you have offered zero proof ....


Which suggests only one thing

Freight bandit

Gatling wrote: »

And yet you have offered zero proof ....


Which suggests only one thing

The UKs story on this hasn't been straight from the start...now we have secret documents that turn up at a bus stop ffs....its comical
Don't ask me what they were trying to achieve...looks like amateur hour on board the defender

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

The UKs story on this hasn't been straight from the start...

You cannot back up your claims No ....

So ...

Bass Reeves

Gatling wrote: »

The HMS Defender ,USS Laboon and Dutch frigate Evertsen which were all close by had enough firepower on board to highly embarrass putin and the Russian navy even on a bad day...

To day nothing about maybe a US and UK nuclear sub with conventional ICBM. In Turkey and elsewhere in Europe bomber jets and missiles we'll capable of inflicting serious damage on Russian military infrastructure in the area.
If the Defender wend down so did the whole Russian Navy and Russian defences in that general area.

Freight bandit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

To day nothing about maybe a US and UK nuclear sub with conventional ICBM. In Turkey and elsewhere in Europe bomber jets and missiles we'll capable of inflicting serious damage on Russian military infrastructure in the area.
If the Defender wend down so did the whole Russian Navy and Russian defences in that general area.

Pity they didn't then we could put your opinion to the test,we've already seen how quick the Russian military can move huge amounts of military equipment very quickly when needed something that irks NATO to no end

Discodog

If anyone wants an idea of what's going on this episode of Warship covers a voyage close to Crimea. I assume that Putin has watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djwj-_rs46Q&ab_channel=WarHistoryNerd

Gatling

Freight bandit wrote: »

Pity they didn't then we could put your opinion to the test,

What opinion is that

Muahahaha

Gatling wrote: »

I don't think that they did they said and showed you could hear some kind of shooting off in the distance for all we know it was artillery fire on land , there was no fire directed at HMS Defender , definitely no bombs dropped in her path as claimed ,the only evidence we got was a clip of a russian ship firing it's ciws (last ditch anti aircraft/missile system) not uncommon to see from Russia either ,

The traditional and accepted warning shots for naval or maritime vessels is a shot across it's bow ,not last ditch system firing several miles away from a vessel.

What we got was the equivalent of a call out to fight someone in another country on social media

I agree the Russian claim about four bombs being dropped in the Defenders path is rubbish. But the Commander says his suspicion is that the Russian coastguard fired upon them and the BBC journalist reported shots being fired but they were off target

Commander Owen told the Mail: 'That is the closest I have come to a Russian vessel in my 21-year career. I suspect the gunfire was from one of the coastguard vehicles.

Then when the story surfaces in London we get denials from the MOD who claim they were fully aware of Russian gunnery exercises. But the Daily Mail journalist also reported this

Downing Street insisted Defender was taking the 'most direct' route from Ukraine to Georgia along an 'internationally recognised travel corridor' and was not subject to warning shots fired by Russia. A source acknowledged the Government was playing down the incident to deny Moscow the row it is seeking.

The MODs story of gunnery exercises doesnt add up when the Commander of the Defender is saying he thinks it was the coastguard ship who fired He was there on the scene, the mandarins back in the MOD in London were not but have political reasons for trying to play the incident down.

Gatling

Muahahaha wrote: »

But the Commander says his suspicion is that the Russian coastguard fired upon them and the BBC journalist reported shots being fired but they were off target

The Russians coast guard ship doesn't have traditional naval guns its main armament is ciws rotary cannon which doesn't bang when fired it makes a burrrrrt sound when fired in bursts ,you generally don't get bangs and what sounds like far off explosions like we hear on the BBC video ,
This is why I'm 100% in the belief they didn't fire at the ship and they claimed ,
And the ship never changed course through the situation again disproving the Russians claims that their ships and aircraft chased the vessel away ,the Russians said they will do the same to the Dutch and US naval vessels in the area ,
We've not seen the last of this story

Freight bandit

The Russians are ripping the piss out of the UK on this one...

"In reality, London has demonstrated yet another provocative action followed by a bunch of lies to cover it up. 007 agents are not what they used to be."

"Now, here’s a question to the British Parliament: who needs ‘Russian hackers’ if there are British bus stops?”

"amounts to a “bunch of lies” to cover it up, Russia’s foreign ministry has said."

Muahahaha

So you think the Commander is wrong when he says he suspects the Coastguard ship fired at them? Wouldnt they have defence systems on board to know exactly what was firing at them and where it was coming from? Surely as the Commander of the Defender he knows exactly where it came from meaning his statement is at odds with the tweet the MOD sent out about gunnery exercises.

Id tend to believe the words of the Commander over what the MOD are saying, especially when a source told the Daily Mail journalist that Downing Street are trying to play the incident down for their own political reasons. And thats exactly what the MOD seem to be doing, they dont want to give Russia the row they are looking for.