Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071069#Comment_119071069

I’ say u know bloooody well what it means. It is up to the Russians -its leadership - to work on it and to ‘cut its cloth according to its measure’ Russia should not try to be something its not, drop the idea that it is constantly being attacked/ countries constantly planning to attack it, etc, etc,etc.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070709#Comment_119070709

But it is impossible for them to become an open and trusted partner under Putin. He and the regime have burned all their bridges with Europe - he launched all out war on a neutral and peaceful European country without any warning or provocation and the war is still underway months later.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070984#Comment_119070984

I see Wibbs above mentioning the sanctions continuing for quite some time - and it’s kind of what I’d like to see too but yes you’re right to say a crumbling Russia is a dangerous Russia - I guess it all depends on who Putins successor will be and how the approach the west and that’s not looking too good - Nikolai Patrushev seems to be favourite right now but there’s a few others of similar Ilk there with him - we can’t trust Russia for a very long time to come, and that in itself is a very worrying thing

Dohnjoe

So Oryx is the guy (the team) who independently count battlefield equipment losses via visual confirmation only (photo/video). A new captured Russian document details their actual losses during a specific time period. The comparison from this information shows Oryx appears to cover around 77% to 82% of total Russian losses.

TLDR to get a decent idea of minimum Russian losses, take Oryx's totals and add around 25%.

Disclaimer: this is based on one piece of Ru info and may not be indicative of all losses, etc.

https://twitter.com/partizan_oleg/status/1526199389764874240

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071255#Comment_119071255

Well, it looks as though Death the Leveller will take care of Vlad in relatively short order.

And then...we have the same problem, under new management.

Dohnjoe

..

https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1526211300413607938

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071276#Comment_119071276

As somebody or other once said: "trust - but verify".

What is really needed is both mutual incentives (to abide by good behaviour, as we in the West generally do). The success of those incentives will eventually engender mutual trust.

Nobody in 1945 could ever have envisaged that, in the blink of a historical eye, Germany and Japan could become bulwarks of the international order.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071026#Comment_119071026

They have room for their elbows?!

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070940#Comment_119070940

The American leadership are warmongering twats. The actual facts back this up. They've been pummeling into dust and bone little brown people since the 90's and well before that and lying like bastards for the "reasons", when the real reasons were oil, money and geopolitics. The 20th century history of many South American nations has been built on the bloodied corpses of thousands upon thousands of their citizens with American support for vicious dictatorships throughout, and of course the bloody Russkis arming whatever other side there was. Post war Iran. Paraguay. INdochina which turned into the clusterfúck that was Vietnam. Suez. Malysia. Yeman. Korea. Congo. Cambodia. Lebanon. Kenya. And there's more, some more than once and some are still not sorted. Proxy war pricks the pair of them that have killed millions. And this will turn out to be another one. It already is.

This has been going on since the fall of the European empires and the end of WW2. The Russians carved up the east of Europe with their more obvious inlfuence, the Americans did similar in the West of Europe, though less directly obvious, and of course it should be even more obvious which "side" was the better to live under. That said the Americans were very quick to rehabilitate Germany when it suited, because now it was "theirs" and their bulwark against the commies. They were all too happy to pick the brains of previously committed nazis so long as it suited America's ends. The Russians for all their sins, and there were and are many, at least shot the bastards or threw them into gulags.

I would prefer for both the Russians and the Americans to fúck off out of Europe as far as direct influence and Europe ramp up our own defence and wider geopolitics.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071351#Comment_119071351

What you forget here is that both Germany and Japan were utterly defeated (humiliated) - they had to have a real good talk to themselves to see where they went wrong. It was a sea change. From what I've read of what you have said you're not advocating this.

TheValeyard

Not sure if this was shown here or not. But been following this guy's account. Absolutely brilliant stuff.

Curious_Case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071157#Comment_119071157

I think so too.

The only thing a chain swinging, bandana wearing, punk such as Putin understands, is the Crocodile Dundee approach.

Dem be metaphors, folks. No need to inform me that Putin doesn't wear a bandana, etc.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071399#Comment_119071399

Nobody would advocate trying to inflict total defeat on Russia, for the small detail that this would literally mean the end of all life on the planet.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071385#Comment_119071385

I'd like if Europe would step up but it won't be happening any time soon. Entire political systems have been shown to be compromised. The weak-willed, lily-livered politicians are great while they have NATO to take care of everything. Yes, ideally the yanks would **** off but without them "rehabilitating" Germany where would Europe be now? If NATO stopped existing in the 90s where would be be? The Eastern Europeans and Baltics are the ones who have history and know all about Russia first hand, I'm sure they're pretty glad of the US influence right now. Finland and Sweden are looking at what is happening and also listening to their population who seem to be happier to join NATO now. Germany meanwhile sandbagged even as their population seemed to be ready for more.

Yes, ideally the yanks would have no influence beyond their own shores but in the real world thank **** the Ukrainians hung on long enough to get the yanks onside. Because even the yanks have a cost/benefit to do and had Ukraine just slipped away then what, they're going to step up for Moldova in a few years? Georgia whenever they go in again? Nah, just more Russian creep towards the Balkans and Turkey while the Germans shrug and say everything is fine. And you know this, this war isn't the end. Any outcome relying on Russia's word is worthless to anyone other than Russia.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071399#Comment_119071399

This is it. Also the Germans had a historical culture/society to revert to. And some Asian culture is quite different from most of the world when it comes to top-down stuff. Both were comprehensively defeated and given a pretty simple choice. And guess what, they behaved properly for a while and reaped the benefits. What does Russia have to switch to? Go back to famines and food shortages? Keep the paranoia they had since the day of the Czars? It's a criminal enterprise that people hoped might chill the **** out and once welcomed into the fold would benefit from its massive natural resources and geography. They didn't. And anyone pointing it out was a US oil shill or CIA shill.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071424#Comment_119071424

In that case your comparison fails.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071399#Comment_119071399

That cannot happen with Russia. The nukes will prevent it. In any case (IMO) it is probably more likely to eventually blow into multiple bits, than hang together as it is today for a dose of "humiliation". Some of those bits could be very poor & weak, but could have control of a load of nasties, nukes, biological weapons, chemical weapons you name it. A gaggle of new Pakistans maybe?? That is not a great/hopeful picture.

The US was very worried about the doomsday weapons of the Soviet Union and put a huge effort into containing them, making sure they didn't proliferate and the weapons know-how remained relatively contained too (keeping the weaponeers/scientists etc. paid and in jobs).

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071467#Comment_119071467

Not particularly.

Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan suffered total defeat and occupation. Russia will not. That is a point of difference.

But the overall point is that countries that had odious regimes can be turned into countries that make a positive contribution to human existence on this planet. They just need help and incentives.

josip

Orban well latched onto the EU tit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/hungary-sanctions-russian-oil-embargo-eu

whilst having no qualms about biting the nipple.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071622#Comment_119071622

I hope he gets nothing. It's disgusting really. Would like to see the other countries give up on Hungary, try to get Poland on side to strip their voting rights and then they can be ignored, and the new sanctions "packages" can go through.

The veto on such matters is a curse on the EU also. It is becoming more unsustainable as EU grows in size, and also the environment surrounding the EU members in the wider world seems to get more hostile each year, and needs agile decisions at that level.

It's not the 90s or 00s any more, that is for sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071535#Comment_119071535

But without the utter failure of the regime what's the impetus for change... answer, there isn't. The reason the USSR changed so much for a period of time, was because the USSR was defeated and humiliated, just not utterly. Anything else will be a half baked reaction.

Do I think Russia will be humiliated... I wouldn't allow them back into the civilised world until they denuke... same as NK. If they don't then... leave them stew.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071428#Comment_119071428

We cannot get back into the weeds of equivocation, here. Russia behave far worse than the USA do, and Eastern Europe's aversion to coming back under the Russian sphere of influence should be taken as testament to this fact. I'll take the U.S. helping keep that at bay all day long even if they're doing other things I don't agree with, like propping up Saudi Arabia or the subjugation of Palestinians. The U.S.'s hegemony is vastly better to be under than the current alternatives on offer. China and Russia can F off away with themselves. The amount of insidious influence they already have in the West is bad enough.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071424#Comment_119071424

Any country can be defeated and not - in this day and age- necessarily by conventional war as is going on in Ukraine at the moment

. A defeated country, IMO

, is one that has reduced , zero international influence;

, not powerful enough to invade another country;,

has a very weakened economy, ;

most/ all countries carry’s out little or no business with it,

little or no social interaction

, international flights to and from it kept to a minimum,

membership of all international , including political, security and sports org cancelled,

etc, etc, etc, etc.

SO, YOUDO NOT NEED TANKS/ CONVENTIONAL WAR to achieve the above. Relevant sanctions are the new suite of weapons.

it may take a little longer to achieve one’s aims but there would be little or no deaths, reduced cost of this approach in certain areas eg refugees, concentration of human and other resources more appropriately targeted ie no refugee problem to contend with, no war to fund and all the Human Resources caught up in it, etc

so IMO Russia CAN be defeated

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071535#Comment_119071535

The days of occupation is over realistically but what will happen to Russia will be far worse complete isolation from the rest of the world and hatred for there people.

And tbh it's well deserved

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071724#Comment_119071724

You don't see any downside risks here?

Dohnjoe

Even hardcore pro-Russian military bloggers losing patience and demanding answers regarding their military, especially the river crossing disasters (NYT article linked in the tweet)

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1526010433760550913

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071724#Comment_119071724

I think all the gas will mean they won’t be completely isolated for the next few decades anyway. It’s just too much of a vital resource.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071428#Comment_119071428

The yanks are far better and far more reasonable than alternatives like Russia and china I'm glad they are the world power and not vice versa because we would be far worse off for it.

As for Europe stepping up and militarizing not likely there is no patriotism towards Europe by the nations under the flag if it stopped being a benefit most nations would leave it. Like it or lump it the yanks are the best we ve got in terms of world order.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071738#Comment_119071738

"Your military's absolute gash."

EltonJohn69

Like a really sh1t Avengers…