Russia - threadbanned users in OP

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881587#Comment_118881587

But that is specifically the US, and not NATO who are making the request.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0404/1290408-russian-ambassador-ireland/

Gatling

@GM228 , in fact I believe NATO themselves were accused of breaking the Geneva Convention due to their carpet bombings.

There was no carpet bombing ,in certain areas they used cluster munitions but the majority of the strikes were against military infrastructure and vehicles at the time, before hitting bridges and other economic targets.

Strazdas

Just thinking, can you imagine what would have happened if the Russian had taken Kyiv? They would have killed thousands of innocent people in the first few days.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881676#Comment_118881676

Indeed, wrong wording there, I should have said bombing campaign.

There were plenty of non military targets hit also though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881628#Comment_118881628

Yes, and NATO intervention prevented thousands more deaths and war crimes.

Pity they didn't go in earlier

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881695#Comment_118881695

Have they not already killed thousands of innocent people in the first few days? They didn't need Kyiv to achieve that statistic.

.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881527#Comment_118881527

From the same party who sold Germany's energy independence in return for lining Schroeder's pockets.

The SPDs are little more than the German branch of United Russia.

ronivek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881639#Comment_118881639

I wouldn't expect NATO to use nuclear weapons first no; I was just offering a potential future if NATO were to intervene more directly.

As far as Russia in Ukraine they have now pivoted to a mode of warfare which they should be able to execute to a much higher standard than they have until now. They have numerous advantages in Ukraine's east:

• Entire area is largely outside of NATO's intelligence gathering apparatus (except for satellites) and radar detection areas.
• Entire area is much closer to Russian supply lines over air/land/sea from three directions: north, east, and south.
• Russia can concentrate its air defence to make sure the entire front is covered and Ukraine will struggle to hit Russian supply lines.
• Russia can take its time and utterly destroy any population centre they come to; whilst dominating the large swathes of open land surrounding them.
• Area is very far removed from Ukraine's supply lines which are entirely via land and have to cross from Poland; in fact it is 1,134km as the crow flies from the main military supply origin point at Rzeszów in Poland to Kramatorsk which is supposedly the Ukrainian Armed Forces HQ in the east.
• Mariupol suffered an apparent serious setback today in terms of Russia getting closer to fully capturing the area; freeing up thousands of troops who can push north.
• The static front lines from 2014-2015 are starting to creak and break at numerous points; and in Russia's favour.

So honestly I'm nowhere near as optimistic as you on Ukraine's chances in the coming weeks. Granted I'm a natural pessimist at the best of times...

The other significant issue is the distinct lack of urgency from NATO and the EU in supplying materiel which will actually make a difference to Ukraine. They're still talking about air defences with nothing new in sight; and even the extra drones they promised some 3 weeks ago still haven't made it into Ukraine. Oh and they're also not the drones Ukraine asked for; they're smaller anti-personnel versions which was recently disclosed.

ronivek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881641#Comment_118881641

Yeah I completely get where you're coming from; I guess I was just trying to make the point that when you sit down and think things through coldly there are just no easy or good decisions here. It's all just a load of seething steaming **** no matter what way you slice it.

My immediate reaction on seeing the videos and pictures from Bucha were: let's get NATO in there and **** the consequences. I don't care to live in a world where this type of thing can happen.

The next day I'm sitting here thinking well okay say NATO goes in and Russia starts getting pushed out... what's to say that Russia won't start raping and executing and pillaging all around as they withdraw? As a kind of "**** you" to NATO because they know they're losing but they also know NATO won't go into Russia proper? What chance do the people of Ukraine have in a world in severe recession because of a NATO/Russia war footing, with a stark East/West divide, in a country ravaged by Russian spite?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881712#Comment_118881712

It would have been on a much larger scale. Population of Kyiv was 3m - it's unthinkable what would have happened if they had gotten in there within 72 hours of the invasion starting (and they had Kyiv marked down as the centre of "Nazism" in the country).

AngeloArgue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881641#Comment_118881641

Realistically in a war against Russia Ireland will not be getting involved. We don't have any strike capability. The UK has the trident submarine missile capability in which I believe 215 warheads are on hand. Would France get involved in a strike against Russia? NATO is a defensive pact, but they have been involved in offensive actions before.

In reality any European offensive strike against Russia will play second fiddle to Americas nuclear capability. A all out strike against Russia by NATO will surely destroy them. But the question is what sort of capability does Russia have to retaliate? On paper Russia has a huge arsenal of thousands of silo based and mobile launch ICBMs, submarine and bomber launch systems. The question is how many are working or will be intercepted?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881741#Comment_118881741

But who is to say Russia is not doing that anyway? Russia was always known for having a poorly trained, educated, motivated and disciplined army. Russian soldiers are not known for bothering with the niceties of any international conventions in any conflict.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881723#Comment_118881723

Good post and sadly true.

Winning for the Ukraine might mean a third of the country lost.

ronivek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881754#Comment_118881754

I think it's clearly happening to some extent yes; we have evidence for it from Bucha and various witness statements from elsewhere.

But Russia is currently occupying a number of population centres with many tens of thousands of Ukrainian people who are effectively hostages. Plus however many have been moved into Russia and DPR/LPR from Mariupol and other places. Those are the people I would be most worried about if NATO got involved.

Incidentally a new video has come to light which appears to show Ukrainians executing Russian solders; at least two of which appear to have their hands bound. Not sure if it's supposed to be some kind of revenge for Bucha or what but it doesn't look good; not good at all.

AngeloArgue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881751#Comment_118881751

I should add that the Americans just don't have it in them for an all out offensive war against Russia. Not while they are not under direct attack. There wouldn't be a domestic political support for it. They will supply and they will sanction. I just don't see them prepared to get into a major conflict that could result in significant civilian casualties on American soil.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881768#Comment_118881768

Soldiers vs civilians.

I don’t think they compare.

ronivek

I'm never really sure if I should post these kind of videos here but I do think it's important people can see some of the realities of war if they so choose. And also think it's important not to hide the actions of Ukrainians; even though they are clearly in a fight to defend their country, their lives, their families.

The video appears to show several Russian soldiers lying on the ground in pools of blood; at least one of whom has an obvious head wound. At least one soldier clearly has his hands bound; and a second one also appears to have his hands bound but it's harder to tell for sure.

A slightly longer version actually shows one of the men out of shot firing on one of the men dying on the ground.

This is very graphic and versions of the video contain up to two men dying so be warned:

https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1511075121586483205?s=20&t=_Ajz81AUYrSkm37UAf-bwg

Strazdas

^^^ I'm not that comfortable with the publication of these types of videos. It's lending itself to the "two sides" argument being pushed by the far right in Europe and by Putin supporters. Ukraine and Russia are not 'at war' and were not involved in a major dispute with each other in February that led to war. Ukraine was a neutral state and was suddenly and brutally invaded by its totalitarian neighbour led by a tyrant and without warning - Ukraine are trying to fight off a brutal invasion from thugs with the chief thug being in the Kremlin.

Jeff2

Jeff2

This

https://youtu.be/6vyY4rnJ7lA

BorneTobyWilde

I don't watch those videos, but you mentioned they were Russian, and Soldiers, in war that is fair game, especially when you are defending your country.

It's very different from Russian soldiers shooting , raping, and murdering innocent unarmed women and children.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881807#Comment_118881807

And they're mostly going to be of interest to the Putin supporters and the far right etc. There is no narrative that can be spun that Ukraine is not a victim here or that there are two sides to what is going on. How many Russian civilians have died since Feb 24th.....has there even been one?

BorneTobyWilde

I sometimes wonder who is behind all the brainwashing in Russia, is Putin himself a victim of it, does he truly believe he is fighting Nazi's, he comes across as someone who truly believes in all he is told, but who the **** is feeding the lies, his intelligence agencies are filling him with pure fiction, and he's taking it as gospel.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879606#Comment_118879606

I'd suggest they don't let him anywhere near the teakettle or the biscuits and keep an eye on the same lad even when in the Jacks.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118879672#Comment_118879672

From rhe various reports- It appead that Merkel had almost a schoolgirl crush on putin. Between the blushes and the flowers and the hugs and ardent friendliness you'd be excused that she bought into this psychotic fcuker hook line and sinker

Or maybe I've just read too much into Merkel apparent fascination for this guy.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881844#Comment_118881844

Never seen those photos but they tie in with her actions.

Her actions and demeanor went beyond typical hireling expression.

wandererz

Look, I'm not a bit inclined to investigate the legalities of it all, so I will ask it here:

Is it a war crime to violate Russian POW's with a baseball bat or similar (even when using vaseline, lubricant or whatever animal fat that may be to hand)??

If it is a war crime, is it true if perpetrated only by other soldiers or also if perpetrated by civilians?

Secondly, what about Filatov?

If this were to somehow happen to him, would it be a war crime?

Then again, there's no war going on. It's a "Specialist Military Operation".

What about the other so-called "diplomats" in that part of Orwell Road.

What if a "Special non-Military Violation" were to occur... for example in the restrooms of Cafe en Paris, in Dublin.

What are our legal reprimands in this case if & when the perpetrators are found?

We are a very open country. So if want to feel a Tov or even two, it should be allowed.

If they refuse then it should be a matter of batsky in the first instance to the front followed up by the aforementioned lubricated second instance to the back.

We are Ireland of course, so we can give them a choice... of lube and or type of bat.

I don't see anyone selecting a hurley compared to a baseball bat though.

The infiltration into enemy territory is always difficult indeed. But it is the exfiltration that can be the hardest.

ronivek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118881790#Comment_118881790

My comment about wondering if I should post was referring to the graphic nature rather than the fact it isn't very pro-Ukrainian. I'm not trying to argue for some sort of equivalence between Russia and Ukraine as state actors; merely pointing out that individuals who represent either state can engage in some distasteful behaviour.

We wouldn't tolerate our own soldiers or NATO soldiers executing prisoners; soldiers or otherwise. Oh maybe some would cheer; but as a society absolutely not. Ukraine should be held to the same standard if they want to join the EU or argue that they should have been allowed to join NATO.

And even worse we just had some reported 267 Ukrainian soldiers taken prisoner by the Chechens in Mariupol. What do you think the Chechens might do if they're to see this video, do you think? Are you happy enough for the Chechens to just bind them all, women and teenagers included, shoot them in the head, and let them bleed out while choking on their own blood in the middle of a dirty street?