Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657924#Comment_118657924

Looks like American propaganda is working.

The Ukrainian president himself as well as many international observers speculated that the USA have recently been spreading these irrational fears of imminent invasions and have been extremely exaggerating the conflict due to the NordStream project, when asked why he believed the USA was suddenly starting to stir up the conflict the Ukrainian president said

"This is speculation, but the US might still try to undermine the Nord Stream project, the pipeline between Russia and Germany, There is a very clear economic interest there are gas producers in the US who are direct competitors with Russia."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657956#Comment_118657956

Here's the trouble and I literally was saying it to someone yesterday, you don't need the support of a majority to do anything, even in a democracy. The US president generally needs about 33% of voting-age people to vote for them. When it's multi-party it's more like 25%. If you can convince another 25% that there is no such thing as truth, but also that the truth doesn't matter then you're flying even without cheating in elections.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657982#Comment_118657982

Depends on whether the analysis driven by a motive or a conclusion already reached. In those cases, yes, relying on ad hominems as you suggest, is acceptable, I suppose.

Observing that the leaders of the world's two largest weapons manufacturing countries both appear to be suffering the effects of old age and that this poses a risk to us all, is a matter of fact. Twist it how you wish.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657956#Comment_118657956

Not sure any people want to see body bags returning in any country. Notwithstanding Biden's agitating for war, if US troops become embroiled (unlikely) he'd have a big problem on his hands, his general poll ratings are really low and indeed there's low enough support for his handling of this situation, unsurprisingly he has higher support for his stance among Republicans, they like a good war as we know!

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658014#Comment_118658014

Not sure about your conclusion. The Biden administration is running rings around Putin currently. This plan of making public all their intelligence is highly effective in exposing the Russian playbook. It's very impressive.

MFPM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657935#Comment_118657935

TBH I think you're badly misreading the French and Germans, they had to harden their rhetoric because of the Yanks but their position hasn't altered in my view, Russian energy is too important to them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658008#Comment_118658008

What have U.S. statements got to do with The Foreign Minister of Germany warning Russia that if the troops who are undeniably massed on the border of Ukraine invade then energy supplies from Russia to Germany will be stopped. That is an independent nation warning Russia of the consequences for them of destabilizing Eastern Europe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658042#Comment_118658042

No reasonable person thinks that Germany or France are puppets of the U.S.

This line of debate just leaves you looking foolish and undermines any legitimate points you may wish to add on thread.

TheValeyard

The Occupation leaders in Donetsk really are pushing things at the moment. Faking car bombs, attacks on Chlorine facilities, cutting off water supplies, shelling Ukrainian positions, and now claiming civilian casualties from saboteur attacks. Now they also claim to have found a Ukrainian invasion map.

This is totally been used by Russia as a reason to invade.

The Russian Separists continuing to act up will make it difficult for Russia to step back without losing face.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658033#Comment_118658033

I come at it from a different angle: I don't give a feck which MIC or 'great power' administration is outsmarting another or dominating the battlefield or winning hearts and minds. I do care about (in order) civilians and serving military and the waste of life and opportunity. And I care about out little country surviving a world with giant violent trolls like Russia, China, the U.S., France, U.K. et al. in it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658038#Comment_118658038

What the **** are you talking about?

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658052#Comment_118658052

Who are you to tell what reasonable people think, and how future posts from a poster will be perceived?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657973#Comment_118657973

Several times in the past Raoul, there have been attempts to get rid of Vladimir, and they all failed because he ruthlessly cracked down on them. So even if there were mass demonstrations against invading Ukraine, he would use the same tactics. Question is would that tactic still work if body bags start coming home in increasing Nrs?? And despite all the suppression of external news media, there's always a certain amount getting through. This is one big gamble for him...

TheValeyard

Think he's gambled and already lost. Dont think he expected such a response from the Western world.

Invades, he will suffer

Dont invade, he will suffer

@HerrKapitan

@HerrKapitan Who are you to tell me who do I think I am... do you see where that argument is going. Do you have any credible evidence to show that France and Germany are puppets of the U.S.

If so, please share, otherwise you will have to accept that France and Germany are not U.S. puppets and are independent sovereign nations which are not in the thrall of the U.S.

All_in_Flynn

Even Boris Johnson is making a show of Putin. That must be tough for Putin and his followers to take.

Putin has turned this into a no win situation for himself now and it's the Russian and Ukrainian people who are going to suffer.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657359#Comment_118657359

No, MFPM didn't mention those bits! He is

a murderous kleptocrat bent on destruction of democracy in Europe and America

according to O'Toole and

thuggish shapes are being thrown not just at Ukraine but at small countries to which Ireland is closely allied in the European Union: Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

In another post MFPM says Russia has a right to "point out how their security is potentially compromised by a particular organisation such as NATO". Very lawyerly.

They've been doing a sight more than "pointing out" such differences with Ukraine and/or the US/UK/EU over last half decade or so. The aggression towards Ukraine has been gone into in detail on thread already. Maybe Putin would have gotten further in obtaining what he wanted there with a honey rather than a vinegar policy post maidan, but all seems too late now.

Nothing about various tactics Russia has used on EU countries and the US/UK. Some of the worst of it edges towards acts of war. e.g. sending men to assasinate a persona-non-grata and using such an indiscriminate and nasty weapon that they contaminate a large area and kill civilans, passenger aircraft becoming "collateral damage" during your proxy wars. The latter was likely carelessness or recklessness, but as in Salisbury perhaps that ends up being part of the message. We'll do what we want/need to attain our goals and we don't care who or what gets hurt in the crossfire so stay out of the way. I suppose it is "pointing something out" in same way as a violent criminal delivering a beating or murdering someone is just "pointing something out".

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658010#Comment_118658010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658010#Comment_118658010

Actually there was a post ( several pages back) where a poster gave a very good description of how Putin keeps and holds power. His chief mastermind is an actor, who is a bit of a genius at manipulating masses of people. He supports different organizations, even ones opposing each other, but he is the puppet master who pulls the strings. He is credited with causing a lot of the friction in the US elections, sowing doubt and confusion, and also the same thing with Brexit. But you would have to read the post ( I'll see if I can find it again) Or maybe the poster will read this and repost? Well worth reading it again.

As for the election Nrs, you are right. And you don't have to go any further that this Country to prove that. I agree that our "Democracy" is largely an illusion, but at least it gives an electoral process, and change is possible. So it's a whole lot better than a murderous dictatorship.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657999#Comment_118657999

Yeah but I'm happy to be influenced by America and democracy

The Russian Administration or China isn't

Imagine having to consult the population on matters when you can just jail or poison them instead

It would be a terrible nuisance.

Shao Kahn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12t9sBQR7Og

Even some of the democrats are capable of seeing the wood from the trees here.

For the sake of peace and security in the world, we really need to hope more leaders wake up and recognize the true nature of what is going on here. More common sense is needed, and less irresponsible warmongering rhetoric.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658154#Comment_118658154

We have a lot of problems, and I don't like the direction the country is going but it's still better than what's happened in Russia. It's actually genius as well when they straight-up say something they know isn't true and they know everyone knows it and everyone knows they know. There's almost like a cringe reaction to it, like it just isn't a logical way to behave. But it works. And it goes back to well before Putin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658175#Comment_118658175

OK so for "peace" everyone should just allow the Russians to do whatever they like and not even point it out?

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658175#Comment_118658175

It's quite clear to anyone who can take a balanced look at the situation that the USA clearly want a conflict in Ukraine so they can introduce economic sanctions and counteract increasing Russian economic ties with Western Europe, especially with Germany such as the NordStream project.

If 'we' is Ireland, we should be organizing humanitarian assistance to Ukranian and Russian civilians caught up in this power play. Also streamlining visas for displaced Ukranians that want to come to Ireland. We should also offer streamlined visas for displaced Russians from Eastern Ukraine that would rather come to Ireland than be shoved off into to Russia. (Reasonable numbers of course for both sets.)

All 'we' have is gesturing.

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658215#Comment_118658215

I think the Irish government has already made it clear that Ireland's part in this war is to vigorously condemn Russia so that we can get some brownie points from the USA. We are unlikely to start actually helping the people of Ukraine.

Fiery mutant

This guy has some good information.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658245#Comment_118658245

False flags can be expensive since Putin is stealing all the money

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658225#Comment_118658225

It's frightening how Americanized the Irish political and media establishment has become. There is more vibrant and open critique of the USA/D.C./the MIC in the USA than there is in Ireland. Our island is fast becoming an overseas territory of the Democratic Party. What business have Irish people cozying up to imperial powers of any stripe, anyway, be they Russian, or American? They are free to do so, but it just seems so ahistorical.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118658273#Comment_118658273

I am more frightened by the brainwashing from Russian and Chinese disinformation.