Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830801#Comment_118830801

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830732#Comment_118830732

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830777#Comment_118830777

If that's your attitude to this crisis do not post in this thread again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830847#Comment_118830847

Its a bad comparison,its Russias new Chechnya

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830768#Comment_118830768

It's not Afghanistan, nor a "crisis".

It's an invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022 with modern weaponry. The Russians have 10k deaths and 10%+ vehicles/equipment losses of their entire invasion force after just 1 month. If that continues, Russia will have very serious issues in 10 months, not 10 years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830842#Comment_118830842

Because I think it is very important to see exactly how they are framing this rather than be told by our media how they see them framing it.

TheTruth89

At this point it must be considered a military defeat for Russia? They have a depleted force with no morale, 0 organization, low on resources and equipment all at best facing into a western backed insurgency which they will eventually lose too.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830871#Comment_118830871

The one thing you'll note about countries like China and Russia, their outward-facing spokespeople are incredibly bellicose and incompetent in communicating with non-domestic media.

Their media landscape being what it is and their political systems being shielded from fourth estate scrutiny, they are completely at sea and unaccustomed to what they see as hostile questioning. Western politicians for the most part are hardened to journalistic rigour - but Chinese and Russian political figures immediately adopt a "how dare you" stance when communicating with the international press. Because, and this is no joke (and apologists should really meditate on this) journalists in China and Russia can end up on a slab or disappeared for doing their job in that way.

A second-order phenomenon is that so bamboozled are they by having to answer serious questions about their government's behaviour, they forget why they are there. They cease even trying to explain their position in terms that come across as credible to a Western audience, so they decide "well, my boss can't fire me if I just go ballistic and nationalistic, and it might play well at home."

Net effect: Western media consumers think they are insane (which sometimes, they might well be as they wormed their way to the top of a deeply corrupt political system) and nationalists at home get their jollies off from a gov. spokesperson "sticking one to the West".

An exception to this is a communicator like King Abdullah of Jordan or the Singaporean PM Lee Hsien Loong, who despite running countries with questionable democratic credentials, are extremely skilled communicators to the international media - putting their points across effectively, even if we may find some of what they say unpalatable to our delicate Western liberal ears.

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828572#Comment_118828572

So Putin should have invaded Ukraine when Trump was in power?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830871#Comment_118830871

Promoting and spreading Russian propaganda is the last thing any sane person should want to do ffs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830794#Comment_118830794

No you didn't miss them at all. I would have taken it that most rational people's default setting would be that they were exceptionally concerned about Ukrainian men women and children.

Nothing was "dragged out of me".

Another disgusting framing of my position that holds no basis in reality.

And then you double down saying I don't question Russia's narrative even though I have said on numerous occasions that they aren't to be trusted but I would like to hear what they are saying.

Accusing me of both sideism when I have clearly said I oppose Russia and support Ukraine.

Fucking hell.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830871#Comment_118830871

They are framing it in out and out lies, I just gave you a bat shít example from Russian State Tv.

Again

The vast amount of interviews from the Kremlin spokespeople are shown unedited on "western media".

Western Media also broadcast unedited Kremlin press conferences from the equivalent of their press secretary?

So again how are they not getting their "story" out?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830922#Comment_118830922

Promoting and spreading any propaganda isn't a great idea. I'd rather know what is being said. Just my opinion ffs

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830952#Comment_118830952

What is stopping you?

It's been broadcast daily.

ronivek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830871#Comment_118830871

I mean the Western focused Russian outlets won’t show you that; they’ll show you how Russia wants to frame it to those in the West who already have various anti-Western or pro-Russian views.

Unless you’re fluent in Russian you’ll also struggle to find what you’re looking for because any subtitle track might not be accurate either intentionally or unintentionally.

The more widely shared stuff is probably accurate but also tends to be the most bonkers stuff; like the angry old Russian men who want to carve a path through Europe to Kaliningrad and lob a few nukes to put the West in their place.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830935#Comment_118830935

I never said they aren't getting their story out. I wouldn't censor or ban their **** propaganda. Present it as it is, even with the banner of "this is russian television as presented. Please be aware that it contains propaganda.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830970#Comment_118830970

You said multiple times we are only getting one side of the story.

That is absolutely false as I have explained to you now several times.

RT is still available if you want to watch, not hard to get it. It's a complete work of fiction, but that's important something something.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830969#Comment_118830969

Fair point.

GM228

https://twitter.com/niktwick/status/1507073705658228754?t=spfdvJeyxscUBMxjkOwFXw&s=19

Perseverance The Second

It's very unfortunate that Russia Today was showing a video of certain ship not too long ago.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1505772419906211840?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1505772419906211840%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-60859337

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830952#Comment_118830952

What is being said IS just propaganda ffs.

You keep saying you want to hear the propaganda but then try to deny it a few words later.

The oddest part of it all is that the propaganda actually is readily available anyway if you look.

You're having an absolute mare.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830239#Comment_118830239

The Russian justification for the attack is purely fictional, so it makes sense that any endings will be fictional as well.

technocrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830952#Comment_118830952

If you agree propaganda isn't a good idea then why do you want to hear it?

Find it a bit ironic that posters who have spent years on here saying that people from places like Syria and their kids should be left to drown at sea are suddenly worried about Russian babies not having baby formula from a company, while also ignoring the fact that that Russia deciding not to export fertiliser or grain is going to have large effects on babies and kids in the other countries that they spend years bashing on here.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830710#Comment_118830710

The difference is that was Afghanistan before, during and after the Russians, and the Americans, and anyone else who tried to rule it. It's always been a conglomeration of valleys and regions controlled by warlords, roughly bound together by faith and a shifting notion of being Afghani, pulled together by any invader who tries their luck. Inside of Kabul where it looked different for a time depending on the imported warlords, that was the norm beyond and the norm it has always reset to. That's one very big reason why they have been near unconquerable for a couple of thousand years.

Ukraine is quite different on pretty much every level. Warlords when present have become governments, extremist ideologies have either been fringe or the mainstream and over the last ten years the extremists have become less popular not more*. Tribalism is down to those of Russian background or Ukrainian and outside flashpoints like Donbas they're often so mixed up together good luck in separating them. Literacy is very high at near 100%(Afghanistan is more like 30%), so unless there was an unbeliveable cultural shift which isn't going to happen they're on par with every other European nation. And they're bilingual. They were like the other ex Soviet states economically, but have been improving there. Corruption which was always a problem has been tackled head on over the last five plus years and there have been improvements there too. Mass proliferation of weapons is about the only comparison that bears much weight, which tends to happen in a war anyway.

*which makes a bigger farce of putin's going in to clear out nazis ballsology. Ukraine was far more far right and neo nazi when his goons were in power and would ya look at that; he didn't invade then.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830768#Comment_118830768

Very telling how you describe what the Soviets did as an "intervention".

It is not a civil war.

You see this is the mindset of Putin who sees the Ukrainians as Russians and not some different ethnic group that would like to have their own state and control their own destiny.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830797#Comment_118830797

How far did Dresden regress in a week or Hamburg?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830797#Comment_118830797

See above.

He can destroy their cities, but it still won't be Afghanistan much as your may spout it trying to instill fear.

You will claim the Ukrainians should just give up, basically bend over and take a reaming from Putin.

Fooks sake what a sad and limited mindset that would forever lie down in the face of adversity.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830923#Comment_118830923

It doesn't seem to be most people's default setting on the Russian propaganda you think deserves a listen to counterbalance the 'unreliable' Western narrative. That is both sides.

So how can we tell when you only seem to challenge specific 'Western narratives' or points like the supply of baby formula to Russia rather than any specific Russian actions.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830487#Comment_118830487

"Human Rights Watch this week released a report after interviewing 32 civilians who had escaped the city.

"Mariupol residents have described a freezing hellscape riddled with dead bodies and destroyed buildings," said Belkis Wille, senior crisis and conflict researcher with the organisation.

"And these are the lucky ones who were able to escape, leaving behind thousands who are cut off from the world in the besieged city.""

Being aware of what people are currently experiencing in Mariupol - freezing, no food, no electricity no water no communications - probably 1,100 women and children dead and buried in the shelter under the deliberately targeted theatre alone. Likely tens of thousand dead in total; having seen photos of the multiple mass graves:

Having seen the photos of the bombed maternity hospital and the poor woman on the stretcher, clutching the wound of her bleeding and ripped apart hip:

and having read of the outcome of that brain searing image:

"A pregnant woman who was injured when a maternity hospital in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol was bombed on Wednesday has died, along with her newborn baby, a surgeon who was treating her confirmed on Monday. 

The surgeon, Timur Marin, told Ukrainian television from Mariupol: "While she was being resuscitated and the anti-shock measures were being taken, we performed a caesarean section and took a child with no signs of life. The child's resuscitation for more than half an hour did not work. Resuscitation of the mother for half an hour or more -- without any results. They both died."...medics did not have time to get the woman's name before her husband and father came to retrieve her body, so she did not end up in one of Mariupol's mass graves."

And then I read about how you are concerned that 'innocent' Russians might suffer from sanctions and will Russian babies get their favourite formula or not, and my head is just spinning with the absolute WTF of cognitive dissonance.

I'm asking myself, is this person even slightly aware of what has been happening in Ukraine: the war crimes, the human suffering the kidnappings, the numerous rapes; like the 17 year old girl who didn't survive the Russian troops gang raping her, the troops shooting people so they can steal their food, the young woman who died in a car riddled with bullets as she was taking food to feed the dogs and cats in an animal shelter she used to work at because she didn't want them to suffer; the mass forced deportations to Russia?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830989#Comment_118830989

I generally believe is what these folks actually mean is they wish more people would believe the propaganda that they themselves have gotten sucked into as it shapes their entire worldview.

EU bad boooo.

America completely bad regardless of subject booo.

Brexit a demonstrable display of pure democracy in action nationalist freedom from shackles.

Trump a man's man people warrior.

Everyone else.... Sucked in by MSM and can't see the reaaal truth.

Or something.

Oh and Russia have genuine concerns for their safety......

JoChervil

The head of the administration of the Kharkiv region, Oleh Syniehubov, informed that the Russians had fired on their own positions. "In the morning, the Russian helicopter 'worked out' its own positions, destroying a huge number of personnel and military equipment of the occupation forces in Mala Rohani. It was these occupiers who constantly fired on the city of Kharkiv," he stressed.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830768#Comment_118830768

The differences again are very wide Sand. The Afghanis living beyond Kabul had feck all leccy, grew their own food, water came frrom wells and had none of the basic services we take for granted anyway. Over the years a village elder lad might have a gennie running of an evening to watch telly. No big loss if it went. Russia or America trying to bomb them into a preindustrial age? Well they were already quite content living there already, thanks very much.

Ukrainians have much more to lose, not least their country. However the support for them in aid militarily and otherwise is near worldwide. In 1980 about the biggest deal for the USSR was not getting an invite to the Olympics and Western arms for the Afghanis took a much longer time to filter into the country. There's no way is thing going to go on for a decade. Afghanistan was Way Over There, Ukraine is Right Over Here, with people that look like the people with pretty much the most military and economic clout on the planet and they're loaning that to Ukraine and denying that to Russia.

JoChervil

As reported by The Washington Post, citing the Pentagon, over the last 7-10 days US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and Chief of Staff Mark Milley have tried to contact Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov. However, Russian military leaders are not making contact, it underlined.