Russia - threadbanned users in OP

electric_sleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261776#Comment_119261776

Unlike most of the doom scrolling arm chair generals on this thread, I have actual relatives in Ukraine and am deeply familiar with the situation there, having watched it unfold over the past 15 years or so. Unfortunately most of my relatives and friends there are the 'wrong' type of Ukrainian, being partially or fully of Russian ancestry, and I have watched/listened as the Ukrainian far right grew in power and influence to the point where, after the 2014 coup, far right talking heads were actively calling for genocide against Russians on Ukrainian news channels. Imagine that, people calling for the deaths of 1.5 million people in the Donbas because they are deemed unnecessary. I've watched as Asov, C14 and their ilk have engaged in pogroms against Russian speakers, LGBT peoples, Roma gypsies and so forth.

No one speaks for the people of Donbas, no one cares about those Ukrainians who have been persecuted. Putin is in this war on the pretext of caring about those people, but truth is he doesn't or he would have intervened a long time ago. This is bad guy vs bad guy, with innocent people in the middle. Putin and the regime are murdering scum, as are the Kiev regime backed by the USA and co. I don't think Zelensky is a bad guy, but he's also not the one pulling the strings, he's just a mouthpiece. The true power lies in the military, which is run by white supremacists.

As for what could be on the table for peace talks, I'm guessing the Donbas, land bridge to Crimea and Ukraine never joining NATO would appease Russian interests. Ukraine can sue for security guarantees as well as a reconstruction fund. Ukraine can then lick its wounds and fortify itself. As long as they don't start trying to ethnically cleanse what remains of Ukrainians Russian population again all should be ok. Ukraine sealed its faith when it allowed a far right group to spearhead a coup and worm its way into the military and police.

Whatever stops people dying has my vote. A sizeable chunk of Ukrainians in the DPR/LPR regions are pro Russian anyway, plus Ukraine has called for the genocide against ethnic Russian Ukrainians publicly as I've witnessed over the past 8 years so sentiment is pretty anti post coup Ukraine, even if not Pro Russian. People want to get on and live their lives, they can do that as easily in Donbas if it's part of the Russian Federation. Screw your 'righteous' indignation, there are people dying by the hour there and a peace treaty needs to be hammered out ASAP.

It's not black and white, good vs evil. It's murdering regime vs murdering regime.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256233#Comment_119256233

There is a valid argument that Communist countries have only ever lasted or prospered in countries that have an Empire mindset, imperialism deep and old in the culture. An acceptance and expectation of conformity and brutality for not doing so.

The mindset required to be a Communist apparatchik is the same as an imperial administrator.

electric_sleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262012#Comment_119262012

If you don't know what that is, you are not qualified to have an opinion on Ukrainian matters as you are completely ignorant of the history, and political situation there,.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261629#Comment_119261629

Ukraine will be fighting to the last Ukrainian even if they threw down arms now.

Russia has its objectives and, like so many times before when they were in Ukraine that ensuring control by extermination.

Russia will kill because it is in its strategic interest to do so. It's not personal, just business

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261769#Comment_119261769

By the time the west/Ukraine/NATO are finished with ye then any Russian left with a pot to piss in will think they have "arrived"! Even the McHorsemeat burgers that ye are now having to eat will be culinary delights for ye.

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258950#Comment_119258950

Question is, who will replace Putin? Someone similar or maybe someone even far worse. Russia is a mafia with a state and not a state with a mafia.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262148#Comment_119262148

We're not all sad little men credulously lapping up Kremlinite press releases.

The really sad thing is you think you have figured out something but the part of your brain that processes higher order information has atrophied into congealed mush.

TASS could issue a press release that the Easter Bunny has been spotted around the Hermitage with a suicide belt speaking Ukrainian and you'd be on here repeating it like a rube.

As I said to another poster, you either know you're pushing fascist b*llshit, or things have gotten so bad for you that you're completely unaware you've transformed yourself into a useful idiot.

Both scenarios are as bad as each other and you deserve all the derision and mockery coming your way.

Also, be honest with the thread, you're a re-reg of another poster that got manhandled right?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261723#Comment_119261723

Or maybe Boris actually sees what Putin is doing is do wrong that he does the right thing.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262228#Comment_119262228

"The part of your brain that processes higher order information has atrophied into congealed mush" !

Ouch! Has to be best line in this thread.

electric_sleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262228#Comment_119262228

I rarely read or watch Russian news, it's quite frankly nuts. I watch some Ukrainian news via some channels on Kartina TV and it's more or less as crazy, just in the opposite direction.

I get the vast majority of information about the political situation in Ukraine from western news balanced against what people in Ukraine and Crimea tell me, having extended family there. I trust what people on the ground say far more than any partisan news outlet such as RT, or the Beeb who are both obviously playing a side. I find it pathetic that so many people like yourself, who haven't a clue about Ukraine have so many strong opinions about it and attempt to silence people who actually know what they're on about because it doesn't fit the little narrative you've built in your head, of glorious morally superior Ukrainian supermen defending themselves from the Orcish hordes of evil Ruski raping scum, with the support of the great exporters of freedom and democracy.

You've no idea what people in Donbas have had to put up with or listen to from their own government and media since the lunatics took over Ukraine. You've a LOT to learn about the world and based on reading your posts I'm almost certain you're totally incapable of processing that much reality, people like you need a simple narrative.

So to spell it out, I support the people of Ukraine who have suffered at the hands of their own government, a government who let right wing militias and vigilante groups run amok these past 8 years or so, armed to fk by the USA and co. People who now have Russia steam rolling through their towns and villages and if, once Russia takes their town, anything is still standing, the Ukrainian military levels it for optics to the west so they can appeal for more assistance. This is dirty war, like all war, no one is telling the truth and young soldiers on both sides, and innocent people in the middle are getting churned through the meat grinder.

The ONLY way forward is peace talks which the entire international community needs to be demanding, NOW. People need to stop being killed and hysterical people like you need to shut up.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

Right so we are well aware of what has been happening the last 8 years in the Donbass.

What kicked it all off?

Would it be Russia and their illegal invasion of the Crimea?

So go in on waiting to hear how that was actually the Ukrainian governments fault.

I have a relative married to a Ukrainian also.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262115#Comment_119262115

Only so much of that I could read. Quick question... how many ethnic Russians died 4 months before and after Russia invaded? The Donbas regions should be negotiating with Putin to withdraw... he's using them as bullet catchers.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261212#Comment_119261212

That is why the Ukrainians say they must fight and the west needs to fully understand this.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262159#Comment_119262159

Russia will kill because it is in its strategic interest to do so. It's not personal, just business

How is it in Russia's interest to kill all Ukrainians?

opinionated3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

You're forgetting one crucial aspect. The Russian scum invaded a sovereign nation. They and only them are to blame for this. Their soldiers are rapist's and terrorists. The proof is there right before your eyes, you just love Putin so much your blind to it all.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

Lots of commentary from you on Ukraine and the Ukrainian government, but what's your opinion of Vladimir Putin and his regime?

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262212#Comment_119262212

The question of who will replace Putin is an inevitable one unless they get that head in a jar technology from Futurama rigged up and made reality. Also, the idea of someone worse than Putin - I might ask how much worse it could get at this point. Putin is openly hostile towards the West and seems intent on shelling Ukraine to a fine powder, if he can. The only way it gets worse is to openly declare hostilities on the Baltics and start lobbing the nukes, but that would be a strategy that no matter how bad the leader is after Putin, it would be self-annihilating insanity.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262115#Comment_119262115

Do you mean victimised like the current president of Ukraine , (who's first language is Russian , ) I'd agree it's been shite for the residents of the donbass and eastern Ukraine (like many economically depressed, industrial and post industrial areas,) ... Especially since 2014 , it's been a war zone since then , then it got worse In February - and it's gotten even worse again since ordinary ethnic Russians/ Russia speakers have been co-opted and force conscripted Into the army by their Russian masters ..

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262413#Comment_119262413

Removal of opposition but it doesn't need to kill all, it can just kill those who oppose it, culturally, politically, socially, nevermind militarily.

This is not some fresh departure for Russia and Putin,by a vast margin, remains a very nice and easy going man compared to Soviet leaders.

Russia have always operated at a strategic level rather than tactical, it means they often mess up early in wars, often pay horrendous cost in terms of their economy and lives but they are willing to do that.

Whether Ukraine fights back or not doesn't change their strategic goal. It impacts tactics.

Dubh Geannain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262413#Comment_119262413

Does Putin want to recognise Ukraine and want to survive as a successful independent state?

No he does not. He has said he doesn't recognise Ukraine as a state so his regime is attempting to kill all things Ukrainian. The history (book burnings), the currency, the future, the people. To expunge Ukraine from the record it is in his interests to kill all Ukrainians unless they accept that they are Russian.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262212#Comment_119262212

In the context of current events not being Putin they would have a chance to reset things, maybe even abandon all of this.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

As I understand it, separatism was, for years, stirred up by Russian agents in E. Ukraine and that might explain Ukrainian hostility towards the separatists. (I can understand why they would be hostile if separatists were threatening Ukrainian sovereignty.) Do you have any insight into this? Thanks in advance.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262485#Comment_119262485

Navalny, who will never see outside of jail again, presuming he is still alive, is Putin's most noted opponent and a hardline supporter of invading Ukraine.

As a Historian said Britain had an Empire but Russia is an Empire.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

Oh I'm very sure you have "an extended family in Ukraine" and a laundry list of pro Russian partisans in Donabs and Crimea who are all singing off the same hymn sheet.

The wonderful thing about an outlet like boards for head-the-ball propagandists like you is you can make up any old palaver about your massive list of contacts in Ukraine who all agree with your nonsense word-for-word and it's completely unverifiable (as well as not credible on first inspection).

I also love your presumption about my level of interaction and knowledge about that part of the world. It's greater than you think, but I don't go shouting it around the thread as it's impolite.

I'll repeat, you going to fess up to being a re-reg account?

zv2

Again...

https://twitter.com/Kiborgzzz/status/1541788797008056323?s=20&t=Qe6DMoVCNXJTNkn8w03yCg

Yurt2

You'll get your peace talks when the Ukrainians and the West have decided enough Russian invaders have been kerbstomped, and the Russian military morale had suitably collapsed.

And not a moment before.

zv2

Well I guess this clears up any doubts-

https://twitter.com/Chronology22/status/1541788627323215872?s=20&t=Qe6DMoVCNXJTNkn8w03yCg

electric_sleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262405#Comment_119262405

The Ukrainian protests and the coup which PRECEDED the Crimean invasion is a good place to start, but if you want a proper picture you need to look at the various mini uprisings such as the orange revolution and the right wing movements within Ukraine, particularly West Ukraine and how those were nurtured by likes of the NED (USA). Look back at Ukrainian history, and the independence movements and their uncomfortable relationship with the far right.

Ukrainians had a very legitimate protest (Euromaidan) in 2014, against their corrupt pro-Russian puppet president not signing the agreement with the EU. I myself supported the EU agreement and was looking forward to a Western facing Ukraine, when it wasn't signed I was devastated because I hoped it would make it easier for my relatives to come to Ireland. When the protests started I supported them. Unfortunately this movement was hijacked by the far right who threw the government out on its ear and immediately began a pogrom against ethnic Russians in Ukraine, including the Odessa massacre (right wing Ukrainians burnt 48 people alive in the trade union building in Odessa, one of which recorded it on his phone and is now an MP in Ukraine). Crimea would be another Donbas if the Russians had not of annexed it, and people there breathed a sigh of relief when they did (If you are familiar with Ukraine you would know that they jokingly called the right wing groups coming to Crimea to toss out the government 'peace trains')

The pre 2014 Ukrainian government, corrupt or not, was elected. Part of East Ukraine did not want to be ruled by the Banderite's who seized power so formed a rebellion, which Russia was only too happy to oblige having its own imperial motives.

Russia are not innocent in this, and are the aggressors today, but they did not initiate this conflict in Ukraine (referring the 8 year old conflict). The far right in Ukraine has been laying the groundwork for a new Ukraine, free of Russian influence (sounds noble until you realise the mean ethnic cleansing.) the Americans were only too happy to assist, just like they did with the Mujahideen all those years ago. What's bad for Russia is good for the USA.

Russia invaded Crimea as a response to the far right takeover of Ukraine. There is no denying that the coup happened first. If you doubt it was a far right takeover then why did they hang portraits of Stepan Bandera in government buildings when they kicked the old guard out? If you are truly familiar with Ukraine you would know this, you would have seen this or at least been told about it by Ukrainians.

So who is the aggressor here? Russia, Post 2014 Ukraine and the USA. That's who, the lot of them. And who is the victim? every Ukrainian, but particularly East Ukrainians. Ordinary Russians are also victims in this to a much lesser extent, because through no fault of their own they are now international pariahs. This was done to them by Putins regime.

The victims are not being helped as long as we pretend that the Ukrainian government and the far right is clean in this, all facts need to be on the table. The world needs to see the monster that we, the collective 'west' is supporting as well as the monster they are fighting against. There is no 'good' side here. The Ukrainianes are just as vicious as the Russians, and if it was only the Russian military/state they were targeting it would be fair game, but they've been targeting the ethnic Russians (14000 dead before the Russians invaded, mostly on the pro Russian side, killed by the likes of ASOV and the Ukrainian army).

if you have a human bone in your body and care about Ukrainians you would care about the children of Donbas persecuted for the original sin of having Russian ethnicity for 8 years. If you have a human bone in your body you would not support Putins war, nor would you support the Ukrainian army that incorporates far right militants into their army and political system.

Far right isn't just a political tag in this context, it means people who actively engage in ethnic cleansing.

The sooner Putin and Kiev are forced to the bargaining table the better it will be for civilians in Ukraine.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262374#Comment_119262374

There's a lot of personal investment in these viewpoints, some of it by the looks of things strongly based on your own convictions. Deep breaths and a long pause from the keyboard do help people not to get too hooked into the twists and turns of this thread. At present all you seem to be doing is riling both yourself and others up.

TheRepentent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261760#Comment_119261760

lol 🤣Have to ask....what does the Moscow Midgets coc taste like ? I'd ask Trump but he's banned off twitter