Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Economics101

Looking at FR24 just now there are 4 US plus a Swedish Electronic surveillance aircraft over Poland and Romania, + a tanker or two. This seems more intensive than previously. Antything up?

briany

@Glenomra

Do you honestly believe that. The western world have such short memories. Why today virtually all American media are talking about an incident at the Oscars not about the war.

It's a bit like saying that a man who is recovering from a broken foot, masturbates one morning, and for a few moments forgets about his pain, so that must mean he's over the thing. No, the pain will return. Similarly, a brief buzz about Will Smith slapping Chris Rock does not indicate that concern about events in Ukraine has abated. It indicates that, shockingly, human beings can think about more than one thing at a time.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846324#Comment_118846324

Well, they can certainly ask, but, I'm not sure they will ever get the answer they seek.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846413#Comment_118846413

I'd say they have a very good chance. The same for the stolen aircraft, watches, businesses seized and ships full of grain - all will be able to take Russia to court and demand compensation be taken from Russia's frozen foreign assets. I'd say there is a chance they won't get anything back as the losses and claims will likely exceed the amount frozen.

Of course they likely will try and make them a condition of any peace process so that might mean no one gets compensated.

Seems Sergey Laverov, Russian foreign minister has announced that we’re all effectively banned from entering Russia, as citizens of ‘unfriendly’ countries.

It includes the entire EU, UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and several other places that also make the ‘cool’ list.

Surely the embassy on Orwell Road is a bit unnecessary in that case and I don’t see what we need more than 1 diplomatic rep Moscow for. Whole thing should be drastically scaled back.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846820#Comment_118846820

There's a lot more than that (around 15), pretty much normal of late, most I have counted so far in a single session was circa 30 military planes.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846582#Comment_118846582

Putin is far from being a genius. His mental abilities are like of any mediocre middle level manager in a big company creating a net of cronies. Such people are usually street smart. That's all. They need to create such nets because on their own they are much weaker than average. Companies luckily can deal with them and throw them out, if company stops performing. If not company is usually going down. Some companies are so scared of such people that have a rule even not hiring married couples.

If such net is at the top of the country, so only the whole country can go down with them. It is very difficult to remove such net of parasites. So I suspect a prolonged sanctions will be needed to starve the whole country to finally starve and deal with these parasites....

It's like a whole country taking a chemo to get rid of cancer.

For those of you that think Russia will be welcomed back into the international club any time soon... based on some vague Capitalist reason - You do remember they threatened many western countries with nuclear attack? I don't think that's quite sunk in with some of ye yet. Russia as long as Putin and a few others are in place will remain FUBAR.

DrumSteve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846912#Comment_118846912

Better cancel my trip to Disnyetland

Dohnjoe

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1508432009529540614

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846986#Comment_118846986

Wouldn’t you be embarrassed not to be on that list? I have a feeling this list of nations will be well regarded by history

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846904#Comment_118846904

It's not that simple as saying take them to court and use seized assets to pay for damages, there would be huge legal questions over jurisdiction to start with, recognition of the courts and enforcement of any orders.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846623#Comment_118846623

Anyone commenting on Russians should watch this, its auto narrated in English, which is annoying but it explains the big differences between Russians and the west.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F45i0v_u6s

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845342#Comment_118845342

The problem with that video of Ukrainian soldiers shooting Russian soldiers in the legs is now the Russian propaganda machine will use it to prove to Russians that the Nazis need to be stopped. It will also be shared among Russian troops who are guarding Ukrainian POWs so if they werent getting tortured before this then they more than likely are after that video. The Ukrainian soldiers who filmed and uploaded it to the internet have now put their own POWs in a lot more danger. Like in the video you can see at least one Russian soldier is close to death from bleeding, its unlikely he survived much longer. So the Russians will see that and say its an eye for an eye. The video also thrashes the idea of any Russian soldiers surrendering for the $10k payment, they will see it as a trick now after that so its completely counter productive to Ukraines war effort.

In terms of the information war the video being released is after giving Russia a gift that they will use. Its good that the Ukrainian authorities are going to investigate but its really damaging for those soldiers to release it, their own POWs are going to face the backlash now.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847120#Comment_118847120

Or more likely it was entirely staged by the Russians.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846401#Comment_118846401

I can't believe it either, as Putrid has never done anything so uncivilised before. Unless of course you are so uncharitable and uncouth as to mention poisoning another Ukrainian president - Yushchenko - with dioxin, Litvinenko with Polonium, Boris Nemtsov with bullets, the Skripals with novichok and Nevalny with novichok.

No prior form whatsoever, totally unbelieveable.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847120#Comment_118847120

To say that it gives Russia propaganda material is to ignore that they don't need genuine events for propaganda. They'll just make sh*t up if they have to, and have been doing. The true believers in Russia probably don't need a whole lot of convincing at this stage, and the gullible and the contrarians of the West aren't far behind. I'm sure the alternative voices of the Internet have gotten a fair few flecks of spit on their USB condenser mics over it.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847025#Comment_118847025

Think again: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2014/07/elliott-argentina-debt/

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846937#Comment_118846937

Yes, I cannot see any "reset" of Western - Russia relations whilst the dictator remains in power. He has literally invaded his next door neighbour and started a major war in Europe. The idea that this will be quickly brushed off is very far fetched. Imagine if he had invaded Poland instead five weeks ago - that gives you an indication of the gravity of the situation.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846871#Comment_118846871

I'd say it also indicates that at least in America news outlets have decided the "novelty" of the war is wearing off and people want distraction from something else.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847217#Comment_118847217

There's a huge difference between a hedge fund fighting a foreign state over sovereign debt (in which it was agreed to the courts jurisdiction, Argentina had agreed to be governed by US law, there was a similar ruling in Ghana, but that jurisdiction was not recognised) and Ukraine trying to recoup money from Russia from war.

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847138#Comment_118847138

I considered that it might be staged but now a Ukrainian govt official has come out and said they are investigating it would seem to suggest it is real and not Russian disinformation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847191#Comment_118847191

yeah for sure they will make up propaganda. Not all people will believe it though. But a video like that showing torture of POWs is just giving the Russians what they want. Their propaganda is that Ukrainians are nazis and now they have video footage to back that up by showing the video on State tv, thats the way they will spin it for their domestic audience. The video is not helpful at all to Ukraines war effort and Id fear for their POWs after it came out.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847304#Comment_118847304

How is that any particular revelation? Other things happen in the world and news outlets do a story on them? Anyway, if I look at a stream of CNN, the big story at the top of the hour is... Ukraine. Fox News the same.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847328#Comment_118847328

Well they said they would investigate, all that means is they will try to determine if it is real or not. It might be real, I really don't know. What I do know is that the Russians would have form with staging these types of things, they benefit from it, there is no benefit to the Ukrainians in filming and posting it. So, I would think in this case Cui Bono?

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847304#Comment_118847304

Just because some other news is being reported - even something as frivolous as the Oscar slap - doesn't mean that Ukraine isn't still a major story, and won't continue to dominate the news for a time to come. It's not reasonable to expect that the international press exclusively report on the war, at the expense of everything else. Ukraine was still the top items on Fox, CNN and NBC when I checked today. ABC are leading with the Oscars at the moment (ABC of course broadcast the ceremony in the US), but Ukraine is right there below it.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846401#Comment_118846401

Oh sure some will be for spin, or just 100% understandable caution and paranoia, but after what putin has done to the economics and political and social standing of Russia and her peoples, it seems own goals are very much his thing. To the degree that if I were some of his inner circle at this point I'd be wondering if he's a Ukrainian double agent.

It’s a vicious war, which Russia is solely responsible for instigating. They’ve literally invaded their next door neighbour - again! They are observing absolutely no rules whatsoever - bombing the hell out of cities, killing civilians very deliberately, destroying healthcare facilities, opening fire on fleeing refugees, placing nuclear facilities at risk, using cluster bombs, thermobaric / vacuum bombs and phosphorus bombs, the list goes on and on and on and on.

It’s not acceptable that atrocities happen, but when something that thuggish happened, it’s very easy to see how an vicious response towards the soldiers destroying a country could occur.

It’s important Ukraine doesn’t respond like that and it will play straight into Russian propaganda if they do.

Given some of the level of sophistication of the propaganda coming out of Russia, I would even be a little sceptical of pretty much anything.

However, as utterly unacceptable as those incidents are, if you don’t observe any rules of conflict, you can somewhat expect stuff like this. One side is being held to FAR higher standards than the other by Russian media anyway. Ukraine is literally fighting for its existence against an enormous and brutal army that is just relentlessly pounding its cities into the ground and committing atrocities all over the place. Yet, if they don’t keep the moral high ground they will lose the Russian PR war, which is hugely important and do themselves enormous damage too. Ukraine needs to win hearts and minds in Russia itself against enormous amounts of propaganda. Ultimately that is what will potentially unravel Putin.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846463#Comment_118846463

Natural resources to some degree, their cash is dwindling and their economy was tiny. One very big reason the sanctions against Russia were so swift and so wide ranging is because they were "easy" to sanction. There'd be some blowback like gas, oil and Western investments, but manageble. The world couldn't do that with China, or America, or the EU nearly so easily. It would hurt the sanctioners as much if not more than the sanctioned.

Plus there is trust, even among thieves and corporations. Trust that by the petulant and scarily self destructive actions of Russia has been massively eroded.

If the Western money does go in, and I agree it will, but it'll not be nearly as friendly and it will cost Russia in a big way. Western money has big leverage that it didn't have before and putin gave them that lever.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846768#Comment_118846768

Coal and Enriched Uranium to be pegged against Gold in 3...2.....1

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118847025#Comment_118847025

There is clear precedent for this. The US Supreme court ruled in favour of using Iranian frozen funds to compensate victims of it's actions. If you can't see similarities or applicability, then that's fine. I'm sure we will be reading about compensation cases against Russia for some time, so we will see how it pans out.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/120-nations-accuse-us-top-court-of-violating-law-over-iran-1403333