Russia - threadbanned users in OP

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945428#Comment_118945428

His screen smashed too, so consistent.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945720#Comment_118945720

Seems a bit white-washy to me.. like the bit where they are talking about the Azov Wolfsangel symbol and how it's a pagan symbol and not seen as fascist in the Ukraine.. and never mention how its overlaid over yet another Nazi symbol, the sunwheel.

They might be good fighters but they also had torturers, looters and rapists (Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights) and honest to god Nazis within their ranks.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945720#Comment_118945720

That's a good analysis and one I would largely agree with, particularly on the clear trend in Ukraine politics away from the Far Right since Maidan.

On the other hand the same BBC and other Western press was talking about the presence of the Far Right in pockets of Ukraine for quite the number of years before this Russian invasion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHhGEiwCHZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvXZbRuR4SY

And that's just the BBC, other Western media were also pointing to the Ukrainian Far Right, nationalism, xenophobia and racial attacks and so were Western government and NGO observers. However an outfit like the BBC pivoting from reporting on "the threat of the Far Right in Ukraine" to "military needs trump others" and "well yes a member of the Azov I know has neo nazi views, but sure....". That's quite the pivot and it's one quite naturally pushed by the invasion of actual facists, but hardly unbiased and very much of the current. Not unlike some posters here, who would be banner wavers for the Right On, who would previously had apoplexies over Right wing sentoments in Ukraine, now shouting Slava Ukraine! and the Azov are a great buncha lads as they cheer them on.

Now as usual the Russians are talking utter shíte, which seems to be the only flavour they're capable of talking and as I've said before and have found no Russian supporter who can answer it; if putin was so interested in "denazifying" Ukraine, then why didn't he invade when they were more popular and had far more political power? Actual answer; "nazis" are grand when they're your "nazis".

QV Wagner and groups like Sparta. Russia is chockablock with Far Right groups and sympathies. The anti LGBT laws found easy favour among the Russian population is but one example and racist attacks are not exactly without precedent in Moscow and Russia is a hotbed of antisemiticism too. Russian xenophobia and Far Right tendencies are the clear winner there and by a huge margin.

Two states:

One state who for most before 2022 was a blink and you'd miss it part of Eastern Europe which had been a Russian puppet, corrupt as fúck, with well dodgy Far Right groups and a smouldering and occasionally fiery civil war to the east, who through a popular uprising including those same Far Right groups which were a large part of its success, threw out the Russian puppet, voted in locals, was tackling corruption even in the face of death threats for those doing it, was moving away from the Far Right at the polls and looking West and towards the EU, voted in a Russian speaking Jew to lead them and was trying to change for the better. Now that change had bumps and Zelensky had his own issues too, but it was trying and it's not an easy road.

Versus

An autocratic police state where a tiny minority become insanely wealthy and powerful with control of the economy and production, with no free press, the silencing and murder of dissidents, murderous invasions of other nations to install puppets, mass xenophobia, antisemitism, homophobia, censorship and the glorification of war and the military marching together under a simple symbol painted on tanks, walls and public buildings swearing allegience to one man, the party and the nation, with a complete lack of irony and self awareness? If it quacks like a duck... It's a fúcking duck folks.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945977#Comment_118945977

The right approach would be to encourage Hungary to have a referendum on the matter with a clear question of membership yes/no and with the implications spelt out clearly both ways. If the result is Yes to remaining in EU, that will take a lot of the wind out of Orban's sails. If the answer is No and to leave, who wants members that show constant bad faith.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946027#Comment_118946027

Its been covered here many times already. The politicians that Nazis would typically vote for only got 1.6% of the vote. It’s a non issue.

On a related side note, according to reports, the Azov battalion have been fighting in many places and not only Mariupol. So, they have been watered down drastically, and they are well spread out. So the number in Mariupol may actually be quite low.

Dohnjoe

State preparing a new wave of ultra-nationalists

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1516384753783615488

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946065#Comment_118946065

If it was good enough for the Jesuits...

' Give me a child till he is seven years old,' said St Ignatius Loyola, ' and I will show you the man.'

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946065#Comment_118946065

I saw someone commenting yesterday that this is no Stalinist or Leninist revival or a return to the Soviet Union - it's full on German Nazism of the 1930s.

I'm reading btw that they intend to insert details of the "special operation" into the history text books. There are also plans for the Russian national anthem to be played regularly in schools and that students will have to hand over their mobile phones before classes start.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946055#Comment_118946055

Yes in Ukraine at large it's a non issue, but we're talking about the Azov here.

On another side note the support for Bandera and the OUN in the west is a trickier issue, which isn't being brought up by the Russians surprisingly

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944720#Comment_118944720

I still remember pre-invasion people on here were trying to explain these types of comments as mis-translations and idioms .... Russia 1 is absolute poison... I'm just glad it's getting highlighted as such garbage

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946036#Comment_118946036

I don't think general favourability towards being in the EU is much of a question in Hungary. The position of Orbán appears to be that he wants the country to be part of the bloc, but doesn't agree with everything the EU does and will oppose what he views as attempts by the EU to encroach on Hungary's sovereignty. To be honest, the idea of the EU doing the latter is a common grumble throughout EU member states, but I do think there are times to row in and show unity, and Russia acting the absolute maggot on the EU's eastern flank would surely be one of those times.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946036#Comment_118946036

It's impossible to have anything spelled out clearly in Hungary in the current environment. Orban's buddies own all of the main media. The opposition candidate for PM in the recent election literally got 5 minutes of TV time on state TV (on a weekday morning) during the campaign whereas they were showing entire speeches of Orban multiple times.

If you were to hold a referendum then whatever Orban would want would win in a landslide. Not that he actually would want to leave the EU - after all he's been skimming off large portions of the incoming EU funds via generous contracts to his friends' companies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946065#Comment_118946065

We can't be too far off the stage of public book burnings of Ukrainian novelists in Russia.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946126#Comment_118946126

It goes way beyond a grumble about policies.

He has gutted every single institution in the country which fundamentally goes against the very basic rights of EU membership.

Given recent events, the patience shown is now gone, down on him like a ton of bricks.

All funding pulled, a copy of article 50 sent every day to his office until he either leaves or stops acting like Putin Lite.

Time for the EU to start growing a pair of bollíx.

TheValeyard

Ukrainians definitely holding their ground it seems.

Russia mostly using either artillery or just plain failing to make a breakthrough.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946126#Comment_118946126

Sorry don't think there is much unity there with Hungary under Orbán and he'd take the country right out of the EU tomorrow morning if he could get all the same goodies out of Putin or Xi (he can't - they don't have that amount of money to spare to lavish on him - he and Hungary are just not that important).

As other poster said above, it is not minor differences, Hungary under him has voided many of the promises made on accession now. The reason nothing has been done about it is Poland cynically prevented the EU using its own instruments to take action (these need all other members to agree - they do now bar Poland afair) and I think there's been weak leadership in other member states preferring stability and not wanting to provoke an explosive show down over it (with Hungary and others who might side with them, like Poland) by trying to press the issue and potentially see Hungary exit.

Orbán was afraid to even comment much on the war, let alone make some big waves in the Council by vetoing sanctions while election was pending but he won't care now as he won well and he's secure barring some kind of uprising. Would see his post election comments where he criticised Brussels, the EU sanctions and Zelensky as showing the real face, and he will now try and disrupt any future sanctions. He's also been threatening to break current ones, by having Hungary use rubles for transactions with Russia in accordance with Putin's wishes. Am very pessimistic, I'd say we'll see more of that and some kind of row with Hungary is inevitable.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946000#Comment_118946000

He is not only "one man". He created his own oligarchs net in Hungary. With EU money....

Mecanudo

Skidelsky having his ass handed back to him over Finland joining NATO. See Replies

https://twitter.com/RSkidelsky/status/1515612394562768898?s=20&t=ZtUBLtc_VGKROB_AS0i5uQ

https://twitter.com/ua_parliament?s=20&t=_CisRjxM_-K9iwpuwCCKDw

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946036#Comment_118946036

This new EU you propose doesn't really fit the 'in varietate concordia' model.

What's the Latin for 'take it or leave it'?

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946032#Comment_118946032

RE anit-semitism. An anecdote from work. Large multinational company. Office in Moscow. Doing training. A conversation about a colleague in Moscow office 'oh, no he's not Russian, he's Jewish'.

gandalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946187#Comment_118946187

Already happening, and it happened in the occupied territories in 2014.

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-claims-russian-military-police-are-destroying-their-history-books-1691559

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-east-idUSBREA2F0P220140316

In fact book burning appears to have happened in Russia in 2016.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/14/soros-charity-targeted-in-russia-book-burning.html

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946187#Comment_118946187

yeah that is the huge problem with Orban, he ordered his oligarchs to buy up the vast majority of independent media including newspapers, tv and radio outlets and now he has an iron grip on what Hungarians hear day to day. He has laid much of the groundwork needed to turn Hungary into a dictatorship and the EU have slept walked into this situation. There have been protests from the Dutch and Danish in the EU parliament but no actual unified EU response to his takeover of the Hungarian media. At this stage if Orban were to hold an in/out EU referendum he could easily win it when he has 90% control of the media, the British did it with far less. A Hungary EU exit is exactly what Putin wants.

Orban was also one of the leaders named as buying the Israeli spy system Pegasus which can hack and remotely turn any phone in the world into a listening device.Its the same spy system that Saudi bought and MBS used to hack into Jeff Bezos' Whatsapp messages and leak those naked photos of him having an affair- which then led to Mrs Bezos becoming the worlds richest woman overnight after a $38bn divorce settlement. The same Pegasus system was also used by Dubais Sheikh al Maktoum to hack his wife Princess Haya during their divorce proceedings, thats the same al-Maktoum who had his daughter Princess Lafifa kidnapped not once but twice with our own Mary Robinson getting caught up in the mess. And its the same al-Maktoum who is currently giving Daniel Kinahan refuge in Dubai and refusing to extradite him back to Ireland.

What few independent journalists are now left in Hungary know that their phones are being hacked by Pegasus and the Hungarian secret services are tracking their every move, text messages and phone calls. The same conditions that exist in Russia for independent media now also exist in Hungary, journalists are under a constant threat from the State. Its a really dangerous situation and the EU needs to get a grip on it quick.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946375#Comment_118946375

From what we have seen before they are only capable of making progress if there is little or no resistance. They are not capable of fighting, just bombing from distance.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946092#Comment_118946092

It really isn't full on Nazism, the cultish elements of that were far more extreme. And as for brainwashing using the national anthem, it's no worse than American kids and the patriotic drivel they parrot in school.

Putin's Russia is rotten to the core, but it is neither Nazi Germany nor unique in many aspects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946664#Comment_118946664

Nazi Germany started in 1933 - and it's a fair comparison to the early years. Will Russia go full on raving lunatic Nazi Germany... Hopefully they wont get a chance.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946683#Comment_118946683

Yeah and Putin's been in charge for 20 years, 8 more than Hitler managed. And nor is he trying to conquer the entire continent of Europe. It's an utterly false comparison. Some of the same propaganda techniques, sure. But he's hardly unique in that.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946664#Comment_118946664

It's not the Nazi Germany but not for the lack of trying, they just can't be that focused and effective mostly because corruption, incompetence and bad work ethic.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946664#Comment_118946664

From what I've seen of the nightly propaganda on the TV shows, it's actually worse than Nazi propaganda. I've read quite a few of Goebbels' speeches and several of his biographies and the language used on Russian TV is even more extreme and bonkers sounding than anything he ever said in public.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946706#Comment_118946706

Nah, you need to look up the atrocities his troops are committing and the uber alles Russia commentary we've seen on their State TV. Basically, Russia not being able to defeat Ukraine is enough of a reason for the world to burn. Didn't the one balled mustachioed freak spew similar re the undeserving German people when he was near defeat.

As for ambitions, Hitler wanted living space, Putin wants the USSR back... doesn't have to be the exact same land for the comparison to fit, but I'm sure Putin wouldn't turn his nose up at even more of Europe under the hammer and sickle.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946734#Comment_118946734

Putin could appear on TV wearing a replica Waffen SS uniform and a few people would still say, "Those are Zs on his lapel, not lightning bolts. Not a Nazi."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946771#Comment_118946771

Dammit, to be fair the Nazi's did have the best uniforms... but, I digress 😂